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Old
12-26-2012, 12:53 PM
  #376
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Originally Posted by Dick Sledge View Post
I see a lot of mock drafts that have us get Lacy in the second. At the same time some have us getting Te'o in the first. Neither of which I could see happening. Not saying we wouldn't love either but I doubt Te'o will be there for our pick and that the front office thinks RB would be a pick in the 2nd where we have more needs to fill.

After watching a lot of youtube vids on Mingo I don't really like that pick all that much. Some have Mingo slated for our pick as well. I'm personally hoping Jarvis Jones drops to us. Unlikely as it may seem. I can see Banks or one of the NT/DT available being our first round pick.
Not really a fan of Mingo. His stock has dropped a little. He's one dimensional rusher. I think he's a boom or bust prospect. He have elite speed and is very athletic. Some compare him to Jevon Kearse. I don't see it.

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12-26-2012, 01:00 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Not really a fan of Mingo. His stock has dropped a little. He's one dimensional rusher. I think he's a boom or bust prospect. He have elite speed and is very athletic. Some compare him to Jevon Kearse. I don't see it.
Ya after watching some game videos of him he gets stuffed one on one way too often for someone who's supposed to be an elite passrusher worthy of a mid to high first round pick.

We need a playmaker on defense in the first. He may be our pick and may turn out but at the moment I don't see it.

I do believe someone will fall to us. Some GM is going to fall in love with the guys like Ansah or Hunt based on the combine and over draft. Or there could be a run on either Oline or even QB's before our pick that has some great prospects dropping. Like I've said I would love for Jones or Te'o to drop to us. It's extremely unlikely but I wouldn't have thought DD would have either.

I honestly think we can get 2 really good players in the first and second rounds. This draft is solid, not top heavy obviously but solid throughout.


Last edited by Dick Sledge: 12-26-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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Old
12-26-2012, 01:08 PM
  #378
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I completely forgot about Lattimore. He's easily a first round talent so if he's available in the 3rd or 4th I say why the hell not. We took Heath who fell to us off an injury in the first. Maybe strike gold twice.
Lattimore's injury was so bad, he torn 3 ligaments on his right knee. Last year, he torn a ligament on his left knee so he'll have 2 reconstructed knees. He won't have a long career in NFL, maybe up to 5 years.

Willis McGahee have similar injury to Lattimore and Buffalo took him in first round which was a shocker. He didn't pay in his rookie season at all.

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12-26-2012, 01:13 PM
  #379
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The thing you have to look at with RB's is the mileage they have on them. Mendenhall was what you're sort of looking for. He was a young, highly talented runner who had almost no yards on him. He came into the NFL with very minimal wear and tear.

Lattimore has been a workhorse for USC since he set foot in Columbia. He's had a ton of touches, ran for a ton of yards, and has been hit a bunch. Yeah, great mid-late round pick if he can work out at all, but man...he has been used and abused.


I we lose this weekend, we should be somewhere in the low teens. There will be some really great players there, but because of that, I can see a lot of teams wanted to trade up. Like I said, there's a handful of guys that I'd stay in the top of the 1st round...Teo, Lotulelei, and Warmack.

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12-26-2012, 01:22 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by sniugneP View Post
Lattimore's injury was so bad, he torn 3 ligaments on his right knee. Last year, he torn a ligament on his left knee so he'll have 2 reconstructed knees. He won't have a long career in NFL, maybe up to 5 years.

Willis McGahee have similar injury to Lattimore and Buffalo took him in first round which was a shocker. He didn't pay in his rookie season at all.
I'm not saying take him early at all.

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Old
12-26-2012, 03:31 PM
  #381
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I don't think the Steelers are going to be much better than 8-8 next year unless they stop clinging to outdated philosophies. Time of possession isn't how the game is played anymore - it's about scoring.

The Steelers want to keep it close though. They want the defense to have to win it in a close one. They want run, run, pass, or run, bubble screen, pass until the game gets out of hand. Only then they'll unleash Ben. And when they play that way, Ben won't bail them out every time.

Art Rooney II has to figure out which is more important - being right in regards to outdated philosophies, or winning.

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12-26-2012, 03:51 PM
  #382
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Time of possession will really always be how you win football games. The problem with this team is that it didn't finish off enough of those drives on a consistent basis. When this Steelers team was at it's best over the past 10-15 years, it would routinely start games out with 13-15 min drives and cap them off with touchdowns. Taking time off the clock and not scoring can actually be a detriment to you, especially if the other team is scoring.

