HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Notices

CBA Thread, Daniel Bryan Edition: The lockout is (tentatively) over!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-25-2012, 11:34 PM
  #676
BrunoPuntzJones
Biscuit Scorer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You can't defend him here. Nobody can. I am one of the bigger Orpik fans and apologists for Penguins players... but there is just no defending how he came off. I get what he was trying to say, but his game is dying and that was a terrible thing to say.

Just not the right audience or time to say it. Defend it all you want, but there just is no denying his timing here.
You're right, he should have volunteered his services for designing some new billboards and print ads, calling up sponsors, and personally groveling at your feet. He should probably also be demanding the breaking of every union, given that they are often damaging to the health of the beautiful free market and breeding grounds of subversive activities (often at the instigation of foreigners [am I the only one who has noticed how many Canadians there are in the NHLPA? wake up people]) and for Don Fehr to be called before the HUAC.

Brooks Orpik and every other hockey player doesn't owe you anything except a decent effort 80-100 nights a year. The idea that they're supposed to acquiesce to management's aims simply because you paid into their industry is no different from any other ******** anti-worker mentality. The fact that a hockey player can make millions changes nothing. Blaming a defenseman for killing hockey is like blaming a baker for killing Hostess. If you have a problem with their salary, go watch someone who makes less (or nothing at all) doing it. They're not hard to find. I mean, I think it's just fundamentally silly to complain about how much money athletes make on the grounds that you're "paying for it" when you're COMPLETELY WILLING TO CONTINUE FUNDING IT 90% OF THE TIME. If anything the chief complaint should be that you keep giving money to owners who are so inept and spend it so poorly that they need to lock the players out and demand significant concessions from the union every time a CBA expires.

I mean, that's not to say the players and the union have been golden through this whole thing, but ****, if you get set off by a pretty harmless comment one of them makes in an interview, you'd better be ****ing constantly enraged at the implications of what the owners are doing, or something's wrong.


Last edited by BrunoPuntzJones: 12-25-2012 at 11:53 PM.
BrunoPuntzJones is offline  
Old
12-25-2012, 11:52 PM
  #677
penguins2946*
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOTO View Post
You're right, he should have volunteered his services for designing some new billboards and print ads, calling up sponsors, and personally groveling at your feet. He should probably also be demanding the breaking of every union, given that they are often damaging to the health of the beautiful free market and breeding grounds of subversive activities (often at the instigation of foreigners [am I the only one who has noticed how many Canadians there are in the NHLPA? wake up people]) and for Don Fehr to be called before the HUAC.

Brooks Orpik and every other hockey player doesn't owe you anything except a decent effort 80-100 nights a year. The idea that they're supposed to acquiesce to management's aims simply because you paid into their industry is no different from any other ******** anti-worker mentality. The fact that a hockey player can make millions changes nothing. If you have a problem with their salary, go watch someone who makes less (or nothing at all) doing it. They're not hard to find.
This pretty much sums up my opinion on it. It's his job to perform, not to market. The owners are the ones that do all of the marketing stuff. It's not like he can make a promo night so fans will come back. And I assure you, fans will come back. They've done it twice before.

penguins2946* is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 07:26 AM
  #678
Burgs
Registered User
 
Burgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Germany
Posts: 5,429
vCash: 500
Quote:
"They‘re in charge of that stuff, to market the game. The only way we can sell the game as players is to play as well as possible and to be accessible with the fans and media. But the rest is the league‘s job."
I'm certainly not pro-players but I don't get the anger over what Orpik said. I understand the question as being about what both sides will do to make up with the fans once the lockout is over. If anything, it's the headline that has a misleading "Let them eat cake" vibe to it.

Burgs is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:50 AM
  #679
Ugene Malkin
****!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 20,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
People, he said it's his job to play, not to market the sport. It's not that hard. People are exploding over nothing. He isn't blaming the owners for the lockout, he isn't calling out the owners, all he is doing is saying that it isn't the player's responsibility to market the sport and revive it, which has ALWAYS been the case.
And this is utterly wrong.

The players may not have the advertising aspect but they are very much going to be doing more than just playing well to sell back the fans on the sport.

