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[NYM/TOR] Dickey/Thole/Nickeas for D'Arnaud/Syndergaard/Buck/Becerra (done deal)

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Old
12-22-2012, 01:57 PM
  #501
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Originally Posted by Roughneck View Post
Is Thole the catcher who closed his eyes when trying to catch this?
To be fair, most hitters also close their eyes when they see a pitch like that. Kudos to him for even catching it. That was wicked.

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12-22-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
Doesn't matter who brought them in.

The point is, Yankee fans continued the discussions and turned this thread into a pile of crap.
We have a right to defend our team.

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12-22-2012, 05:51 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
You have to remember Buehrle and Romero are terrific defensive pitchers, they will normally have a lower BABIP because of that. Romero is a 3 win pitcher where Hughes is a 2 win pitcher. Pettitte is an odd cause, I would have to think he is a 3 to 3.5 win pitcher but so is Buehrle based on WAR. If we use RA9-Wins he is a 3.5 to 4 win pitcher with his defense.

I believe both rotations are good, I don't think the Yankee's bats quite match up with the Jays though. Actually looking at it again, they aren't close.
Not really a fan of fielding + pitching stats in a combination since it can be very fundamentally flawed.

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12-23-2012, 12:52 PM
  #504
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How is dickey at controlling the running game? Must be hard for catchers to throw anyone out after catching a knuckleball

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12-24-2012, 06:35 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
How is dickey at controlling the running game? Must be hard for catchers to throw anyone out after catching a knuckleball

Seems to be really good actually. I think his delivery to the plate is much quicker than someone like Wakefield.

Dickey had 4 stolen bases against him last year while 3 were caught stealing. He also managed 5 pickoffs, so I'm assuming he has a fairly quick move to first base. That's not a big sample size to work from but gives us a general idea.

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12-24-2012, 12:25 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Seems to be really good actually. I think his delivery to the plate is much quicker than someone like Wakefield.

Dickey had 4 stolen bases against him last year while 3 were caught stealing. He also managed 5 pickoffs, so I'm assuming he has a fairly quick move to first base. That's not a big sample size to work from but gives us a general idea.
Ya his knuckle averaged 77 mph last year, Wakefield would throw 67-68. Dickey can throw it 80-82 just not consistently. So it is a faster knuckle than most do

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12-24-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
How is dickey at controlling the running game? Must be hard for catchers to throw anyone out after catching a knuckleball
he has a harder knuckeball then Wakefield had. I dont think Wakefield ever paid attention to guys on base. He has a deceptive move pickoff move as well. I am sure guys in the AL will test his move

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12-24-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Ya his knuckle averaged 77 mph last year, Wakefield would throw 67-68. Dickey can throw it 80-82 just not consistently. So it is a faster knuckle than most do
Yeah no doubt he throws a harder knuckler. I was referring to the amount of time it takes him to deliver the ball to home plate and times to first base. For example AJ throws hard but takes forever to get rid of the ball to home plate. it doens't seem like Dickey has that problem judings by his stats.

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12-24-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Yeah no doubt he throws a harder knuckler. I was referring to the amount of time it takes him to deliver the ball to home plate and times to first base. For example AJ throws hard but takes forever to get rid of the ball to home plate. it doens't seem like Dickey has that problem judings by his stats.

Ah thought you ment speed of the ball. So he's quicker and throws it harder.

But for a catcher, wouldn't it be harder to throw out someone? They probably catch it awkwardly alot

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12-25-2012, 02:08 PM
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Got my dickey jersey for christmas, hopefully this works out better than my last choice (alvarez)

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12-25-2012, 02:13 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Got my dickey jersey for christmas, hopefully this works out better than my last choice (alvarez)
Alvarez is a bit of a different choice. I expect Dickey to be a much better choice.

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12-25-2012, 02:55 PM
  #512
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I was in Orlando when news of this trade broke and then Dickey signing that extension and it was something I didn't see happening.

