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Old
12-25-2012, 05:58 PM
  #76
IrishPaulie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
1) Seth Jones is 1" shorter than Hamilton, but bigger. Larsson is all of 2" smaller. I'd say Jones' skating ability is better than Hamilton's, Larsson's puck control is far better, and as far as defensive awareness, I have not at all been impressed by Hamilton's (haven't really seen enough of Jones to know about him there, but scouts seem to all have him rated higher than Hamilton at the same age). Do you catch a lot of OHL games, and have seen Hamilton in them? I haven't, I've only seen the international games and his decision making, puck handling and defensive awareness have all looked to be RELATIVE weak points. I've seen him take quite a few dumb penalties and made bad reads in his own end. Now I'm totally willing to say that if you see any dman enough you'll find plays like that, but I think the consensus amongst most hockey people is that Hamilton is not the best defensive prospect in the world right now. Doesn't mean he isn't a great prospect, just not the best.

2) "Devil's advocate" implies that someone is arguing a point they don't really believe in. Sorry, doesn't apply to me. Say whatever you want about me but I believe what I say.
All fair points.

I'm not a big fan of judging player by their international tournaments though. Short timeframe, little to no chemistry, sometimes different systems, different rinks and regulation of rules. Again though that's just me. Plenty of people like to see kids with character, players that elevate their play and lead.

Either way, from the first two Canada games I've seen so far not a single defensemen on the team has wowed me.

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Old
12-25-2012, 06:03 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by IrishPaulie View Post
All fair points.

I'm not a big fan of judging player by their international tournaments though. Short timeframe, little to no chemistry, sometimes different systems, different rinks and regulation of rules. Again though that's just me. Plenty of people like to see kids with character, players that elevate their play and lead.

Either way, from the first two Canada games I've seen so far not a single defensemen on the team has wowed me.
I think the international tournament thing has its pluses and minuses. For sure, the minuses you mention are real. At the same time, they have a player playing against the absolute best competition in his age group. And Hamilton hasn't been "bad" at all, he just hasn't (as you say) wowed me.

To me, Larsson is the surest thing and Jones has the most upside, perhaps you can say that Hamilton has more upside than Larsson and is more of a sure thing than Jones (not that I necessarily agree with those statements).

This is what I know: He's a great prospect. The B's aren't trading him. I just think calling him the best D prospect in the world is a little over the top.

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12-25-2012, 06:07 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Not you personally but I have seen comments from other Bruins fans calling Dougie Hamilton a future Norris Trophy winner and etc. Now there is nothing wrong with being excited for a prospect because I can't wait until Morgan Rielly plays in Toronto. However you can't deny that there are some Bruins fans who are really overhyping Hamilton before he even plays his 1st NHL game. However it's something all fan bases do, but you have to admit some Bruins fans have been guilty with the Norris Trophy comments.
I have seen 2 make comments like that and I would imagine that they don't even really think that.

If you want to generalize Bruins fans maybe the way to go is to say what about 90% of them think, and that is that Hamilton has the chance to be a top pairing D but to expect that to happen right away is setting yourself up for disappointment.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-25-2012 at 07:35 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
12-25-2012, 06:48 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I think the international tournament thing has its pluses and minuses. For sure, the minuses you mention are real. At the same time, they have a player playing against the absolute best competition in his age group. And Hamilton hasn't been "bad" at all, he just hasn't (as you say) wowed me.

To me, Larsson is the surest thing and Jones has the most upside, perhaps you can say that Hamilton has more upside than Larsson and is more of a sure thing than Jones (not that I necessarily agree with those statements).

This is what I know: He's a great prospect. The B's aren't trading him. I just think calling him the best D prospect in the world is a little over the top.
Well said.

Of the three I like Jones the best and have Larsson and Hamilton just behind him. Any or all of them could end up anchoring an NHL D for a very long time. I think a good argument could be made for any of Hamilton, Reilly, Schultz, Brodin or Jones as being the best D prospects in the world. Not saying those arguments would be right or wrong, just saying a decent argument based around what little facts, what scouts say and stats we have available could be made for each of them.

