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Trade Rumor and Proposal Thread Part III

View Poll Results: Would you accept the Edmonton Oilers acquiring Luongo from the Vancouver Canucks?
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Old
12-27-2012, 04:14 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Strome is a C ... Might not be better then Gagner offensively for the next couple yrs but will be bigger once he fills into his 6'1" frame. He is also a RHS who also scored 106pts his draft year (ala RNH and Hall).
What he scored in his draft year is irrelevant, he is nowhere near the caliber of RNH or Hall. Yes he is a RHS but so is Gagner, neither seems overly strong so I really don't see the need to trade the devil we know for the devil we don't.

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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Gagner is a RHS who scored 118p in his draft year. And it isn't like Strome uses that extra size to his advantage or anything. I prefer Gagner.
Pretty much this even if Strome ends up the better player it probably won't be by a lot and it likely won't be in the next couple of years.

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Originally Posted by raab View Post
Yea, the last thing this team needs to do is get younger. If we trade Gagner the guy coming back needs to be at least 25+ years old IMO, or a proven young player like Couturier.
I'm fine with getting younger if we are getting a guy that in a year or two will be much better than Gagner currently is, Strome IMO is not that player.

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12-27-2012, 04:21 PM
  #602
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If we're going for a center from the Islanders I'd much rather get Nelson than Strome.

In Bridgeport this season Nelson's stat line:
25gp. 11-11-22 -1 68 shots on goal
He's also 6'3" and 205lbs. and just turned 21.

Zac Dalpe is another guy that I'd take a flier on although not for Gagner at least not straight up anyway. He's really cooled off after a hot start to the season though with only 3 points in his last 11 games.

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12-27-2012, 04:41 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
What he scored in his draft year is irrelevant, he is nowhere near the caliber of RNH or Hall. Yes he is a RHS but so is Gagner, neither seems overly strong so I really don't see the need to trade the devil we know for the devil we don't.



Pretty much this even if Strome ends up the better player it probably won't be by a lot and it likely won't be in the next couple of years.



I'm fine with getting younger if we are getting a guy that in a year or two will be much better than Gagner currently is, Strome IMO is not that player.
I agree Strome might never be as good as Gagner is now, but I disagree on getting younger and waiting 2 years for the player to develop. We have no business trading Gagner unless its for a player already better then Gagner. We need to make the playoffs so waiting 2 years for someone to get better then Gagner is out of the question IMO. If were trading him it has to be a clear upgrade.

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12-27-2012, 04:47 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by raab View Post
I agree Strome might never be as good as Gagner is now, but I disagree on getting younger and waiting 2 years for the player to develop. We have no business trading Gagner unless its for a player already better then Gagner. We need to make the playoffs so waiting 2 years for someone to get better then Gagner is out of the question IMO. If were trading him it has to be a clear upgrade.
I don't see us going very far with Gagner as our 2C nor do I see our team going very far in the next year.

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12-27-2012, 04:54 PM
  #605
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I don't see us going very far with Gagner as our 2C nor do I see our team going very far in the next year.
I think you might be surprised, especially if we don't have hockey until 2014. There will be no excuse for us not making the playoffs.

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12-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #606
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I think you might be surprised, especially if we don't have hockey until 2014. There will be no excuse for us not making the playoffs.
Well I must admit that Nail hasn't exactly blown my socks off when I've seen him play against international competition so I am less confident in his ability to step in and dominate offensively at the NHL level than I am Schultz. Hemsky and Whitney are ?'s in terms of if they can return to pre injury form and stay healthy, etc.

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12-27-2012, 06:03 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Well I must admit that Nail hasn't exactly blown my socks off when I've seen him play against international competition so I am less confident in his ability to step in and dominate offensively at the NHL level than I am Schultz. Hemsky and Whitney are ?'s in terms of if they can return to pre injury form and stay healthy, etc.
Its kind of a weird transition period for Yakupov. He isn't actually given a whole lot of icetime in both the KHL and WJC thus far. I have no doubt that he can produce given the icetime but its kind of strange to see him with less. Sure, he is putting up decent numbers but I would like to see him dominate a bit more with less icetime. Having said that, having him on our second line is just sick.

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12-28-2012, 06:22 AM
  #608
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Yakupov is scoring at nearly a point a game pace as a rookie in the KHL... and he's doing that getting just over 14 minutes per game of ice time.

