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Garrioch: Penguins pursuing Gonchar

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Old
12-25-2012, 08:51 AM
  #101
BK201
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Ottawa needs defense with Cowen out with season ending surgery.

It would have to be for a defenseman. Martin would probably fit our system well. I would do it but I'd think we'd get comp'd for a cap dump.

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12-25-2012, 09:01 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Ottawa needs defense with Cowen out with season ending surgery.

It would have to be for a defenseman. Martin would probably fit our system well. I would do it but I'd think we'd get comp'd for a cap dump.
In all honesty, if Martin is the best offer, I'd rather keep Gonchar, lose him for nothing as a free agent, and find a replacement in the UFA market.

With the cap ceiling expected to fall, we can find MUCH better value for $5mil on the open market than Paul Martin.

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12-25-2012, 09:25 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
In all honesty, if Martin is the best offer, I'd rather keep Gonchar, lose him for nothing as a free agent, and find a replacement in the UFA market.

With the cap ceiling expected to fall, we can find MUCH better value for $5mil on the open market than Paul Martin.
Good luck. Might have better results via trade. Free agency is a ****show.

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12-25-2012, 09:38 AM
  #104
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Good luck. Might have better results via trade. Free agency is a ****show.
It is at the moment, agreed, but I get the feeling it's going to be less of a ****show once the cap comes down as we approach the inevitable 50/50 revenue split.

I don;t think you're going to see the ridiculous Matt Carle contracts anymore. That's just me prognosticating, though. I could be totally wrong, but somehow I doubt it. There's going to be a market correction, it's just a matter of how much of a market correction UFA-day has.

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12-25-2012, 09:43 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
In all honesty, if Martin is the best offer, I'd rather keep Gonchar, lose him for nothing as a free agent, and find a replacement in the UFA market.

With the cap ceiling expected to fall, we can find MUCH better value for $5mil on the open market than Paul Martin.
Maybe but the way things are going he'll only be worth around 4.3-4.4 million.

It's not so bad, Gonchar is going to come off the books and we really don't have much after Karlsson. Pretty much Karlsson Methot - Phillips - scrubs......

Plus it seems exactly what Murray always trades for. It makes a lot of sense that they would trade for him IMO.

Does he play right or left defense?

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12-25-2012, 11:37 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by caley View Post
(Contingent on there being a season, obviously) I think you guys are underestimating Gonchar's worth to the Senators. After losing Filip Kuba in the offseason, and Jared Cowen to injury, the Senators blueline is already super-thin (Erik Karlsson-Marc Methot, Chris Phillips-Mike Lundin and then a whole schwack of prospects). For them to give up one of their few remaining Top 4 d-men, a team would have to pay through the nose to get him.

Pittsburgh has a number of good blueline prospects in the system (Morrow, Harrington, Dumoulin, Maatta, Pouliot) to replace Despres on the depth chart, and Despres is the only one of those 6 to have NHL experience that could step right in to Ottawa's Top 4 right now (Ottawa would have to have someone who can step into the Top 4 right now because they're a playoff contender, not rebuilding). Therefore, if the Penguins are missing Gonchar's leadership and want him back, the cost will likely start with Despres.

Paul Martin has no value to the Senators, or any other team, after his play down the stretch last year. He's gonna need a nice stretch of play before anyone's willing to deal for him.

Now, if Ottawa falls out of the playoff race, Gonchar might come available at the deadline for much cheaper. But, if you're talking about Pittsburgh wanting him as soon as the lock-out is over, my guess is it would take Despres to get Ottawa to consider it.
^
Unless the Sens trade for another dman (Hjalmarsson)

I still think Hawks move Hammer and Sens make sense

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12-25-2012, 01:31 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
^
Unless the Sens trade for another dman (Hjalmarsson)

I still think Hawks move Hammer and Sens make sense
It did before the Methot trade, but if the Sens were now to move out Gonchar and replace him with Hjalmarsson, we'd be looking at a defensive lineup of EK and 5 guys who cant score.

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12-25-2012, 02:26 PM
  #108
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Why couldn't Pittsburgh have kept Z. Michalek? I would have loved a trade centered around him.

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Old
12-25-2012, 04:43 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
It did before the Methot trade, but if the Sens were now to move out Gonchar and replace him with Hjalmarsson, we'd be looking at a defensive lineup of EK and 5 guys who cant score.
Hjalmarsson-Karlsson
Wiercioch-Methot
Philips-Lundin

uhh Yeah it looks rather poor unless Ceci could surprise and be ready sooner then later..

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Old
12-25-2012, 04:48 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
Martin for Gonchar straight up? Not a chance the Sens would do that. That's awful. His contract is awful. Martin is just awful.
This sounds kind of hypocritical considering Gonchar had a brutal season a few years ago that outmatches Martin's season of last year. I do think Martin is hella overrated and I think he's on a brutal contract, but he can rebound just like Gonchar did last season.

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12-25-2012, 04:49 PM
  #111
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Why couldn't Pittsburgh have kept Z. Michalek? I would have loved a trade centered around him.
He wanted to go back to Phoenix.

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Old
12-25-2012, 05:02 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Honestly though, I'm doubting there's much merit to this rumor unless the Pens found a way to dump Martin.