I'd actually like to see this team return MORE to it's roots, and play with a 2 man backfield more often.

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12-26-2012, 04:49 PM
  #383
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Time of possession will really always be how you win football games. The problem with this team is that it didn't finish off enough of those drives on a consistent basis. When this Steelers team was at it's best over the past 10-15 years, it would routinely start games out with 13-15 min drives and cap them off with touchdowns. Taking time off the clock and not scoring can actually be a detriment to you, especially if the other team is scoring.

I'd actually like to see this team return MORE to it's roots, and play with a 2 man backfield more often.
That's not the direction the NFL is going though.

Now, I will give you that most of the time the team that wins generally wins time of possession. But many of those teams are more concerned about scoring than just possessing. They'll take shots down field for a quick score. With the Steelers, they seem more concerned with just possessing. Otherwise, why did Haley hold the WRs to routes that only went 5-10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage most of the time? The Steelers took it to the extreme with time of possession, and thus took points away from themselves. It's a quick strike league. They need to stop fearing the quick strike teams and become one.

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12-26-2012, 06:14 PM
  #384
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Steelers announce that Maurkice Pouncey and Heath Miller are Pro Bowlers.

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12-26-2012, 06:41 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
That's not the direction the NFL is going though.

Now, I will give you that most of the time the team that wins generally wins time of possession. But many of those teams are more concerned about scoring than just possessing. They'll take shots down field for a quick score. With the Steelers, they seem more concerned with just possessing. Otherwise, why did Haley hold the WRs to routes that only went 5-10 yards beyond the line of scrimmage most of the time? The Steelers took it to the extreme with time of possession, and thus took points away from themselves. It's a quick strike league. They need to stop fearing the quick strike teams and become one.
I was under the impression it was because they wanted to limit Ben's exposure to contact.

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12-26-2012, 06:41 PM
  #386
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Fantastic news! So glad Heath got his due

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12-26-2012, 07:00 PM
  #387
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I was under the impression it was because they wanted to limit Ben's exposure to contact.
First of all, they failed to avoid getting him injured. Secondly, at some point you have to stop worrying about what "could" happen and just play. Keeping Ben healthy for the playoffs won't matter if there are no playoffs for the Steelers.

Schemes don't protect QBs, offensive lines do.

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12-26-2012, 07:14 PM
  #388
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First of all, they failed to avoid getting him injured. Secondly, at some point you have to stop worrying about what "could" happen and just play. Keeping Ben healthy for the playoffs won't matter if there are no playoffs for the Steelers.

Schemes don't protect QBs, offensive lines do.
Ben got hurt, but fact remains, he took half the sacks this year that he has over the last few seasons. Getting the ball out quicker did have a lot to do with limiting the time Ben could get hit.

I don't buy into it being a quick strike league. Time of possession is still king. Being able to have a balanced attack is still king. Having deep threats is nice because it's just easier for wideouts to get off coverage since the rules are strict on the 5 yards.

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12-26-2012, 07:17 PM
  #389
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Ben did hang onto the ball forever on the play that he got injured. Really nothing the O-Line could have done on that one. I think that's what the Steelers are trying to limit. Design some more plays to get the ball out quicker and cut down on the hits he takes but there still are many plays where he gets to hang onto it and do his thing. It actually worked really well up until the KC game. He just wasn't the same guy after he returned from injury and consequently the offense sucked.

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12-26-2012, 07:30 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
Ben got hurt, but fact remains, he took half the sacks this year that he has over the last few seasons. Getting the ball out quicker did have a lot to do with limiting the time Ben could get hit.

I don't buy into it being a quick strike league. Time of possession is still king. Being able to have a balanced attack is still king. Having deep threats is nice because it's just easier for wideouts to get off coverage since the rules are strict on the 5 yards.
Then why aren't the Steelers in the playoffs and teams like the Patriots and Broncos are? How many times has the Steelers offense owned TOP and the defense blew a lead anyways. It's no longer what it once was. It's about scoring. The Steelers need to stop being scared of the quick strike teams and become one. They are no longer built to be a "grind it out" team.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:36 PM
  #391
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Steelers Offense 2012 Rank:

- Pass plays: 58.9%
- Run plays: 41.1%
- Total yards: 21st
- Passing yards: 11th
- Net yards/passing attempt: 17th (Ben = 6.52, Batch = 6.34)
- Rushing yards: 26th
- Net yards/rushing attempt: 26th
- Points: 22nd

