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Mika Zibanejad is the real deal 2.0

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Old
12-26-2012, 04:31 PM
  #251
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Patience everyone, this kid is a keeper and will develop at his own pace.

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12-26-2012, 04:36 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Allaboard View Post
Patience everyone, this kid is a keeper and will develop at his own pace.
Thanks, we can close the thread now.

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12-27-2012, 12:58 AM
  #253
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My standards may be high, but I certainly am not expecting exceptional play out of him. That would be unreasonable out of most prospects.

He simply needs to be better.
See this is where I feel a lot of people are irrational and unreasonable. All you have said this entire thread is he simply just needs to be better, without even adding input as to what areas he could be..

From the 5 or 6 games I got to catch of Zibanejad early this year I thought he was one of the stand outs easily on a terrible team (early on). He performed well defensively anticipating the play and picking off passes on numerous occasions. He drives to the net like a power forward and does it often. He needs to add muscle to his frame to be more effective at it, but he does it which is great. He performed better offensively than his stats give him credit for, often being a threat when he stepped onto the ice. He hit a few posts which would have padded his stats a little bit more had they bounced the right way. He has excellent hands and pulled off some stellar dangles. From what I saw, everything is there.

In my opinion the only thing holding him back is his size/strength and his adjusting to the North American ice. Both of which will come in time. Silfverberg had a slow start, which was expected as he adjusted to North American ice. Zibanejad was just starting to turn it on before he got "hurt." Unreasonable expectations for a 19 year old coming over from Sweden would be for him to dominate and shoot the lights out night after night. I've said this time and time again we should be reminded that Zibanejad was drafted as a RAW prospect and RAW prospects take time to develop. Expecting him to dominate right away as a 19 year old is completely ridiculous. He has the tools. He's played great. Relax and let the kid develop into his full potential. He needs to add size to his frame which takes time.. once he does that, then we can sit and judge and label what we must.

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12-27-2012, 10:25 AM
  #254
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You guys are so negative. I'll listen to coach who said he was progressing nicely and thinks he'd move in spurts like silf's been doing had he not gotten sick at about the same skill level.
Who cares about what NHL executives and coaching staff say? I'd rather listen to random hockey fans on message boards

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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Playing short of exceptional expectations by a fan base does not automatically mean you were playing poor. He was playing at a level lower than many hoped. Playing below the level he probably should be playing at. Could explain this.
Being a 6th overall after a ****** season (Sens rarely have bad seasons) is what built unrealistic expectations and bias among the fanbase

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Originally Posted by General Granny View Post
I wonder how a 19 year old Silf could have done at the AHL level.

The kid was 4th in scoring before he got injured, in those games I watched he was the most dangerous player offensively with a team that barely generated any type of offence.

You guys have high expectations for a teenager playing in his first Pro NA season, did you expect him to lead in scoring or something on a team.

I still believe in Harvey Dent.....error I mean Mina Zibenejad.
Exactly. People quickly forget about the age factor and also the fact that Mika has been playing with men as a teen/kid for 2 seasons now. Of course he didn't put PPG numbers. Rare are the players mentality and physically mature enough to put up great numbers in pro leagues at this age.

Need to put more emphasis on the word TEENAGER. Sens drafted him for his potential, not for his actual abilities to perform.


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12-27-2012, 10:32 AM
  #255
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I would love if someone could elaborate on the term "raw". I think the definition might vary.

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12-27-2012, 11:19 AM
  #256
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I would love if someone could elaborate on the term "raw". I think the definition might vary.
When skills are evident but underdeveloped in their application and refinement.

^ That right there is a definition that says nothing.

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12-27-2012, 12:22 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by The OttoMan Lion View Post
When skills are evident but underdeveloped in their application and refinement.

^ That right there is a definition that says nothing.
Yeah, that's what I gather. Things that could happen if everything goes well. Just like every big Canadian winger can be Milan Lucic.

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12-27-2012, 12:44 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by QuietOnTheFront View Post
See this is where I feel a lot of people are irrational and unreasonable. All you have said this entire thread is he simply just needs to be better, without even adding input as to what areas he could be..

