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Fleury to Chicago

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:04 PM
  #101
Dragon Priest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Superunknown94 View Post
Crawford = Fleury (some might argue Crawford is better at this point)
Saad > Jeffrey
Sharp >>>> Kennedy.

This proposal is horrible for the Hawks.
Now that's just laughable.

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:10 PM
  #102
xX Hot Fuss
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Fleury is absolutely an upgrade over Crawford, but certainly nowhere near enough of an upgrade to justify trading Sharp who, for the 1,000,000th time has a NMC and will NOT BE MOVED EVER, as well as our best prospect in Saad.

The Hawks are no closer to a cup after this deal than they currently are now. If Sharp is traded for a goalie i'd rather trade for Lehtonen + or Varlamov++ than Fleury

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:15 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Fleury's not better than Osgood or Niemi. All three are/were average NHL goaltenders who happened to be on great teams.

Winning a cup as a goaltender is highly overrated. Give me guys like Rinne, Lundqvist, and Kiprusoff who don't have Cups (yet) but are solid every single season over a scrub like Fleury who lucky enough to play on the team with the two best Centers in Hockey.
Did you happen to catch a handful of Penguins games when BOTH of the "best centers" in hockey were out of the line up a few years ago? Jordan Staal was still in the line up, sure, but it can be argued that MAF was the Penguins best player at times during the rough injury stretch. He keep the Pens in games. C'mon, Brett Sterling was their goal scoring threat there for a few weeks a couple of seasons ago. That's how banged up they were. Fleury was stellar and kept the Penguins afloat.

Heres the thing around the NHL AND for fans in Pittsburgh, whenever Fleury is playing well, no one says a word or critiques his game. When he is playing poorly or had a bad game, everyone wants him traded and he is looked at as a "scrub". If the Pens lose, no matter what, its his fault. Shame the blame has to ALWAYS fall on the goalie. This is the same in the NFL with Quarterbacks. The ENTIRE team plays the game. It doesn't come down to one single guy.

But its easier for fans to point the finger at Fleury following his melt down against the Flyers. I'm the first one to stand up for Fleury. I've watched just about every single one of his games since his first game as a Penguin in October 2003. And I could say that the series against the Flyers was the worst I have ever seen him play. Defense was nonexistent as well, but with the way Fleury played, it makes it hard to win an argument for him. I know what he is capable off. I've seen him play at a very high level. I'm confident he can get back to that. Unfortunately, we don't have NHL hockey right now to see that.

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:57 PM
  #104
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An errant stick laying across the crease would've stopped Crawford's last 2 playoff OT blunders.

I know he's played very well for the most part, and other goalies have had some pretty lacklustre performances in the PO's (Fleury, even Luongo - since some will see my avatar and retaliate), but for me, those were 2 of the worst goals I've ever seen with a playoff game/series directly on the line. Ever.

I'd find it difficult to confidently roll with Crawford as my #1 if I was a Chicago fan. It's not like all hope is lost on him, though. I bet he is still their starter whenever they start playing again. I'd just be sketchy about him.

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12-26-2012, 06:05 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
An errant stick laying across the crease would've stopped Crawford's last 2 playoff OT blunders.

I know he's played very well for the most part, and other goalies have had some pretty lacklustre performances in the PO's (Fleury, even Luongo - since some will see my avatar and retaliate), but for me, those were 2 of the worst goals I've ever seen with a playoff game/series directly on the line. Ever.

I'd find it difficult to confidently roll with Crawford as my #1 if I was a Chicago fan. It's not like all hope is lost on him, though. I bet he is still their starter whenever they start playing again. I'd just be sketchy about him.
We are all a little timid about Crow right now- we don't know what to expect from him- last year he was trash, but the year before he was amazing. Noone know who the real Crow is.

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Old
12-26-2012, 06:38 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
An errant stick laying across the crease would've stopped Crawford's last 2 playoff OT blunders.

I know he's played very well for the most part, and other goalies have had some pretty lacklustre performances in the PO's (Fleury, even Luongo - since some will see my avatar and retaliate), but for me, those were 2 of the worst goals I've ever seen with a playoff game/series directly on the line. Ever.

I'd find it difficult to confidently roll with Crawford as my #1 if I was a Chicago fan. It's not like all hope is lost on him, though. I bet he is still their starter whenever they start playing again. I'd just be sketchy about him.
Everything you're saying is correct.. but it doesn't justify trading away Patrick Sharp who is one of our best players.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:06 PM
  #107
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Look, the OP offer is awful for Chicago, but the fact that ANYONE is actually suggesting that Crawford is as good or (lol) even better than Fleury is just embarrassingly biased.

I know Hawks fans have a tendency to MASSIVELY overrate their own players, but seriously this is getting ridiculous.

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Old
12-26-2012, 07:53 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
Look, the OP offer is awful for Chicago, but the fact that ANYONE is actually suggesting that Crawford is as good or (lol) even better than Fleury is just embarrassingly biased.

I know Hawks fans have a tendency to MASSIVELY overrate their own players, but seriously this is getting ridiculous.
Crawford is as bad as Fleury at much cheaper price

Thus why we would rather go with Crawford ,, Last 3 years Fleury has been absolutely awful in playoffs and he makes too much $$$ so he is not viable for a team like Hawks since he is no guaranteed upgrade

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Old
12-26-2012, 08:30 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
Look, the OP offer is awful for Chicago, but the fact that ANYONE is actually suggesting that Crawford is as good or (lol) even better than Fleury is just embarrassingly biased.

I know Hawks fans have a tendency to MASSIVELY overrate their own players, but seriously this is getting ridiculous.
Hawks fans are saying Fleury isn't a big enough upgrade over Crawford to justify moving Sharp AND saad.

