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Joe Morrow vs Derrick Pouliot

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Old
12-26-2012, 10:12 AM
  #51
jmelm
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
I believe Despres was called up last season because:

1. Multiple injuries on Pitt's defense;
2. Depth players also injured;
3. Top WBS players also injured.

All he had to do at that point was have a pulse and he was eligible to be called up. He did surprisingly well in the sheltered NHL minutes that he got so that was weighed against his AHL performance in future call ups. Also, to a lesser degree, you have to consider that they could be looking for particular skill sets depending on who was injured.

Yeah, pretty much this exactly -- in terms of why Despres was called up. It was not because we really "needed" him on the big club, or that he would have developed better in the NHL. He was brought up because the team needed bodies, and with all the injuries they had up and down the defense, they chose to give Despres a shot -- even though if all things were equal and there were no injuries, he would have been left in the AHL.


And Jiggy: As far as Morrow or even Despres being "exceptions" like Letang is just so absurd, that I imagine it can only come from blind homerism. Morrow was not even consistent in his own end in the WHL LAST season, and has been inconsistent so far in the AHL, just like Botteril said in his quote. These are kids that need to learn how to do certain things before they can take the next step.


Despres is closer than Morrow, but that's because he had a full year of pro under his belt, and unlike Morrow, was dominant at both ends of the ice in junior. Yet if Despres had jumped right into the NHL full-time last year (like you are suggesting with Morrow), his weaknesses would have been very apparent, he would not have developed as well, and would be bumping a better player (i.e. Niskanen or Engelland)out of a roster spot last season.


Morrow was a bit of a "project" when he was drafted, and he has not yet learned to be a complete & consistent player. In fact, if he wasn't a late birthday (born after Sept. 15th), he would be still be playing another season in the WHL and we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'm high on Morrow's long-term potential, but the best thing for him BY FAR is to develop in WBS? Disagree and you think you know better? Well, just watch what Shero, Botteril, Fitzgerald, Gurein, Hynes and the other Pens' brass decide to do with this player. But I guess you know better than all those guys...

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12-26-2012, 10:33 AM
  #52
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We don't have a PP QB. And it's not hard to understand Sid/Geno are gonna benefit more from his offensive instincts than the garbage in WBS.

If our PP struggles this year, no reason why he shouldn't get a call up. Help boost his confidence playing with elite talent.

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12-26-2012, 12:45 PM
  #53
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We don't have a PP QB. And it's not hard to understand Sid/Geno are gonna benefit more from his offensive instincts than the garbage in WBS.

If our PP struggles this year, no reason why he shouldn't get a call up. Help boost his confidence playing with elite talent.
He's not a NHL PP QB yet. He's not even a good AHL PP QB yet. I don't know any other way to say it so that people will understand.

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12-26-2012, 01:13 PM
  #54
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He's not a NHL PP QB yet. He's not even a good AHL PP QB yet. I don't know any other way to say it so that people will understand.
He'd bring qualities to our PP that we lack. Big point shot and from what I've read and seen, quick decision making. Letang gets by with insane skating and natural talent.

And you're right, he's not a good enough PP QB to make a **** PP dynamic. Bu he is talented enough to help a PP featuring Letang/Crosby/Malkin/Neal.

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12-26-2012, 01:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
He'd bring qualities to our PP that we lack. Big point shot and from what I've read and seen, quick decision making. Letang gets by with insane skating and natural talent.

And you're right, he's not a good enough PP QB to make a **** PP dynamic. Bu he is talented enough to help a PP featuring Letang/Crosby/Malkin/Neal.
Maybe so but I don't think that would make up for his defensive lapses. Why would you want to play him 10 min a night in the NHL as a third pairing D-man and PP specialist when he could be playing 15 to 20 minutes a night in all situations in the AHL? Just makes no sense when we have so many D-men in the pipeline. I'd rather see them go out and get Gonchar for the rest of this season, if there is one, and leave Morrow to improve his over all game. That would make much more sense.

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12-26-2012, 02:01 PM
  #56
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Maybe so but I don't think that would make up for his defensive lapses. Why would you want to play him 10 min a night in the NHL as a third pairing D-man and PP specialist when he could be playing 15 to 20 minutes a night in all situations in the AHL? Just makes no sense when we have so many D-men in the pipeline. I'd rather see them go out and get Gonchar for the rest of this season, if there is one, and leave Morrow to improve his over all game. That would make much more sense.
I think an argument can be made for it being mutually beneficial to have him as a 3rd pairing D playing prime PP minutes. As others have said, Despres is gonna be in the NHL very soon and by no means has he dominated the A. Morrow brings far more offensively. If he fills a need on our roster, we're not stunting his development giving him minutes with the best players in the world. May very well accelerate it if anything. Pair him with a guy like Dumoulin or Bortuzzo who knows our system well and has the size to complement the pairing.