From the 5 or 6 games I got to catch of Zibanejad early this year I thought he was one of the stand outs easily on a terrible team (early on). He performed well defensively anticipating the play and picking off passes on numerous occasions. He drives to the net like a power forward and does it often. He needs to add muscle to his frame to be more effective at it, but he does it which is great. He performed better offensively than his stats give him credit for, often being a threat when he stepped onto the ice. He hit a few posts which would have padded his stats a little bit more had they bounced the right way. He has excellent hands and pulled off some stellar dangles. From what I saw, everything is there.

In my opinion the only thing holding him back is his size/strength and his adjusting to the North American ice. Both of which will come in time. Silfverberg had a slow start, which was expected as he adjusted to North American ice. Zibanejad was just starting to turn it on before he got "hurt." Unreasonable expectations for a 19 year old coming over from Sweden would be for him to dominate and shoot the lights out night after night. I've said this time and time again we should be reminded that Zibanejad was drafted as a RAW prospect and RAW prospects take time to develop. Expecting him to dominate right away as a 19 year old is completely ridiculous. He has the tools. He's played great. Relax and let the kid develop into his full potential. He needs to add size to his frame which takes time.. once he does that, then we can sit and judge and label what we must.
I've mentioned on many other threads that his biggest weakness is his offensive hockey sense. Right now he simply doens't get it. Doesn't see the play developing, doesn't buy more time to find the streaking winger type thing.

And that worries me because typically that's not something that can be really developed. You either have it or you don't.

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12-27-2012, 01:19 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I've mentioned on many other threads that his biggest weakness is his offensive hockey sense. Right now he simply doens't get it. Doesn't see the play developing, doesn't buy more time to find the streaking winger type thing.

And that worries me because typically that's not something that can be really developed. You either have it or you don't.
Not true. SOME people don't have it and don't have the capacity to get it. True. BUT, most hockey players develop it over time with experience. It can also be coached to a degree*. Sure there are all kinds of examples of people that just don't get it, but most players end up with a much better hockey sense later in their careers than at the beginning.

I still think he's struggling to adjust to the NA smaller ice, just like Silferberg was. Give him the year down in Bingo and see where he ends up.

*simple example I experienced coaching my bantams. All our players would just rip down the ice with the puck and try and beat the dman wide. I explained that you have better success reading the dman and make a decision on whether to go wide or cut to the middle. If the dman lets the gap get too wide between him and the puck carrier, you can take him inside. If he's too close, you can beat him wide. It helped them tremendously. Then they took that knowledge and (a few of them) used it to set up the dman how they wanted by varying speeds and changing angles. I'm sure there are countless more complex examples like that that players learn throughout their career if they keep their minds open.

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12-27-2012, 02:30 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
Yeah, that's what I gather. Things that could happen if everything goes well. Just like every big Canadian winger can be Milan Lucic.
If they have his frame then sure. But that doesn't come around much.

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12-27-2012, 06:37 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
Not true. SOME people don't have it and don't have the capacity to get it. True. BUT, most hockey players develop it over time with experience. It can also be coached to a degree*. Sure there are all kinds of examples of people that just don't get it, but most players end up with a much better hockey sense later in their careers than at the beginning.

I still think he's struggling to adjust to the NA smaller ice, just like Silferberg was. Give him the year down in Bingo and see where he ends up.

*simple example I experienced coaching my bantams. All our players would just rip down the ice with the puck and try and beat the dman wide. I explained that you have better success reading the dman and make a decision on whether to go wide or cut to the middle. If the dman lets the gap get too wide between him and the puck carrier, you can take him inside. If he's too close, you can beat him wide. It helped them tremendously. Then they took that knowledge and (a few of them) used it to set up the dman how they wanted by varying speeds and changing angles. I'm sure there are countless more complex examples like that that players learn throughout their career if they keep their minds open.
I appreciate the response, but we are talking about a prospect that is supposedly near NHL ready. Kids in Bantam are being taught the fundamentals but Z should already know all of that.

I suppose that yes he could improve his hockey sense, but I don't really recall any prospects/NHL players vastly improving their hockey sense once in the NHL.

Just look at Foligno and Fisher. MSP is another prospect that is having a very difficult time adjusting to the NHL simply because he can no longer just skate around everyone. He has very limited hockey sense and his production is not on par where it should be. Not saying Z is the next MSP but just giving an example.

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12-27-2012, 06:55 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I appreciate the response, but we are talking about a prospect that is supposedly near NHL ready. Kids in Bantam are being taught the fundamentals but Z should already know all of that.

