HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

I just witnessed a game...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-10-2003, 09:57 AM
  #26
TexSen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Schaefer..Beer..mmmm
Country: United States
Posts: 1,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
One more time, Naslund is not a top 5 player until he wins a cup.
So Borque didn't become a top 5 D-man until that final year in Colorado?

TexSen is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:00 AM
  #27
Kukla
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: motown
Posts: 456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexSen
So Borque didn't become a top 5 D-man until that final year in Colorado?
Read my thread, it says Naslund is not a top 5 until he wins a cup. Nothing in there about Borque or any other player.

Kukla is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:08 AM
  #28
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Murica
Country: United States
Posts: 19,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas_Bert_Morr
Modano is not overrated imo. He is one of the best forwards in the game, but I will only give credit where its due. He has taken a step backward over the last couple seasons and now has a handful of forwards easily on top of him.


I will give you this season (which is far from over), but how did Modano take a step backwards last season?

Rabid Ranger is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:11 AM
  #29
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas_Bert_Morr
Modano is not overrated imo. He is one of the best forwards in the game, but I will only give credit where its due. He has taken a step backward over the last couple seasons and now has a handful of forwards easily on top of him.
Based upon what exactly? You mean his measily 85 points recorded last season? The season in which he finished to be a top 10 Selke candidate for a 6th consecutive time? The exact same season in which he managed to receive more first place votes than Joe Thornton in the hart trophy race? Or do you base it on his current start? Cause if you do, which I hope not, you really haven't followed Mike's career much. Mike has been among the slowest starters in the game, I believe he has averaged around a 0.78 before the All-Star break, and then turning it up to an 1.27 after it, and these are career averages, in fact, last season, was Mike Modano's best start ever. Recording 23 points in 21 games, just goes to show what a starter Mo really is.

Secondly, this season Mo has probably started out even worse then ever. However, not all that much below his starting average but since the random NHL fan only looks at his age and his numbers, they do nothing but critisize him for "old", "done", "over-the-hill" and "overpaid", which is pretty darn inaccurate. That, and I wanna see you or Naslund, or Morrison, Linden, Bouck, God knows who you put in the same boat, try to play up to your potential when you just lost 15 million dollars. To top it off, instead of the media backing it up and using that as an excuse, they critisize and blame Mike Modano and Mike Modano entirely for his respective team's horrendous start. Mentioning these things like he is not "in" the game anymore (sounds like some cheap EA commercial, doesn't it?), how he should be stripped off capitainicy, a load that you can't just whipe off your shoulder.

Thanks to Ken Hitchcock, Mike Modano will always be a defensively comitted forward and will always be usefull, whether he produces or not. This is not the case with Markus Naslund, he can't and likely never will compensate such things if his offensive isn't running, to me, that makes him useless. Granted he's consistant though..

Anyway, critisize Mike Modano for not having his head in the game, blame him for his team's poor start and heck, blame him for being an awful Captain, I really coudn't care less as he has a pretty damned good excuse for either reason. But Mike Modano has not taken a step backwards over the last few years, maybe his linemates have (From Hull and Lehtinen to grinders, rookies and defensive specialists), but his skillset and overall talent hasn't decreased one bit. I believe his lack of effort offensively all comes from within his head, this he even admitted so.

That said, somehow I do not see Modano, and with him, the Stars making a sudden turn. I see the two continueing their current trend, playing inconsistant and underachieving hockey. But Mike will remain a force, even when not contributing at the scoreboard. That's the beauty of complete players, and the downside of one way wonders.

But hey, like I said, I just am an outsider that views the more all-round forwards over the one way tickets. In which case I'll say it again:

Quote:
Ah well.. guess being a consistant ppg player and legit Selke threat is not "in" these days. Enjoy the oneway wonders who start to deliver when they near their 30's

Ajacied is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:11 AM
  #30
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Murica
Country: United States
Posts: 19,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountie
The point is not about Naslund scoring four against the Pens. At least, I don't think it should be. The way the opening post is done isn't really the best, because it may sort of lead that way, but the point is that Naslund is one of the bes tplayers in the league.