You know it's funny how the NHLPA had no problem sending out those adds/video's saying it's the owners lockout.

Believe me, they need to do more than just play well, and give access to the fans. Remember that a lot of fans don't have easy access to the players in way of not being in Canada/US or a city in which a NHL team is located in.

I don't expect them to do the leg work, but ideas, player association with the fans without out it costing the fan a dime can be put together with some thought process put together without involving very many.

They certainly can do things like Max did for, Haiti.

Basically just doing your normal job description isn't going to cut it, and this is basically what Brooks is saying.

These players are not brain dead to think above the norm, I would hope.

Both sides have put the game at risk, if the players can't figure out a way to give back without it being cohered for them ahead of time then they're not trying very hard.

It's like *let the maid get it* or....*James fetch my socks good man.*

Heartfelt actions towards the fans without much help will go a long ways compared to pre-written garbage they didn't come up with themselves.

Get together as a group and just do it, I say, the many media outlets will surely help them out with promoting the ideas the players come up with.

That's just me though.

Ugene Malkin is online now  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:52 AM
  #680
ColePens
Global Moderator
Your Savior
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 30,482
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOTO View Post
You're right, he should have volunteered his services for designing some new billboards and print ads, calling up sponsors, and personally groveling at your feet. He should probably also be demanding the breaking of every union, given that they are often damaging to the health of the beautiful free market and breeding grounds of subversive activities (often at the instigation of foreigners [am I the only one who has noticed how many Canadians there are in the NHLPA? wake up people]) and for Don Fehr to be called before the HUAC.

Brooks Orpik and every other hockey player doesn't owe you anything except a decent effort 80-100 nights a year. The idea that they're supposed to acquiesce to management's aims simply because you paid into their industry is no different from any other ******** anti-worker mentality. The fact that a hockey player can make millions changes nothing. Blaming a defenseman for killing hockey is like blaming a baker for killing Hostess. If you have a problem with their salary, go watch someone who makes less (or nothing at all) doing it. They're not hard to find. I mean, I think it's just fundamentally silly to complain about how much money athletes make on the grounds that you're "paying for it" when you're COMPLETELY WILLING TO CONTINUE FUNDING IT 90% OF THE TIME. If anything the chief complaint should be that you keep giving money to owners who are so inept and spend it so poorly that they need to lock the players out and demand significant concessions from the union every time a CBA expires.

I mean, that's not to say the players and the union have been golden through this whole thing, but ****, if you get set off by a pretty harmless comment one of them makes in an interview, you'd better be ****ing constantly enraged at the implications of what the owners are doing, or something's wrong.
You are sooooo far gone I can't even begin to help you. It's pretty simple. I work for a company that operates with clients. It's technically my company's job to get clients, but I realize that the client pays my salary. Therefore, I respect the process and would never say something like that.

Brooks makes his salary on who comes into the arena. This one is so easy I can't even believe people are trying to defend him.

ColePens is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:52 AM
  #681
BrunoPuntzJones
Biscuit Scorer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Yeah, if only the players would do something like involved in their communities and put on charity games and camps during the lockout (and during normal times)...wait.

Wouldn't it be cool if an NHL superstar anonymously showed up to play goalie in some local floor hockey league game?

BrunoPuntzJones is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:54 AM
  #682
ColePens
Global Moderator
Your Savior
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 30,482
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
I'm certainly not pro-players but I don't get the anger over what Orpik said. I understand the question as being about what both sides will do to make up with the fans once the lockout is over. If anything, it's the headline that has a misleading "Let them eat cake" vibe to it.
It's the timing, Burgs. Everyone understands what he was trying to say, but he couldn't have picked a worse spot to say it. It's also our terrible media trying to goat anything out of him for a story, but Brooks has to realize what's going on and just say the right things.

The article highlights and takes the phrase out of context, but Brooks is a professional. He knows better. He knows how important the fans are to the game. It comes across very selfish and for that will get backlash.

These fans of the game have been through so much. Too many lockouts and a lost season. It's painful. Yet... the fans keep coming and coming. They love it. They have to protect that and this lockout has done a POOR job of doing so. It's a highly sensitive time and everyone needs to realize that.