I suppose that yes he could improve his hockey sense, but I don't really recall any prospects/NHL players vastly improving their hockey sense once in the NHL.

Just look at Foligno and Fisher. MSP is another prospect that is having a very difficult time adjusting to the NHL simply because he can no longer just skate around everyone. He has very limited hockey sense and his production is not on par where it should be. Not saying Z is the next MSP but just giving an example.
I think there are many examples of players getting a better understanding of what needs to be done and what decisions to make on the ice. They're usually not drastic changes in the curve, though, and more often on the defensive/cautios side of things rather than related to offensive creativity and how to optimize the creating of chances.

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12-27-2012, 08:11 PM
  #263
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I am raw because I entered her raw. Then watched Zibanejad and could tell his skills are still raw while eating raw meat.

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12-28-2012, 03:06 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I've mentioned on many other threads that his biggest weakness is his offensive hockey sense. Right now he simply doens't get it. Doesn't see the play developing, doesn't buy more time to find the streaking winger type thing.

And that worries me because typically that's not something that can be really developed. You either have it or you don't.
He's a power forward not a playmaking pivot. He drives to the net making power moves and creates offense using his size and strength. That is his value that is his strength. He needs to fill out to attain this which takes time.

Not to mention what you mentioned above is based on a very miniscule sample size. He has barely played 20 games in north america yet you know this for fact. 20 games of which his team was offensively anemic. 20 games of which he was transitioning from European hockey to North American hockey as a 19 year old. 20 games during a time where there was poor transitional play from the back end (***** in terms of breakouts) and no evidence of any system. You can't single out one player when the entire team was playing some of the worst pro hockey I have ever seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steffeG View Post
I would love if someone could elaborate on the term "raw". I think the definition might vary.
The "raw" I was going for was not ready for the NHL in a year or two. The "raw" I was going for was the type of player that needs to develop his game 4 or 5 years to reach his full value and potential. I hate to use Canuck references (unfortunately majority of hockey available growing up was the nucks..) but I see his career path being similar to Todd Bertuzzi. Todd Bertuzzi took years to even show a flash of his "Westcoast Express" years. Power forwards usually take longer to develop as they tend to get to where they are going using strength and size rather than finesse and skill. However like Bertuzzi, Zibanejad has showcased that he does in fact have skill and can pull off a pretty dangle every now and then.

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12-28-2012, 03:15 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
I appreciate the response, but we are talking about a prospect that is supposedly near NHL ready. Kids in Bantam are being taught the fundamentals but Z should already know all of that.

I suppose that yes he could improve his hockey sense, but I don't really recall any prospects/NHL players vastly improving their hockey sense once in the NHL.

Just look at Foligno and Fisher. MSP is another prospect that is having a very difficult time adjusting to the NHL simply because he can no longer just skate around everyone. He has very limited hockey sense and his production is not on par where it should be. Not saying Z is the next MSP but just giving an example.
Didn't see this until I posted the last one..

He is NHL ready in the fact that he could step in and easily play a 3rd or 4th line checking roll EASILY. But that is not what the Sens want for him as he needs to develop his offensive game. This is why he was sent back last year, this is why he will probably stay in the minors for the majority of this year if the lockout is somehow lifted. Anyone who thinks he's capable right now of putting up offensive numbers in the NHL should not be taken seriously. What you are questioning is his hockey sense based on what very well may be an uncomfortable foreign experience for MZ. Until he's had time to adjust and develop without any injuries then we can truly assess if this is a problem for MZ.

He very may well be the next MPS.. He may not be. Personally I think he plays with more edge than MPS and is more defensively responsible therefore he still has value to an NHL roster regardless if his offensive touch ever surpasses the 30 - 40 point range. Obviously this would be a disappointment.

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12-28-2012, 03:40 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
I am raw because I entered her raw. Then watched Zibanejad and could tell his skills are still raw while eating raw meat.
Are... are we still talking about hockey here?

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12-28-2012, 08:55 AM
  #267
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Are... are we still talking about hockey here?
I think we're on to mothers now. I hear Mika's mother was a big influence on him.

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12-28-2012, 09:49 AM
  #268
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That's my thinking process as well.

If he fails to be a scorer, I imagine he'll have left a lot of people, that aren't Sens fans, wrong. Even at this point, despite his first 20 professional games in North America at 19.