I'm all for it.

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12-26-2012, 02:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I think an argument can be made for it being mutually beneficial to have him as a 3rd pairing D playing prime PP minutes. As others have said, Despres is gonna be in the NHL very soon and by no means has he dominated the A. Morrow brings far more offensively. If he fills a need on our roster, we're not stunting his development giving him minutes with the best players in the world. May very well accelerate it if anything. Pair him with a guy like Dumoulin or Bortuzzo who knows our system well and has the size to complement the pairing.

I'm all for it.
I think you will see that eventually but not this year and maybe not even next year.

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12-26-2012, 02:27 PM
  #58
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I think you will see that eventually but not this year and maybe not even next year.
We'll see. I think there's a real chance of it happening if Despres is moved. We'd be better off letting Martin rebound, having Despres showcase himself for trade bait later in the season this year or next and have Morrow move up the depth chart with Bortuzzo and Dumoulin rounding things out.

Martin/Letang
Orpik/Niskanen
Morrow/Bortuzzo/Engelland/Dumoulin

Ill take that.

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12-26-2012, 03:52 PM
  #59
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We'll see. I think there's a real chance of it happening if Despres is moved. We'd be better off letting Martin rebound, having Despres showcase himself for trade bait later in the season this year or next and have Morrow move up the depth chart with Bortuzzo and Dumoulin rounding things out.

Martin/Letang
Orpik/Niskanen
Morrow/Bortuzzo/Engelland/Dumoulin

Ill take that.
IMO, I would not move Despres. I sure hope they don't. If we get back to playing this season, every game is going to be that much more important. I would much rather see them go after Gonchar for half a season rather than put in a rookie with zero NHL experience in the line up. We have plenty of cap space and if he doesn't work out we let him walk. First PP would be Letand/Gonchar and 2nd PP would be Martin/Niskanen. I just don't think we would have to give up much to get him.

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12-26-2012, 04:02 PM
  #60
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I just think having Dumoulin and Morrow in the fold makes Despres expendable. If there's no season, I see Despres getting ample opportunity in the fall and being moved by the deadline.

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12-26-2012, 04:06 PM
  #61
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I just think having Dumoulin and Morrow in the fold makes Despres expendable. If there's no season, I see Despres getting ample opportunity in the fall and being moved by the deadline.
I like Dumoulin but I don't think he will ever be as good as Despres. And i'm still not sold on Morrow. I don't think he makes anyone expendable, esp Despres.

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12-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #62
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I don't see Despres filling a role higher than #5 for the foreseeable future. He may get some shifts with Letang, but he won't be a regular top 4 guy. I can certainly see some combo of Morrow/Dumoulin/Bortuzzo/Strait/Engelland filling out our D quite nicely. Morrow giving us a dynamic PP presence and transition player.

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12-26-2012, 04:23 PM
  #63
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I don't see Despres filling a role higher than #5 for the foreseeable future. He may get some shifts with Letang, but he won't be a regular top 4 guy. I can certainly see some combo of Morrow/Dumoulin/Bortuzzo/Strait/Engelland filling out our D quite nicely. Morrow giving us a dynamic PP presence and transition player.
Hopefully we will find out in a couple weeks. All bets are off if we miss the whole season.

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12-26-2012, 04:37 PM
  #64
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Hopefully we will find out in a couple weeks. All bets are off if we miss the whole season.
If we miss the season, Id say its more likely Despres is moved. Too many prospects knocking on the door including Harrington next year.

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12-26-2012, 04:48 PM
  #65
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In my opinion, Despres>Dumoulin. Despres is actually NHL ready, and he is a great shutdown D. I'd trade Dumoulin before him.

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12-26-2012, 04:59 PM
  #66
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Dumoulin isn't too far off development wise from Despres.

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12-26-2012, 05:06 PM
  #67
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I just think having Dumoulin and Morrow in the fold makes Despres expendable. If there's no season, I see Despres getting ample opportunity in the fall and being moved by the deadline.
I'd trade the guys further away from the NHL (Dumoulin) than the guy ready to make an impact.

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12-26-2012, 05:14 PM
  #68
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I'd trade the guys further away from the NHL (Dumoulin) than the guy ready to make an impact.
I see Dumoulin bringing more of what we need. We're looking to fill out our 5/6/7 spots. We can do that without Despres. I'm firmly in the camp that wants to see Sid get his longterm linemate though. Despres gets us that piece IMO.