ColePens is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:55 AM
  #683
ColePens
Global Moderator
Your Savior
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 30,482
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOTO View Post
Yeah, if only the players would do something like involved in their communities and put on charity games and camps during the lockout (and during normal times)...wait.

Wouldn't it be cool if an NHL superstar anonymously showed up to play goalie in some local floor hockey league game?
And now you are defending Brooks' comment with what Crosby did? Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree and move on, my friend. Terrible rebuttal.

Nobody is saying owners/players don't give back to society. That would be ridiculous. You just have to realize the timing and where we stand today.

ColePens is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:00 AM
  #684
BrunoPuntzJones
Biscuit Scorer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
You are sooooo far gone I can't even begin to help you. It's pretty simple. I work for a company that operates with clients. It's technically my company's job to get clients, but I realize that the client pays my salary. Therefore, I respect the process and would never say something like that.

Brooks makes his salary on who comes into the arena. This one is so easy I can't even believe people are trying to defend him.
And if your employer prevented you from showing up to work and performing for your clients, would the clients be justified in chewing you out if you simply said your job is to perform for the clients, while it's your employer's job to bring in more clients (using, in large part, your performance history)? I mean, comparing our jobs (I work with/for clients, too) to that of a professional athlete is a weak analogy regardless, since there's really no field with really similar dynamics.

Yeah, Orpik makes his money because you buy tickets, TV packages, etc. He owes you a performance for that. Nothing he said insults you as the fan, unless you're operating on naked resentment towards the players.

Also, immediately saying something is completely indefensible and anyone who attempts to defend it is "so far gone" isn't a useful tactic. I mean, clearly we're coming from different philosophical positions that are unlikely to change and "agree to disagree" is probably the only real resolution, but I'd hope a moderator would know better than to start insulting people (rather than their arguments) like that.


Last edited by BrunoPuntzJones: 12-26-2012 at 10:08 AM.
BrunoPuntzJones is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:02 AM
  #685
BrunoPuntzJones
Biscuit Scorer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tucson, AZ
Country: United States
Posts: 2,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
And now you are defending Brooks' comment with what Crosby did? Sounds like we will have to agree to disagree and move on, my friend. Terrible rebuttal.

Nobody is saying owners/players don't give back to society. That would be ridiculous. You just have to realize the timing and where we stand today.
It's not about Orpik as an individual. (A quick Google search doesn't bring up any items about his charitable works, which doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't done any, but it would be kind of a dick move not to if you're making that much money. Even though he has no obligation, of course.) It's that poster's implication that hockey players need to do more than just play the games to win over fans. They already do TONS of stuff in their communities that counts as fan outreach. Lockout or not. The expectations people have for players (much of which seems to be little else other than vague demands for more), and the failure to even acknowledge where the players are actually meeting (and possibly exceeding) them, are goofy.

I mean, what should a hockey player do to promote the game, aside from play to the best of his abilities (when he's not involved in a labor dispute) and be considerate towards fans and press?


Last edited by BrunoPuntzJones: 12-26-2012 at 10:20 AM.
BrunoPuntzJones is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:32 AM
  #686
Pens1566
Registered User
 
Pens1566's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: WV
Country: United States
Posts: 11,356
vCash: 500
Orpik should have kept his trap shut. Not the first time he's introduced his foot and mouth.

Pens1566 is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:40 AM
  #687
Wes C Addle
Mookie Blaylock
 
Wes C Addle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Allentown, Pa
Country: United States
Posts: 877
vCash: 500
Didn't a group of Pens players do their annual holiday hospital visit recently without involvement from the organization? Also, I give Orpik a lot of props for doing the "If you can play, you can play" spots. NHL players seem to be miles ahead of most other professional athletes when it comes to being progressive about issues like LGBT rights.

I get why some people read the Orpik statement to be insult, (I don't happen to), Brooks has always been pretty blunt about things. I'm not sure either what I expect the players themselves to do once the game starts back up. They already deliver season tickets, pizza to student rushers, they do the charity bowling, hospital visits, bundle up program and I'm sure a lot more. Of course most if not all of this is organized by the PR people, which it should, they're paid to be creative in those ways. Orpiks paid to hit, Crosby's paid to score, and Fleury's paid to stop goals.....occasionally.