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12-26-2012, 09:08 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nmbr_24 View Post
I have seen 2 make comments like that and I would imagine that they don't even really think that.

If you want to generalize Bruins fans maybe the way to go is to say what about 90% of them think, and that is that Hamilton has the chance to be a top pairing D but to expect that to happen right away is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Exactly... I've been yelled at a couple of times because I said Hamilton was going to flat-out suck this year. He's going to get little to no minutes or opportunities, he'll be in the press box occasionally, and he's going to make mistakes. It's the same thing that happened to Seguin and it's going to happen to Hamilton, it's no big deal.

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Old
12-26-2012, 09:54 AM
  #81
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Exactly... I've been yelled at a couple of times because I said Hamilton was going to flat-out suck this year. He's going to get little to no minutes or opportunities, he'll be in the press box occasionally, and he's going to make mistakes. It's the same thing that happened to Seguin and it's going to happen to Hamilton, it's no big deal.
Nicely said. I dont expect Hamilton to come on board and get paired up with Chara in his rookie season playing 25+ mins a night. Just as I didnt expect Seguin to play on Bostons top line his rookie year. I have complete confidence that the coaching staff will handle Hamilton properly, 3rd pairing limited minutes and press box duty. Having said that, I think he is a very good dman and will eventually play himself into a top pairing role within the next 3 or so seasons.

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Old
12-26-2012, 11:32 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Craig Button has no credibility,, he just loves to go 'against the grain', as you yourself do.

Reilly and Jones are no doubt very good dmen, but Hamilton is better than both at the moment. And I think most teams if they had the choice would take Hamilton.
I guess you haven't seen Hamilton's WJC performance

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12-26-2012, 10:04 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Has Caron really fallen that much?
How high was he?

I don't really want the answer but I do miss these.

Edit:

Boston would not trade Bergeron. He is not the system but he is part of it.

Boston would only trade him if it's a deal that they go away laughing. So his name can not be mentioned first because Boston would be laughing for a different reason.


Last edited by Rookie Chargers: 12-26-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Old
12-27-2012, 09:08 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Oh right I forgot that a defenseman's value is limited strictly to his defensive acumen, just like forwards should be evaluated solely on their ability to play offense.
Phil Kessel thanks you.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:50 AM
  #85
nmbr_24
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Originally Posted by Dellstrom View Post
Exactly... I've been yelled at a couple of times because I said Hamilton was going to flat-out suck this year. He's going to get little to no minutes or opportunities, he'll be in the press box occasionally, and he's going to make mistakes. It's the same thing that happened to Seguin and it's going to happen to Hamilton, it's no big deal.
The same thing that happened to Seguin and Kessel before that and Thornton before that.

There is a way that the Bruins seem to operate with their prospects, even if the team was bad, as was the case with Thornton, rookies aren't going to get ice time without proving that the coach should play the rookie over someone else and then they have to prove that they can play better than anyone in front of them on the depth chart in order to move up.

If there is a season this year, Hamilton will have to beat out about 2-3 players to secure the #7 D spot, he will have to beat out someone else to earn the #6 spot and now we get to the point where he will have to beat out the core of the Bruins defense to move up any more than that. Maybe he beats out McQuaid to move up to the #5 guy, but it is a little hard for me to imagine him beating out Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, or Ference when he gets his first crack at making the team.

Someday I think he will get a chance to be a top pairing D-man, but that won't be this year and it probably won't be next year. Maybe year 3-4 he gets his chance.

That does not sound like someone compairing Dougie to Bobby Orr. Anyone who says Bruins fans think that does not have a clue how high we hold Bobby Orr. There has never been any other player who was as good as Bobby Orr, not Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, whoever. None of us think Hamilton is or ever will be even close to what Bobby Orr was and to say that any Bruin fan thinks that is just plain ignorant of what Bruins fans think.

We don't think he will be Ray Bourque, Eddie Shore, Brad park, or even Zdeno Chara either. We HOPE he will one day turn into a top pairing defender, that is about it.

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