I think a true star prospect would have made a smooth transition, so if I don't see a very marked improvement by the end of the season, and the 2nd half in particular is big itself, I'll be quite certain we don't have a star player on our hands.

My gut tells me he should be shooting for something similar to Milan Michalek. He's big and he's explosive and mostly because of those two things, he can play defense effectively against top players because he can skate with them. And he scores because he finds a way to get in alone with goaltenders quite a bit. Doesn't hold on to the puck because he's got little hockey sense but doesn't have to. A #3 or #4 forward on most teams.

I think he's got more natural tools than Michalek so if his progress rate improves I could see him being a guy that's a little better than Michalek. Still think it's reasonable to think he becomes a pretty similar caliber of player.
Since when has all this talk about Zibby not having good hockey IQ? He's projected to be a top 2nd line, 2 way forward like fisher. Aren't 2 way centers the guys most admired for their hockey sense. Can play away from the puck, with the puck and be versatile enough to move between all 3 lines. Zibby might not be able to finish into an open net, but he's good down low, on faceoffs and can play all 3 forward positions, I think his hockey IQ is his best attribute right now.

Or is it because he doesn't have any natural chemistry with most of his NA teammates? I wonder if he will be a guy who has to play with a specific winger to be effective, kinda like how Havlat didn't have any natural chemistry with most of he Sens top 6 forwards.

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12-28-2012, 09:59 AM
  #269
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I think we're on to mothers now. I hear Mika's mother was a big influence on him.
I hear he exited his mother raw.

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12-28-2012, 10:04 AM
  #270
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Since when has all this talk about Zibby not having good hockey IQ? He's projected to be a top 2nd line, 2 way forward like fisher. Aren't 2 way centers the guys most admired for their hockey sense. Can play away from the puck, with the puck and be versatile enough to move between all 3 lines. Zibby might not be able to finish into an open net, but he's good down low, on faceoffs and can play all 3 forward positions, I think his hockey IQ is his best attribute right now.

Or is it because he doesn't have any natural chemistry with most of his NA teammates? I wonder if he will be a guy who has to play with a specific winger to be effective, kinda like how Havlat didn't have any natural chemistry with most of he Sens top 6 forwards.
People need a reason to knock him for his lack of production so far. They can't really bash his physical skill because he skates well, shoots well and has great size & hands. So, the default is "no hockey IQ".

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12-28-2012, 10:06 AM
  #271
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Mika is pink in the middle.

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12-28-2012, 10:15 AM
  #272
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http://www.the6thsens.com/2012-artic...sh-hearts.html

towards the bottom of the article it references a twitter account "SensProspects" stating Mika has concussion symptoms. Dont know how accurate this is though

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12-28-2012, 10:16 AM
  #273
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in some ways he is far ahead of other prospects the same age. He already plays a solid 2 way game and is dependable defensively (in the NHL).

I would much rather see a prospect develop his defensive game the way zibanejad has first and then work on the offense. It is a much smoother transition this way. Some prospects are too focused on the offensive side and take years to learn the defensive a little bit at a time.

This goes for forwards and especially defensemen. A guy like rundblad for example, as offensive minded as he is, should be taught to forget about producing points completely at first and focus on defense. Once he has that down(as well as he's going to get it or at least at an acceptable level), then work on the offense. It will come much easier and you get a much better overall player in the end who is more likely to have a long career.

The more comfortable Zibanejad gets over the next couple years the more we should see him drive to the net. And then... look out.


Last edited by Icelevel: 12-28-2012 at 10:25 AM.
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12-28-2012, 11:06 AM
  #274
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This stupid lockout. I want him to play with Alfredsson some.... in the NHL. Maybe not on his line on a regular basis... but sometimes and in practice. If there ever was a prospect I would want a year of Alfredsson with he is it. Hopefully we get at least a half season of it!!!

Edit: Why? Because Alfredsson has all the skills but he knows how to slow the game down and then speed it up. Zibanejad's skills are great. If he could learn to control the pace a bit when he has the puck he could be a star player sooner then later.

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12-28-2012, 12:51 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by OgieO View Post
People are explaining his lack of production so far. They can't really bash his physical skill because he skates well, shoots well and has great size & hands. They can point to questionable "hockey IQ", because if you watch him play with anything resembling an intelligent, critical lens, you'll see he does not yet know how to make full use of his physical talent.
Great post

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