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Old
12-26-2012, 08:39 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
I know Hawks fans have a tendency to MASSIVELY overrate their own players, but seriously this is getting ridiculous.
Why specify just Blackhawk fans? This is true for every fanbase of any sport.

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Old
12-26-2012, 09:04 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Hawks fans are saying Fleury isn't a big enough upgrade over Crawford to justify moving Sharp AND saad.
Sharp OR Saad, actually.

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Old
12-26-2012, 10:31 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by xX Hot Fuss View Post
Hawks fans are saying Fleury isn't a big enough upgrade over Crawford to justify moving Sharp AND saad.
It's questionable if he's an upgrade at all, and he's certainly not worth Saad OR Sharp. Nor is he worth his the $5.5 - 5.75 mil per year he makes this year and the next two. On top of that - with the lowered cap coming whenever this CBA gets resolved, the Hawks won't have the cap space for Fleury even if they had a brain fart and wanted to acquire him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Crawford is as bad as Fleury at much cheaper price

Thus why we would rather go with Crawford ,, Last 3 years Fleury has been absolutely awful in playoffs and he makes too much $$$ so he is not viable for a team like Hawks since he is no guaranteed upgrade
That sums it up well.

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:53 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Red Line View Post
Look, the OP offer is awful for Chicago, but the fact that ANYONE is actually suggesting that Crawford is as good or (lol) even better than Fleury is just embarrassingly biased.

I know Hawks fans have a tendency to MASSIVELY overrate their own players, but seriously this is getting ridiculous.
Fleury is an average goaltender who is incredibly inconsistent. Who is better boards on semantics because neither solves Chicago's goaltending woes. If they were to give up either Saad or Sharp, then one would expect the player returned solves an issue. If a trade were to go down, Vancouver could and would make a more reasonable offer, just to show a comparison.

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:54 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
An errant stick laying across the crease would've stopped Crawford's last 2 playoff OT blunders.

I know he's played very well for the most part, and other goalies have had some pretty lacklustre performances in the PO's (Fleury, even Luongo - since some will see my avatar and retaliate), but for me, those were 2 of the worst goals I've ever seen with a playoff game/series directly on the line. Ever.

I'd find it difficult to confidently roll with Crawford as my #1 if I was a Chicago fan. It's not like all hope is lost on him, though. I bet he is still their starter whenever they start playing again. I'd just be sketchy about him.
Too true.. and Pittsburgh probably would have had a better chance at winning their series against Philly with a half-sized, Fleury cutout tending the net than Fleury himself.

But, I digress. The real question is.. would you rather have a sketchy, and at best average goaltender making 5M per year for 2 more years after this season or a sketchy, at best average goaltender making 2.6M per for 1 more season after this one? It's not a hard thing to figure out from Chicago's perspective.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:13 AM
  #115
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MAF is getting trashed in this thread. I can't sit by and watch this. His trade value is low because he hasn't lived up to his contract but he is not "average at best". The guy has an incredible amount of talent and has some great hot stretches, but he needs a decent goalie coach that can help him not lose his net and maintain focus. I'd love to see him in Chicago w/ Tretiak back as coach. That just leaves the question of whether Pittsburgh wants to launch him or not.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:26 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
MAF is getting trashed in this thread. I can't sit by and watch this. His trade value is low because he hasn't lived up to his contract but he is not "average at best". The guy has an incredible amount of talent and has some great hot stretches, but he needs a decent goalie coach that can help him not lose his net and maintain focus. I'd love to see him in Chicago w/ Tretiak back as coach. That just leaves the question of whether Pittsburgh wants to launch him or not.
If MAF wasn't the 1st overall pick of his draft, no one would argue that he's anything more than an average NHL starter. He has outstanding athletic ability, but when it comes to stopping the puck, the proof is in the pudding.. or, the back of the net, in this case.

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:53 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
If MAF wasn't the 1st overall pick of his draft, no one would argue that he's anything more than an average NHL starter. He has outstanding athletic ability, but when it comes to stopping the puck, the proof is in the pudding.. or, the back of the net, in this case.
On the totality of his career average is fair. He's had better regular seasons than non-Pen fans realize, but it's nothing to vault him into Vezina recogonition.

But if we can rail on Fleury, who at least backed up the 1st overall pick inconsistently, what in the world do you think non-Hawks fans think of Crawford?

Don't waste the time with the Sharp/Saad strawmen.

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Old
12-27-2012, 10:04 AM
  #118
digdug41982
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
If MAF wasn't the 1st overall pick of his draft, no one would argue that he's anything more than an average NHL starter. He has outstanding athletic ability, but when it comes to stopping the puck, the proof is in the pudding.. or, the back of the net, in this case.
He was rushed to the NHL and has been brutal in the playoffs the last few years. However, he is usually above average in the regular season.

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Old
12-27-2012, 12:18 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by penguins2946 View Post
Kane and Crawford for Fleury, Jeffery and Morrow (8.0 C on Hockey's Future)

If that's a no, there's nothing else to talk about here.
What was the point of writing this? If Kane was going there, it would have been for Staal. If Kane was to go there now, it would be for Sutter and Pouliot. What would make you think you could trade for Kane without giving up your top prospect or top trading chip? Furthermore, why the hell would the Hawks move Kane without a good center coming back?

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Old
12-27-2012, 01:21 PM
  #120
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lol @ calling Fleury a top 10 goalie.

He has been in the top 10 in SV% in any given season since his career started ONCE. That was in 2007-2008, when he played near the bare minimum to be 'qualified' among the leaders for that category.

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Old
12-27-2012, 01:44 PM
  #121
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Stats!

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