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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part X: Is There Any Hope? Edition

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:12 PM
  #326
BBKers
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One of Tampa Bay/Florida
Washington
New York Rangers
New Jersey
Philadelphia
Brooklyn
Pittsburgh
Hartford

Boston
Buffalo
Quebec
Ottawa
Hamilton
Montreal
Toronto
Halifax

Chicago
St Louis
Minnesota
Detroit
One of Columbus/Nashville
Winnipeg
Colorado
Dallas

Las Vegas
Los Angeles
San Jose
Portland/Seattle
Vancouver
Calgary
Edmonton
Anchorage

Could maybe work better market wise
16 teams go to the playoffs - 4 from each division.
42 inter division games
24 inter conference games
16 outside conference games
But our rivalries and inter division play would maybe stink

Carolina gets moved back to Hartford
One of Florida/Tampa Bay => Quebec
One of Columbus/Nashville => Hamilton
Winnipeg gets moved West
Phoenix => Las Vegas
Anaheim => Portland/Seattle
Anchorage gets a new team ( their 1st pro team in Alaska)
Halifax gets a new team
I do not think this league would have the problems the current one displays.
But this is NEVER going to happen...
So do not bother...

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:53 PM
  #327
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A team in Hartford would be worse off than a team in Raleigh.

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Old
12-26-2012, 05:02 PM
  #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Carolina gets moved back to Hartford
One of Florida/Tampa Bay => Quebec
One of Columbus/Nashville => Hamilton
Winnipeg gets moved West
Phoenix => Las Vegas
Anaheim => Portland/Seattle
Anchorage gets a new team ( their 1st pro team in Alaska)
Halifax gets a new team
I do not think this league would have the problems the current one displays.
But this is NEVER going to happen...
So do not bother...
Putting teams in Anchorage, Halifax, Vegas, and going back to Hartford would not work. There's nothing to suggest any of those markets can support an NHL team. The truth is that there are just too many teams. Take these six markets:

Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Florida
Phoenix
Carolina

Contract four of them, move two to Quebec and Hamilton, and expand every roster by three spots. It'll never happen, but that's what we need.


Last edited by Zil: 12-26-2012 at 05:08 PM.
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Old
12-26-2012, 05:03 PM
  #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
A team in Hartford would be worse off than a team in Raleigh.
Thought about that a bit actually. You might be right there. In a parallel universe - somebody is seeing "What if" though...

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12-26-2012, 05:05 PM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Putting teams in Anchorage Alaska, Halifax, Vegas, and going back to Hartford would not work. There's nothing to suggest any of those markets can support an NHL team. The truth is that there are just too many teams. Take these six markets:

Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Florida
Phoenix
Carolina

Contract four of them, move two to Quebec and Hamilton, and expand every roster by three spots. It'll never happen, but that's what we need.
We will never know. And you are probably right. But it would be kinda cool to have teams in Vegas and Alaska as they both presumably could get exposure in a different/better way (and loyal followings as being the only pro sports team in both locations) than some of the cities now entertaining the league. Halifax is a long shot, but them Canadians are nuts about their sport so I dunno i this would not work better than Florida/Columbus. Happy Holidays btw!

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Old
12-26-2012, 05:18 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
No the owners shouldn't think that getting as extra 7% is going to fix all their problems.
If they didn't have their heads up their own ***** they would be pressuring Bettman every minute of every day to fix the current system that can't work without a huge increase of exposure and profitability.
Your logic here is so simplistic that I almost cant believe it. Its spoken like a true fan with absolutely zero perspective or business acumen.

The players can whine all they want about having their cut taken down from $1.8B to $1.6B. They're very fortunate the NHL is not a typical business enterprise because, if it was, about 15% of their workforce would have to worry about totally losing their jobs instead of losing a few bucks.

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Old
12-26-2012, 05:30 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Your logic here is so simplistic that I almost cant believe it. Its spoken like a true fan with absolutely zero perspective or business acumen.

The players can whine all they want about having their cut taken down from $1.8B to $1.6B. They're very fortunate the NHL is not a typical business enterprise because, if it was, about 15% of their workforce would have to worry about totally losing their jobs instead of losing a few bucks.
Wanting the league to fix the actual problems that are causing the majority of teams to lose money is "simplistic"?

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12-26-2012, 05:32 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Wanting the league to fix the actual problems that are causing the majority of teams to lose money is "simplistic"?
No, the only argument for fixing such problems resolving around "exposure" is simplistic.

There are a ton of issues that need solving - almost all of them have to do with the game being overexposed.

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12-26-2012, 05:43 PM
  #334
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Lou "can't answer why" he's not involved in talks. I can. Two words: "Ilya Kovalchuk" @Ledger_NJDevils

Ha ha.

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Old
12-26-2012, 05:57 PM
  #335
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Speaking of Kovalchuk...

Weren't there rumors of all players being stripped to FA and the cap being removed? The Rangers could benefit greatly from a scenario like this..

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:14 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
Speaking of Kovalchuk...