In response to the other comments: I don't think that Modano or Palffy are even close to Naslund. I find Modano the single most over-rated player in the league (personal bias, I acknowledge others don't agree) though I am not certain a convincing argument can be made to say Palffy is equal to Naslund...period. Offensively, defensively, leadership, anything.

Fedorov's all around game may be comparable, but personally I think Naslund would be higher on NHL GM's wish list.



Would you mind explaining why Modano is the "single most overrated player in the league? Also, how can you say Fedorov's game is comparable to Naslund's, but Modano's (who is a similar player to Fedorov) isn't?

Rabid Ranger is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:13 AM
  #31
#2FAN
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nas_Bert_Morr
Modano is not overrated imo. He is one of the best forwards in the game, but I will only give credit where its due. He has taken a step backward over the last couple seasons and now has a handful of forwards easily on top of him.
Last season Modano had 85 points in 79 games and was a +34. He was one of the most dominant on both ends of the ice and has been for some time now. I really don't see how he took a couple steps backwords.

 
Old
12-10-2003, 10:27 AM
  #32
Arastiroth
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Manhattan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
One more time, Naslund is not a top 5 player until he wins a cup.
Why does anyone need to win a cup to prove anything? If Naslund scored 37 pts in the playoffs last year (and his team somehow managed not to win the cup) would people still complaing that "he has to win the cup to be great"? I do, however, agree his post season play leaves something to be desired, but winning the cup is overrated, imo. All it takes is a great team (Colorado, Detroit, NJ are recent examples) or a few hot streaks at the same time (Anaheim, Carolina) to win. Sure, it is a huge accomplishment, but to use that as a major evalution of a player is silly, imo. Look at performance, not team results.

Would Bourque be any less of a player if he didn't win the cup in Colorado? Is he a better player because he did?

Arastiroth is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 10:33 AM
  #33
#2FAN
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanguay40
Why does anyone need to win a cup to prove anything? If Naslund scored 37 pts in the playoffs last year (and his team somehow managed not to win the cup) would people still complaing that "he has to win the cup to be great"? I do, however, agree his post season play leaves something to be desired, but winning the cup is overrated, imo. All it takes is a great team (Colorado, Detroit, NJ are recent examples) or a few hot streaks at the same time (Anaheim, Carolina) to win. Sure, it is a huge accomplishment, but to use that as a major evalution of a player is silly, imo. Look at performance, not team results.

Would Bourque be any less of a player if he didn't win the cup in Colorado? Is he a better player because he did?
I am not too high on Bourque as it is, he had plenty of good shots with Boston and ended up taking the easy way out and demand for a trade to a contender. I never really seen him as a great defensive defensmen anyway.

 
Old
12-10-2003, 11:53 AM
  #34
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,450
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
M=G would take Modano... I would take Naslund.

He has his reasons, I have mine... does that mean his opinon is any less valid than mine?

People have forgotten that these boards are for voicing an opinion. Not voicing an opinion and then getting called a retard!

We may not agree with each other, but I think the majority of the posters here have a strong knowledge for the game, so for any of us to come on an say "your opinion of (said palyer) is stupid cause I say so" is in itself a pretty stupid statement.

let us have our opinions. Naslund could win the Selke, Hart, Art Ross, and a Cup this season and that still wouldn't be enough for some people...

So be it.

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 11:57 AM
  #35
King of Kelvington
Registered User
 
King of Kelvington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,157
vCash: 500
...keep it up canucks fans, yer makin us leaf fans look more realistic every day...

King of Kelvington is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:02 PM
  #36
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,450
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCJr
...keep it up canucks fans, yer makin us leaf fans look more realistic every day...
I'm sorry... I don't understand the gist of your post? Can you elaborate?

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:03 PM
  #37
AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,852
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar Send a message via MSN to AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCJr
...keep it up canucks fans, yer makin us leaf fans look more realistic every day...
no kidding.

AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:12 PM
  #38
King of Kelvington
Registered User
 
King of Kelvington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,157
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
I'm sorry... I don't understand the gist of your post? Can you elaborate?
Nah, its pretty self-explanitory.

King of Kelvington is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:14 PM
  #39
AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 4,852
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar Send a message via MSN to AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar
I think tolerable is a better word then realistic


AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:20 PM
  #40
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
M=G would take Modano... I would take Naslund.

He has his reasons, I have mine... does that mean his opinon is any less valid than mine?

People have forgotten that these boards are for voicing an opinion. Not voicing an opinion and then getting called a retard!
True Dan, but those opinions need valid and legit arguments and statements, or even facts to back them up. Or else, what's the point of discussing these topics? Anyone can state their opinion, but the stronger their reasoning the stronger their credibility.

Ajacied is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:22 PM
  #41
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,450
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCJr
Nah, its pretty self-explanitory.
I must be missing something then. I don't think leafs fans are any worse than any other fans.

Just because fans of a team want and feel that their team should do well.... ahh what's the point.

No one appreciates anyones opinion here. I think Canucks fas are some of the best posters. But so are Leafs fans IMO... two markets that are inundated with hockey 24 hours a day.

I will trust their opinions over NFL market teams anyday.

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 12:35 PM
  #42
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,526
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
One more time, Naslund is not a top 5 player until he wins a cup.
So I guess Thornton isnt a top 10 player, and Pronger isnt a top 5 d-man?

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 01:25 PM
  #43
Thalia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkwjr
Read my thread, it says Naslund is not a top 5 until he wins a cup. Nothing in there about Borque or any other player.
And why is that... do you have one set of scales for Naslund and another set for the rest of the players?

As others have pointed out: "Sure, it is a huge accomplishment [winning the Cup], but to use that as a major evalution of a player is silly, imo. Look at performance, not team results."


Last edited by Thalia: 12-10-2003 at 01:41 PM.
Thalia is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 05:25 PM
  #44
Thalia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Scotland
Posts: 4,792
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCJr
...keep it up canucks fans, yer makin us leaf fans look more realistic every day...
Question: Who was the last player on the Leafs to score 4 goals in one night and when was it... anyone?

Thalia is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 07:26 PM
  #45
ehc73
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,943
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to ehc73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
M=G would take Modano... I would take Naslund.

He has his reasons, I have mine... does that mean his opinon is any less valid than mine?

People have forgotten that these boards are for voicing an opinion. Not voicing an opinion and then getting called a retard!

We may not agree with each other, but I think the majority of the posters here have a strong knowledge for the game, so for any of us to come on an say "your opinion of (said palyer) is stupid cause I say so" is in itself a pretty stupid statement.

let us have our opinions. Naslund could win the Selke, Hart, Art Ross, and a Cup this season and that still wouldn't be enough for some people...

So be it.
A voice of reason. Finally...

ehc73 is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 07:41 PM
  #46
LaVal
Registered User
 
LaVal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
True Dan, but those opinions need valid and legit arguments and statements, or even facts to back them up. Or else, what's the point of discussing these topics? Anyone can state their opinion, but the stronger their reasoning the stronger their credibility.
there is no real need for backing up opinions... but even in this case both supporting arguments were stated for both players. so who's facts are better and determine the better player? that's right... we end up back to opinion.

also you state there is no relevance to stats when people point out Modano's poor start but you list stats in your arguments.

i'd consider Modano a top-10 player... not a top 5. i have also seen him play and it's obvious he's not having a good start to this season, stats or not.

----------------

i'd put Naslund in the top-5 behind Lidstrom, Brodeur, and Forsberg. the only thing that makes Forsberg higher on the list IMO is the fact that he plays more physical than Naslund.

BCF is dead on though. everybody has different tastes and preferences.

LaVal is offline  
Old
12-10-2003, 08:28 PM
  #47
#2FAN
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Mine is defense with a mix of offense, the style that usually wins over defenive liabilities.

 
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.