He's also 14th among forwards in the KHL in shots per game... a good indicator of his offensive potential... and again he's doing that playing much lower minutes than most of the other top offensive players in the KHL.

My understanding is that he's being coached to be more defensively aware.. which is why he isn't handed huge minutes on a plate right out of the gate. That's actually a good thing imo as he'll be expected to do the same at the NHL level as well.

I'm not worried about his offensive abilities... he has obvious talent and in these types of tournaments he's a key player that other teams focus on... which is likely why his offensive numbers aren't always huge. Not an excuse for his performances... just an observation. He could very well have a superb tournament here. It's likely just a matter of time before he breaks out.

I agree as well... the level of offensive depth he will add to the Oilers is invaluable. He just has to work on his defensive game so we don't have similar conversations to Omark... we certainly don't need that again.

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12-28-2012, 08:58 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Inspired by the Spengler cup and WJHC proposal:

Gagner for Strome

JT and Gagner become linemats and EDM rolls with RNH + Strome as the 1\2 punch down the middle.

NYI has Bailey and Nielsen behind Tavares down the middle so Strome might be available. Gagner gets moved to the wing replacing Parenteau.

EDM gets a RHS top prospect C shoring up our top 6 for years to come.

Hall-Strome-Yakupov = not a bad #2 line
Equally unrealistic counter proposal: Eberle for Frans Neilsen.

Do we really need to have another, Neilsen vs. Gagner 2nd line center debate?

Snow gave nhl.com a short interview about 10 days ago. He says he's sticking with his homegrown rebuild and to expect MORE kids on the roster.

Strome has been Tavares off season workout partner since before he was drafted.
There is a 2011 draft weekend comment from Tavares, saying the isles asked him about Strome before drafting him. So, no worries that lil Johnny doesn't have enough BFFs and needs lil Sam on LI

Btw, the team switched Bailey from center to lw, where he has less responsibility and has looked better.

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12-28-2012, 09:02 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
If we're going for a center from the Islanders I'd much rather get Nelson than Strome.

In Bridgeport this season Nelson's stat line:
25gp. 11-11-22 -1 68 shots on goal
He's also 6'3" and 205lbs. and just turned 21.

Zac Dalpe is another guy that I'd take a flier on although not for Gagner at least not straight up anyway. He's really cooled off after a hot start to the season though with only 3 points in his last 11 games.
Like the Oilers, The isles want to add size, scoring and sandpaper down the middle. I doubt Nelson is moved. He has been Nino's linemate for most of this season and although Nino is the leading scorer, Nelson has drawn praise for being defensively responsible. He may make it to the NHL before Strome or before Nino's 2nd chance at the NHL.


http://islanders.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=645169
Nelson Emerging As All-Around Force
Sound Tigers rookie relied upon in all situations
Wednesday, 11.07.2012 / 4:08 PM / News
By Jesse D. Eisenberg

The 20-year-old has become Pellerin’s top choice in nearly every situation. He’s on the Sound Tigers top power-play and penalty-kill units, as well as their most relied-upon and productive five-on-five line. Flanked by wingers Colin McDonald and Niederreiter, Nelson was on the ice for every other shift in the waning minutes of Wednesday’s game, as his club clung to a one-goal lead before Niederreiter added an insurance marker.

“He’s playing a lot of quality minutes in all different situations so I’m giving him as much as he can handle,” Pellerin said. “So far he’s handled everything I’ve thrown out.”

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12-28-2012, 09:54 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Equally unrealistic counter proposal: Eberle for Frans Neilsen.

Do we really need to have another, Neilsen vs. Gagner 2nd line center debate?

Snow gave nhl.com a short interview about 10 days ago. He says he's sticking with his homegrown rebuild and to expect MORE kids on the roster.

Strome has been Tavares off season workout partner since before he was drafted.
There is a 2011 draft weekend comment from Tavares, saying the isles asked him about Strome before drafting him. So, no worries that lil Johnny doesn't have enough BFFs and needs lil Sam on LI

Btw, the team switched Bailey from center to lw, where he has less responsibility and has looked better.
nice that you like to laugh at your own counter proposals..
Eberle? really? Strome is nothing close to what Ebs has done. I made a proposal for Strome not Tavares so your counter isnt 'as unrealistic'.

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12-28-2012, 10:45 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
nice that you like to laugh at your own counter proposals..
Eberle? really? Strome is nothing close to what Ebs has done. I made a proposal for Strome not Tavares so your counter isnt 'as unrealistic'.
I laughed at my counterproposal because Frans Nielsen for Eberle is as unrealistic as Strome for Gagner.