Weren't there rumors of all players being stripped to FA and the cap being removed? The Rangers could benefit greatly from a scenario like this..
Yes, because the decade or so before the cap benefited the Rangers greatly

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:44 PM
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Putting teams in Anchorage, Halifax, Vegas, and going back to Hartford would not work. There's nothing to suggest any of those markets can support an NHL team. The truth is that there are just too many teams. Take these six markets:

Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Florida
Phoenix
Carolina

Contract four of them, move two to Quebec and Hamilton, and expand every roster by three spots. It'll never happen, but that's what we need.

You know the owners are not losing any money because none would agree to contract the league. We are told that half the league is losing money. That would suggest that the 4 worst teams are really in the hole. Yet, none would agree to shut down and to sell off their assets (players & prospects).

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:48 PM
  #338
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Pierre LeBrun @Real_ESPNLeBrun
There has been contact between NHL/NHLPA over past few days but still no talks scheduled at this point...

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...81570585903104

Aaron Ward ‏@aaronward_nhl
At this time,the NHLPA has still not received any indication as to whether the NHL is interested in meeting. #TSN

https://twitter.com/aaronward_nhl/st...82648245219328

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:53 PM
  #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Yes, because the decade or so before the cap benefited the Rangers greatly
That was due to poor management. I don't think it had to do with the money. The only the money did was get us players who didn't do well.

If Sather stays smart and not overpaying everyone, it shouldn't be a problem..

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:59 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
That was due to poor management. I don't think it had to do with the money. The only the money did was get us players who didn't do well.

If Sather stays smart and not overpaying everyone, it shouldn't be a problem..
Management is directly tied to money. Its about allocating resources - most of which are tied to finances. The Rangers allocated their financial resources to players and skimped on the infrastructure of the franchise - scouting, development, etc.

As for your last sentence, a hearty LOL to that one.

The cap is the only thing preventing the Rangers from falling into those same traps of the past.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:05 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Management is directly tied to money. Its about allocating resources - most of which are tied to finances. The Rangers allocated their financial resources to players and skimped on the infrastructure of the franchise - scouting, development, etc.

As for your last sentence, a hearty LOL to that one.

The cap is the only thing preventing the Rangers from falling into those same traps of the past.
If they were as dumb now as they were pre-cap, then this team wouldn't be anything close to a contender.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:07 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
A team in Hartford would be worse off than a team in Raleigh.
I lived in Raleigh for a while.

I don't think that team is as bad off as other southern teams. They'll never be super profitable but they get some decent support there.

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12-26-2012, 07:09 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
Wanting the league to fix the actual problems that are causing the majority of teams to lose money is "simplistic"?
Real life businesses lay off employees all the time when faced with management-level money-making failures.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:11 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
If they were as dumb now as they were pre-cap, then this team wouldn't be anything close to a contender.
Its amazing what a better decision maker an organization can look like when they funnel about $20M per year to building a team rather than handing it aging players.

If you think the Rangers could show restraint without a cap in the way, more power to you. Im certainly not convinced.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:16 PM
  #345
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Real life businesses lay off employees all the time when faced with management-level money-making failures.
I understand that but that won't fix the NHL's current problem of having too many teams not making a profit. It's a band aid on a gun shot.

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12-26-2012, 07:36 PM
  #346
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I understand that but that won't fix the NHL's current problem of having too many teams not making a profit. It's a band aid on a gun shot.
One of my favorite arguments ever - you see it in politics all the time.

"Well, this isnt going to solve everything, so we just shouldnt do it"

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12-26-2012, 07:44 PM
  #347
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
I lived in Raleigh for a while.

I don't think that team is as bad off as other southern teams. They'll never be super profitable but they get some decent support there.
Agreed. Although I was more expressing my doubts of Hartford being a viable modern day NHL market.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:46 PM
  #348
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the NHL needs to start soon. Getting the shakes without it being on. Youtube videos and classic games can only do so much. Luckily, the WJC are here.

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Old
12-26-2012, 10:00 PM
  #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Carolina gets moved back to Hartford
One of Florida/Tampa Bay => Quebec
One of Columbus/Nashville => Hamilton
Winnipeg gets moved West
Phoenix => Las Vegas
Anaheim => Portland/Seattle
Anchorage gets a new team ( their 1st pro team in Alaska)
Halifax gets a new team
I do not think this league would have the problems the current one displays.
You're right in the sense of moving teams in struggling markets to where they could potentially succeed would seriously benefit the league. I blogged about a "perfect scenario" at the beginning of the week actually.

Basically:

Hurricanes > Hartford (pending new arena)
Phoenix > Seattle
Florida > Milwaukee (I think Wisconsin is brutally untouched by the NHL)
Anaheim > Quebec

Realistically the fact is if the NHL seriously wants to avoid all future lockouts, drop the league to at most 26. It's a shame that would never happen.

I mean, just look at what moving from Atlanta to Winnipeg did in ONE SEASON.

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12-26-2012, 11:59 PM
  #350
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
You know the owners are not losing any money because none would agree to contract the league. We are told that half the league is losing money. That would suggest that the 4 worst teams are really in the hole. Yet, none would agree to shut down and to sell off their assets (players & prospects).
Yep, this is all about destroying the union. I still think there's too many teams though. It's dragging down the overall talent level in the league and arguably pushing contract dollars up.

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