I wouldn't expect Brooks and company to be brainstorming up exciting things to do to win back fans. Now, if we ever got word that they were reluctant to do these things or flat out refused, thats a bird of a different feather.

Wes C Addle is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:45 AM
  #688
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 14,173
vCash: 500
Brooks is an ***. Always came off as one to me.

mpp9 is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 10:55 AM
  #689
ColePens
Global Moderator
Your Savior
 
ColePens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 30,482
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to ColePens
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomOTO View Post
It's not about Orpik as an individual. (A quick Google search doesn't bring up any items about his charitable works, which doesn't necessarily mean he hasn't done any, but it would be kind of a dick move not to if you're making that much money. Even though he has no obligation, of course.) It's that poster's implication that hockey players need to do more than just play the games to win over fans. They already do TONS of stuff in their communities that counts as fan outreach. Lockout or not. The expectations people have for players (much of which seems to be little else other than vague demands for more), and the failure to even acknowledge where the players are actually meeting (and possibly exceeding) them, are goofy.

I mean, what should a hockey player do to promote the game, aside from play to the best of his abilities (when he's not involved in a labor dispute) and be considerate towards fans and press?
I think we are arguing two different things and that is where our disconnect is. I'm saying that, in this particular situation, he should have said nothing. Do I agree with him that his job is to play? Absolutely. It's all about timing and I've said that since my first post. This is awful timing due to the sensitive nature of the topic.

Right now fans are quiet and that is quite scary. That means they are giving up hope. Even the actual lockout thread is crazy quiet. Your average fans will take this and be offended due to the timing. He might be 100% right, but this is just piss-poor timing. The media is trying to get ANYTHING for a story. They just need to all be quiet and let the people work through this.

My point is timing. Your point is meaning. I don't think we argue about meaning.

ColePens is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 11:40 AM
  #690
vikingGoalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 756
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
...
Right now fans are quiet and that is quite scary. That means they are giving up hope. Even the actual lockout thread is crazy quiet. ...

This is very telling. Where even us crazy hard core fans, I mean anyone who is reading and posting on a forum about hockey is not in the casual fan department.

If we are starting to lose interest in this whole mess what's that tell you about the damage done thus far. Personally I've given up hope that there is a season anytime soon. They cancel this season there is no guarentee that they even talk until the beginning of next season, let alone start the next season on time.

vikingGoalie is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 11:55 AM
  #691
WickedWrister
Registered User
 
WickedWrister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 4,766
vCash: 500
I'm not missing hockey as much as I thought I would. Hell, I even watched a couple of the Christmas day basketball games.

Go Rockets.

WickedWrister is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 12:54 PM
  #692
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
I don't have that big of a problem with what Orpik said. The timing was bad but at this point, that's a real mole-hill compared to everything else going on, including what some of the other players have said and done. What Kane did recently is 10x worse than what Orpik said. Look, we all know he's got an ego on him, that he's opinionated and that he is as blunt as a player can be with the press. It's not really surprising. What's surprising to me is that it took him this long to say something that pissed people off. If you look at the whole quote and not just the part that makes him sound like he's passing the buck, it's pretty accurate and shows he's not all together out of touch with fans / that he knows it's part of his job to be good to fans, etc.

Quote:
They‘re in charge of that stuff, to market the game,” Orpik said. “The only way we can sell the game as players is to play as well as possible and to be accessible with the fans and media. But the rest is the league‘s job.
That is fundamentally correct. Aside from community give-back, 100% of his job is to play well and be nice to fans and tolerate the media (basically). That's it. Expecting more than that is pretty stupid. Whether or not he IS accessible with fans most of the time, I have no idea. If he's not then I guess you can accuse him of being a dewsh and a hypocrite but if he is, then what else is he supposed to do exactly? Say a bunch of homey-sounding cliches to make us feel like he's "on our side"? I don't give a **** whose side he's on. As long as he's a part of the process, he's a part of the problem. **** the lot of 'em.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 02:06 PM
  #693
Superstar Shane
Registered User
 
Superstar Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 2,842
vCash: 500
I think the overly sensationalized headline makes him sound a lot worse than he actually is.