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12-26-2012, 05:37 PM
  #69
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Yeah, pretty much this exactly -- in terms of why Despres was called up. It was not because we really "needed" him on the big club, or that he would have developed better in the NHL. He was brought up because the team needed bodies, and with all the injuries they had up and down the defense, they chose to give Despres a shot -- even though if all things were equal and there were no injuries, he would have been left in the AHL.


And Jiggy: As far as Morrow or even Despres being "exceptions" like Letang is just so absurd, that I imagine it can only come from blind homerism. Morrow was not even consistent in his own end in the WHL LAST season, and has been inconsistent so far in the AHL, just like Botteril said in his quote. These are kids that need to learn how to do certain things before they can take the next step.


Despres is closer than Morrow, but that's because he had a full year of pro under his belt, and unlike Morrow, was dominant at both ends of the ice in junior. Yet if Despres had jumped right into the NHL full-time last year (like you are suggesting with Morrow), his weaknesses would have been very apparent, he would not have developed as well, and would be bumping a better player (i.e. Niskanen or Engelland)out of a roster spot last season.


Morrow was a bit of a "project" when he was drafted, and he has not yet learned to be a complete & consistent player. In fact, if he wasn't a late birthday (born after Sept. 15th), he would be still be playing another season in the WHL and we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation. I'm high on Morrow's long-term potential, but the best thing for him BY FAR is to develop in WBS? Disagree and you think you know better? Well, just watch what Shero, Botteril, Fitzgerald, Gurein, Hynes and the other Pens' brass decide to do with this player. But I guess you know better than all those guys...
I know the circumstances why Despres was called up. I said his play didn't warrant a callup. His play was underwhelming and without the injury situation, he doesn't get a chance to show he can hang in the NHL.

And you must have selective memories about how Letang played his first couple of seasons. He was constantly blowing assignments and turning the puck over. What gave you the idea he was consistent in his own end? Just like Morrow, he had other attributes that made him valuable.

Do you think he would of developed to where he is now if he stayed in the A for two seasons?

We had people in here last Summer say Despres was NHL ready and they got blasted (with posts eerily similar to the one you wrote above). I felt he was 1.5 seasons away from seeing serious NHL ice. I was wrong and those posters who felt he was ready, were right.

And you need to stop putting words in my mouth. This is why arguments spin out of control. I said four other guys deserve to see the NHL ahead of Morrow. If their PP falters again, THEN I said he should be brought up to help, because he has the ability to QB a PP like no player on either club.

At no point did I say he deserves to be in the NHL now over Bort, Despres, Strait and Dumoulin. It isn't difficult to understand the distinction there.

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12-26-2012, 05:52 PM
  #70
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I see Dumoulin bringing more of what we need. We're looking to fill out our 5/6/7 spots. We can do that without Despres. I'm firmly in the camp that wants to see Sid get his longterm linemate though. Despres gets us that piece IMO.
Fair enough. if it helps get us another Neal I'd do it.

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12-26-2012, 06:11 PM
  #71
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Fair enough. if it helps get us another Neal I'd do it.
Absolutely. We have NHL ready D-men more than capable of filling out our lineup. Losing Despres and adding Crosby's longterm RW is a no brainer IMO.

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12-26-2012, 06:46 PM
  #72
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Absolutely. We have NHL ready D-men more than capable of filling out our lineup. Losing Despres and adding Crosby's longterm RW is a no brainer IMO.
I love Despres and all, but if we could get someone like Stewart from the Blues, I'd do it without thinking twice.

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12-26-2012, 08:41 PM
  #73
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Morrow is basically a left-handed Kris Letang in development. I see Pouliot as someone like a Brian Rafalski.

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12-26-2012, 09:09 PM
  #74
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Morrow is basically a left-handed Kris Letang in development. I see Pouliot as someone like a Brian Rafalski.
Morrow has a much better slapshot than Letang, doesn't he? That seems like the biggest weapon he could add to the Pens powerplay that we haven't had since Gonchar left. Nobody can threaten a strong shot from the point while having possession of the puck. Defenses can completely play the pass with no real worry of a strong shot once the puck is settled down. Letang is pure skating and athleticism. He isn't that much of a threat when stationary. I would like to see him playing the position Sullivan was in last season as the 2nd point guy and sliding down that wall instead of the QB.

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12-27-2012, 04:36 AM
  #75
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where is the depres is expendable sentiment coming from now? has his performance in wilkes barre been that inconsistent? from the limited times iv watched him play he has dimensions to his game we need, (size, shot, skating) and considering that martin and orpik will most likely be considered expendable in the very near future why move him? is it simply because hes now the prospect most likely considered to get a favorable return and is less shiny than maata and pouliot?

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