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12-26-2012, 07:40 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
Then why aren't the Steelers in the playoffs and teams like the Patriots and Broncos are? How many times has the Steelers offense owned TOP and the defense blew a lead anyways. It's no longer what it once was. It's about scoring. The Steelers need to stop being scared of the quick strike teams and become one. They are no longer built to be a "grind it out" team.
Those teams have significantly better quarterbacks than ours who can (successfully) call plays at the line and read a defensive coverage scheme in less than 1 second. Ben has a lot of good qualities, but reading a defensive shell isn't one of them. It's why he holds onto the ball for so long to begin with. Between his wide receivers and Miller he has one of the best receiving corps in the league so why is he holding onto the ball forever?

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12-26-2012, 07:49 PM
  #393
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Those teams have significantly better quarterbacks than ours who can (successfully) call plays at the line and read a defensive coverage scheme in less than 1 second. Ben has a lot of good qualities, but reading a defensive shell isn't one of them. It's why he holds onto the ball for so long to begin with. Between his wide receivers and Miller he has one of the best receiving corps in the league so why is he holding onto the ball forever?
And so does Ben. He's excelled in the no-huddle when it's used. In the past he's held onto the ball for longer than he should have, but this year is was mainly on the receivers not getting open.

I really don't get why people think that Ben can't read defenses. If he couldn't, there's no way he would have made it this far in the NFL.

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12-26-2012, 07:49 PM
  #394
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He's more than capable as a pocket passer. Top half of the league for sure. But he will never be as good as Brady or Manning at strict pocket passing. Its what he can do after the pocket is breaking down that bumps him towards the top of the QB rankings. Ben thrives on playground football.

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12-26-2012, 07:50 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by UnrealMachine View Post
Steelers Offense 2012 Rank:

- Pass plays: 58.9%
- Run plays: 41.1%
- Total yards: 21st
- Passing yards: 11th
- Net yards/passing attempt: 17th (Ben = 6.52, Batch = 6.34)
- Rushing yards: 26th
- Net yards/rushing attempt: 26th
- Points: 22nd
Careful now, those stats can be misleading. How many of the pass plays were bubble screens or check downs?

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12-26-2012, 07:56 PM
  #396
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
And so does Ben. He's excelled in the no-huddle when it's used. In the past he's held onto the ball for longer than he should have, but this year is was mainly on the receivers not getting open.

I really don't get why people think that Ben can't read defenses. If he couldn't, there's no way he would have made it this far in the NFL.
No one said he couldn't read a defense. What was said is that he cannot do it as well as the truly elite quarterbacks in the league. How many of his passes are from a 3-step drop (not counting bubble screens)? I'm sure there is a stat out there for average time taken from snap until throw and there is no way Ben is even in the top 10 in that category. Might even be bottom 10.

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12-26-2012, 07:57 PM
  #397
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Careful now, those stats can be misleading. How many of the pass plays were bubble screens or check downs?
They aren't really misleading. Bubble screens and check downs are designed throwing plays. I've seen other teams use both of those plays as well on numerous occasions.

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12-26-2012, 08:02 PM
  #398
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They aren't really misleading. Bubble screens and check downs are designed throwing plays. I've seen other teams use both of those plays as well on numerous occasions.
Yes they are passes, but they work the same way as running plays. The stubborn, old-school yinzers who look at those stats think Ben is throwing it around like crazy. It's not about how many throws, it's about what kind.

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12-26-2012, 08:03 PM
  #399
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No one said he couldn't read a defense. What was said is that he cannot do it as well as the truly elite quarterbacks in the league. How many of his passes are from a 3-step drop (not counting bubble screens)? I'm sure there is a stat out there for average time taken from snap until throw and there is no way Ben is even in the top 10 in that category. Might even be bottom 10.
And you think Brady and Manning are always making quick throws? Those guys hold onto the ball at times too and their offensive lines give them time.

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12-26-2012, 08:05 PM
  #400
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No one said he couldn't read a defense. What was said is that he cannot do it as well as the truly elite quarterbacks in the league. How many of his passes are from a 3-step drop (not counting bubble screens)? I'm sure there is a stat out there for average time taken from snap until throw and there is no way Ben is even in the top 10 in that category. Might even be bottom 10.
We don't have a great slot guy for him to throw it to. Ben is certainly capable of a 3 step drop. He isn't elite in that regard certainly; but he's more than capable. But Heath is really the only great slot guy we have. And Heath has to block an awful lot.

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