Superstar Shane is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 02:43 PM
  #694
MetalheadPenguinsFan
Embrace The Hate!!!
 
MetalheadPenguinsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,413
vCash: 50
Stupid comment by Orpik for sure.

Between this, and his seemingly nonstop yammering at the refs last year every time he got a penalty last season (didn't it seem like that was the case...or is it just me???), I've lost quite a bit of respect for him.

MetalheadPenguinsFan is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 05:38 PM
  #695
SHOOTANDSCORE
Registered User
 
SHOOTANDSCORE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,561
vCash: 500
Once the players decided to collectively bargain they became stakeholders and it became their problem. Sorry Brooks.

Not that it matters to me at this point. He (or anyone else) could play the harmonica with his 'butt' hole and it would carry the same weight.


Last edited by SHOOTANDSCORE: 12-26-2012 at 05:46 PM. Reason: To keep the G rating
SHOOTANDSCORE is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 07:10 PM
  #696
Gooch
Registered User
 
Gooch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Seymour, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 13,592
vCash: 500
My problem with what Orpik said is that it just shows that the players want to enjoy the fruits of a successful NHL but don't want to assume any of the responsibility to ensure that it's successful. It's part of the problem I've had from the start with the players.

Gooch is offline  
Old
12-26-2012, 09:51 PM
  #697
AZPenguins
Registered User
 
AZPenguins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Tempe, AZ
Country: Zimbabwe
Posts: 961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
My problem with what Orpik said is that it just shows that the players want to enjoy the fruits of a successful NHL but don't want to assume any of the responsibility to ensure that it's successful. It's part of the problem I've had from the start with the players.
Yeah, as soon as these guys started earning 100s of thousands of dollars it became their problem too.

AZPenguins is offline  
Old
12-27-2012, 07:28 AM
  #698
Coach John McGuirk
Bylstarded
 
Coach John McGuirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 13,705
vCash: 500
Saying players have no responsibility in terms of marketing the game sounds exactly like something Jagr would say. That's my issue with the Orpik comment. In the literal sense, do the players have to worry about putting together marketing and PR packages? No. But do they have to take it upon themselves to be ambassadors to the game and such? Abso-****ing-lutely. He has to look no further than his captain across the dressing room if he wants to know what a player marketing the game means.

Coach John McGuirk is online now  
Old
12-27-2012, 09:11 AM
  #699
Ugene Malkin
****!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: pittsburgh
Country: United States
Posts: 20,492
vCash: 500
Far as I'm concerned the damage has been done. It doesn't matter if they get this done in Jan or in Oct next year, I'm done with these idiots.

Not one sport I even care about if I miss it on daily/monthly schedule.

Thanks for killing my and many others sports enjoyment, all of you, good work, you should be pleased.

I thank you for putting the money in its rightful place, my wallet.



I'm out.

Ugene Malkin is online now  
Old
12-27-2012, 10:06 AM
  #700
Darth Vitale
Moderator
Dark Mod Powers
 
Darth Vitale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Fangorn
Country: United States
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
Guys some of you are analyzing this with idealistic glasses. These guys are hockey players, not MBAs. They don't understand things like market forces, segmentation and all that stuff. They chase a rubber puck around on a sheet of ice for our amusement, have pictures taken with fans, and sign autographs. The end.

Orpik is fundamentally correct (even if he is kind of an a-hole for saying it): it is the league's front office and each team's front office that is responsible for "marketing the game" nationally and locally, and doing damage control from this lockout. Unless you want to group in "being nice to fans and never saying anything that will upset anyone" as "marketing" -- which is a stretch.

Until Orpik starts treating fans like dirt (maybe he already does -- as noted I have no idea on that), you're just spinning your wheels. It's a free country the guy has a right to voice his opinion even if his timing demonstrates he doesn't have much common sense or tact. Like I said I don't give a crap what he or any other player thinks about damage control or marketing. All I know is they're doing nothing to find a solution and one was staring them in the face a couple weeks ago so... their words mean jack squat.

Darth Vitale is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:38 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.