Either way, $5.5M is a lot to pay for somebody's leadership.
He was also, what, 20th in DMan points? Gonch isnt really overpaid and he's very important to the Sens, as likely their #2 DMan. Only guys I'd realistically be interested in are Kunitz, Niskanen, Depres, Morrow or Mattaa. I assume Pouliot isn't available. I also assume that outside of Niskanen, who would need a decent + added to him, the Pens wouldnt want to deal any of those guys.

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12-25-2012, 05:04 PM
  #113
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Also, this rumour just doesn't really make sense at all. Who is going to play defence for Ottawa if they trade Gonchar?

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12-25-2012, 05:07 PM
  #114
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The Sens, at most, have 48 games of Gonchar. He has a big salary, and is not what he used to be. Those looking for an NHL roster player or a prospect like Simon Despres are dreaming. I'd give a draft pick, and a mid-teir prospect like Sneep. He's coming to Pittsburgh either way, if the rumors are true.

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12-25-2012, 05:12 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
The Sens, at most, have 48 games of Gonchar. He has a big salary, and is not what he used to be. Those looking for an NHL roster player or a prospect like Simon Despres are dreaming. I'd give a draft pick, and a mid-teir prospect like Sneep. He's coming to Pittsburgh either way, if the rumors are true.
Sens arent going to throw away their #2 minute player in Alfie's last year for a mid rounder. I'd much rather just let him walk.

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12-25-2012, 06:01 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
Sens arent going to throw away their #2 minute player in Alfie's last year for a mid rounder. I'd much rather just let him walk.
And as a Pens fan, I'd rather get him when he's a free agent anyways. It doesn't make sense for Ottawa to trade him right now, and it doesn't make sense for the Pens to give up anything of great value for a guy who is going to come to them first on July 1 anyways.

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12-25-2012, 06:12 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
This sounds kind of hypocritical considering Gonchar had a brutal season a few years ago that outmatches Martin's season of last year. I do think Martin is hella overrated and I think he's on a brutal contract, but he can rebound just like Gonchar did last season.
Pretty much. I'm not expecting Martin to ever live up to his contract, but I do think he can bounce back.

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Sens arent going to throw away their #2 minute player in Alfie's last year for a mid rounder. I'd much rather just let him walk.
Cool. Then the Sens can have their #2 guy and the Pens can keep their prospect(s).

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12-25-2012, 06:14 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
It did before the Methot trade, but if the Sens were now to move out Gonchar and replace him with Hjalmarsson, we'd be looking at a defensive lineup of EK and 5 guys who cant score.
Absolutely forgot about Methot trade

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12-25-2012, 06:16 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
And as a Pens fan, I'd rather get him when he's a free agent anyways. It doesn't make sense for Ottawa to trade him right now, and it doesn't make sense for the Pens to give up anything of great value for a guy who is going to come to them first on July 1 anyways.
Yep, agreed. If the Sens are eliminated from contention by the deadline then I'm sure something like Sneep and a 3rd would get done. Murray likes sending his guys where they wanna go.

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12-26-2012, 01:31 AM
  #120
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Can this please happen? I'd love to see more players float right by him as he makes horrible attempts at stopping them, especially in the playoffs.

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12-26-2012, 02:33 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
You're dreaming. You're not getting a 1st rounder - who's done nothing but improve his stock since the day he was drafted, and played better than every defenseman on the team outside of Letang in his NHL call-ups - for a 38 year old impending UFA defenseman.

Honestly, where's the precedent for that?
Well, it's always what team A wants from team B and how bad they want it.

Not perfect example but Coburn for Zhitnik quite a few years back... at deadline.

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12-26-2012, 02:35 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
2/24/2007: Atlanta Thrashers traded Braydon Coburn to the Philadelphia Flyers for Alexei Zhitnik.

I mean, don't get me wrong, that was an absolutely brutal trade... but there is a precedent for it.
Oops, just referenced that trade, then scrolled down.

Bad trade for the Thrashers, but not terrible if it pushed them deeper in the playoffs (which it didn't), but I think a team might do the same.

Also, Bruins trade 1st, Joe Colborne (16th overall), 2nd for rental Kaberle.

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12-26-2012, 03:02 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by WhalerTurnedBruin55 View Post
Well, it's always what team A wants from team B and how bad they want it.

Not perfect example but Coburn for Zhitnik quite a few years back... at deadline.
Or Corey Perry and a 1st for Mike Comrie.

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12-26-2012, 07:01 AM
  #124
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I could see both Bortuzzo and Strait going for Gonchar. That's who they are going to dangle because both are waiver eligable. We only have to pay Gonchar for a 1/2 season so I think it would be a good move. After that we can see where our young D-men are and if they are ready to move up. No way would I move Despres. He's NHL ready for a top 4 spot. If Bortuzzo and Strait aren't moved he may not get it this season.

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12-26-2012, 07:15 AM
  #125
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Not perfect example but Coburn for Zhitnik quite a few years back... at deadline.
But Waddell was the worst trading GM in the league since Milbury. You'd have to liquor Shero up to a near-fatal level to make him trade one of his prized D prospects for a nearly 39 year old rental. Ray fleeced Don for Hossa and Dupuis, and in other deadline moves he got Bill Guerin for a conditional pick and Hal Gill (with 1.5 years left) for a 2nd and a 5th. As much as everyone in the Pens organization should like the Sarge for being the good guy and Geno mentor that he is, he isn't someone they absolutely must have. It's more likely Shero offers him a 1-year deal next summer in case Morrow is not ready for prime time.

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