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12-25-2012, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Ya his knuckle averaged 77 mph last year, Wakefield would throw 67-68. Dickey can throw it 80-82 just not consistently. So it is a faster knuckle than most do
its not that he can't throw it consistently, he just purposely changes it up

he throws a slow knuckler sometiems as well

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12-25-2012, 08:15 PM
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This will also make tv ratings, merchandise sales and attendance go way up so this should definitely help them long term.
I thought the Blue Jays merchandise sales went up before when they brought back their old logo they had in the early 1990's. Personally speaking I bought the authentic players hat and I have seen a lot of people around the city of Toronto who also wear it.

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12-25-2012, 10:18 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
I thought the Blue Jays merchandise sales went up before when they brought back their old logo they had in the early 1990's. Personally speaking I bought the authentic players hat and I have seen a lot of people around the city of Toronto who also wear it.
It probably did but it will go up more. People buying the new player shirts or jerseys and just overall buzz/attention with this team.

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12-26-2012, 12:05 AM
  #516
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
It probably did but it will go up more. People buying the new player shirts or jerseys and just overall buzz/attention with this team.
For example I got a new jersey and a authentic hoody for christmas

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12-26-2012, 05:00 AM
  #517
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I bought a Bautista jersey last year, didn't get any blue jays gear for chistmas but someone tried getting me a copy of RA Dickey's book and it was sold everywhere in the city.

So my gift card I received instead is going towards his book if I can find one.

The Jays shop was packed for the Texas series at the end of the year, it's hard to believe that store being busier than it was last year but it will definately happen.

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12-26-2012, 01:06 PM
  #518
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Jays fans taking it personally that casual observers here are not just giving them the east title when power houses such as the Yankees are still in the division.

I think some site puts the Jays at 16 WAR with all the moves they made over last year. Thats still not enough to beat the Yankees or the Rays, and with all the moves the Red Sox have made, I would put them above the Jays also, not even mentioning the O's who will have full years from Machado and Bundy.

You have to remeber, the Jays were a horrible team last year, closer to the Royals then the elite of the east. Sure, they had injuries, but they wernt the only team that did. Couple the fact that some of the players they recieved are perputually injury prone, you have to take into consideration exactly what they are....a last place team.

The division is too stacked, and throw out the fact that the Jays now have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, you have to think what specificly can they aquire come the trading deadline.

In my opinion, these moves are just not enough.

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12-26-2012, 01:19 PM
  #519
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^ Orioles will be better than the Jays this year ? Lol alright .. And how many teams lost 3-4 starting pitchers plus an elite talent like Bautista last year ?

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12-26-2012, 01:23 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by Leafs at Knight View Post
^ Orioles will be better than the Jays this year ? Lol alright .. And how many teams lost 3-4 starting pitchers plus an elite talent like Bautista last year ?
Doesnt matter when many were proclaiming just how great the Jays system was, it surely didnt compensate injuries, nor were the Jays the only team to face injuries as a whole. Now, throw in the fact that the injury concern from some of the players aquired means more par for the course and it suddenly looks like yet another built in excuse when the Jays do indeed not reach expectations.

As for the O's, they have a much, much better manager, that alone makes them better.

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12-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Jays fans taking it personally that casual observers here are not just giving them the east title when power houses such as the Yankees are still in the division.

I think some site puts the Jays at 16 WAR with all the moves they made over last year. Thats still not enough to beat the Yankees or the Rays, and with all the moves the Red Sox have made, I would put them above the Jays also, not even mentioning the O's who will have full years from Machado and Bundy.

You have to remeber, the Jays were a horrible team last year, closer to the Royals then the elite of the east. Sure, they had injuries, but they wernt the only team that did. Couple the fact that some of the players they recieved are perputually injury prone, you have to take into consideration exactly what they are....a last place team.

The division is too stacked, and throw out the fact that the Jays now have one of the worst minor league systems in baseball, you have to think what specificly can they aquire come the trading deadline.

In my opinion, these moves are just not enough.
Name us the team that had more impactful injuries than the Blue Jays last year.

As for our minor league system, I wouldn't call it the one of the worst but it's definately not top 5 anymore. I'd say it's middle of the pack, with a chance of it being replenished next season with our #10 overall protected pick and many others.

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12-26-2012, 02:14 PM
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Name us the team that had more impactful injuries than the Blue Jays last year.
Injuries happen to each and every team. To pigeon hole injures as the reason the Jays stunk up the east last year is nothing more then an excuse. The Yankees had a bevy of injuries last year and still produced. Every injury to a player who is counted on is impactful.

Now, throw in the fact that some of the players aquired in the big off season for the Jays are similar to the often injured players that reside on the already questionable roster, and you have a questionable team with a bunch of concerns instead of a team that can challenge the mighty Yankees who, obviously, didnt have to do too much this off season to actually be considered a contender...which, the Jays obviously had to do to keep up in a division thats still a couple steps ahead.

The Yankees gave Youk a huge one year contract to play half a year, thats the richer getting richer.
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
As for our minor league system, I wouldn't call it the one of the worst but it's definately not top 5 anymore. I'd say it's middle of the pack, with a chance of it being replenished next season with our #10 overall protected pick and many others.
I take BBA's word over anybody, and if they say the Jays farm system is one of the worst, I take that over anybody elses opinion, but thats just me.

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12-26-2012, 02:15 PM
  #523
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Originally Posted by Leafs at Knight View Post
^ Orioles will be better than the Jays this year ? Lol alright .. And how many teams lost 3-4 starting pitchers plus an elite talent like Bautista last year ?
O's lost Markakis and Roberts. 2 star players.

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12-26-2012, 02:16 PM
  #524
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Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Name us the team that had more impactful injuries than the Blue Jays last year.

As for our minor league system, I wouldn't call it the one of the worst but it's definately not top 5 anymore. I'd say it's middle of the pack, with a chance of it being replenished next season with our #10 overall protected pick and many others.
There was an online chat with Keith Law where he said he projects the Jays prospect pool to rank in the 15-20 range. Which makes sense. If you can have a competitive major league team and still keep a top 20 prospect group, I'll take that every day of the week and twice on tuesday.

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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
O's lost Markakis and Roberts. 2 star players.
Jays lost Bautista, Lawrie, Arencibia for a considerable amount of time. Rasmus spent some time on the DL aswell. That's just positional players.

It's not really comparable.

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12-26-2012, 03:36 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Injuries happen to each and every team. To pigeon hole injures as the reason the Jays stunk up the east last year is nothing more then an excuse. The Yankees had a bevy of injuries last year and still produced. Every injury to a player who is counted on is impactful.
But none more impactful than the Jays

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Originally Posted by Martini View Post

Now, throw in the fact that some of the players aquired in the big off season for the Jays are similar to the often injured players that reside on the already questionable roster, and you have a questionable team with a bunch of concerns instead of a team that can challenge the mighty Yankees who, obviously, didnt have to do too much this off season to actually be considered a contender...which, the Jays obviously had to do to keep up in a division thats still a couple steps ahead.
We have 4 pitchers plenty capable of 200 innings now, something we couldn't say last season. We also upgraded just about every other postion we could except C and DH. If you went by WAR totals I'm sure that having Bautista and Lawrie out for such length of time as well as 3/5 of our starting rotation injured it was definitely more impactful than the Yankees injuries. And then add the fact that your team spends an insance amount of money on just about anybody. Your payroll was over $200 million ours was near $70, so just going by those 2 reason alone, I'd saw the Jays injuries were definitely more impactful to their team and you haven't named a team that went through anything worse than the Jays.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martini View Post
I take BBA's word over anybody, and if they say the Jays farm system is one of the worst, I take that over anybody elses opinion, but thats just me.

I haven't seen it, but that doens't mean it will be like that forever. It will easily change by mid summer , and if we do miss the playoffs again we can trade Johnson near the deadline to replenish more prospects.

In the end, I'll take a weaker farm system than last year and a better MLB team any day of the week and both can get better, it's not permanent.


Last edited by topshelfie: 12-26-2012 at 04:59 PM.
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