I'm not saying Gagner has no value. I'm saying he holds no value or appeal to the NYI and the isles would not trade Strome for him.

The isles have a similar player to the smallish Gagner, in the smallish Frans Nielsen, only Frans is better defensively and on a better contract. Both will score 45 or so pts.

So, Gagner's not bumping Tavares from the 1st line center spot. He doesn't add size or grit to the wing. He's not big or physical enough for the 3rd line.

And the isles top 2 center prospects, Strome and Brock Nelson, are having terrific seasons, expected to challenge for an nhl roster spot as soon as the lockout ends.

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12-28-2012, 11:50 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I laughed at my counterproposal because Frans Nielsen for Eberle is as unrealistic as Strome for Gagner.


I'm not saying Gagner has no value. I'm saying he holds no value or appeal to the NYI and the isles would not trade Strome for him.

The isles have a similar player to the smallish Gagner, in the smallish Frans Nielsen, only Frans is better defensively and on a better contract. Both will score 45 or so pts.

So, Gagner's not bumping Tavares from the 1st line center spot. He doesn't add size or grit to the wing. He's not big or physical enough for the 3rd line.

And the isles top 2 center prospects, Strome and Brock Nelson, are having terrific seasons, expected to challenge for an nhl roster spot as soon as the lockout ends.
no your counter is a lot more unrealistic since Eberle is a tier above guys like Gagner, Nielsen and Strome. Strome is what Gagner was 4 yrs ago.

o well.. if Bailey is moving to wing then NYI doesnt have the need to move one of its young Cs for a more proven player.

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12-28-2012, 01:04 PM
  #614
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I do not agree with people that state Gagner has no trade value.

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12-28-2012, 01:16 PM
  #615
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no your counter is a lot more unrealistic since Eberle is a tier above guys like Gagner, Nielsen and Strome. Strome is what Gagner was 4 yrs ago.

o well.. if Bailey is moving to wing then NYI doesnt have the need to move one of its young Cs for a more proven player.
Bailey moving to LW, has no effect on any Isles interest in Gagner. They would not be in the mix for him because

Gagner is NOT an upgrade on Frans Nielsen on the 2nd line, he isn't suited to the 3rd line and has not shown anything to get excited about on the wing.

I'm not saying Strome/Nielsen are untouchable. I'm saying they won't be moved unless filling a key need for the Isles.

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12-28-2012, 01:25 PM
  #616
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I do not agree with people that state Gagner has no trade value.
On hf....no value. But you have to think that in reality if tambo calls up a gm and offers him gagner then that gm's ears perk up. He is 23 still with as large an upside as many prospects people would trade him for.

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12-28-2012, 03:02 PM
  #617
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I do not agree with people that state Gagner has no trade value.
And you are absolutely right. IMO the Ducks would be very interested if the Oilers offered him. There would definitely be talks. And same thing for any other team. Gagner probably is no franchise center...but I doubt there are a lot of teams in the NHL who wouldn't love him on the 2nd line.

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12-28-2012, 08:34 PM
  #618
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Honestly... if a decent offer had come along for Gagner the Oilers would have moved him by now. "Decent" being a piece they could use to fill a bigger hole than the one created by Gagner's departure.

They aren't giving him away for nothing but he certainly doesn't command a huge return either... hence why he remains on the team even after he's been on the block at times during these last few years.

It's naive to assume he's either worthless or very valuable... he is what he is... a smallish centre who's not especially quick... is mediocre defensively and is average at best in the faceoff dot... who's not physically imposing or outstanding at any aspect of the game... save in one area... no one ever questions his heart or work ethic. He does have decent hands and is a defacto #2 centre on a team with no better option.

It's like a catch-22 with Gagner... they aren't likely going to get a "better centre" by trading away a lesser centre... and if they get a dman or a biggish winger for him... well there's that gaping offensive hole in the middle of the lineup again.

Horcoff/Belanger/Lander/Arcobello/VandeVelde/Pitlick/Martindale... not exactly brimming with offensive talent as far as centres go within the organization.

With Gagner gone they'd need some offense up the middle to replace him so they have to hope A)Horcoff gets his offensive mojo back from half a decade ago (not likely) or B) Belanger rediscovers his 40 pts per year consistency (possible but no guarantee) C)one of the prospects suddenly burst forward in their development unexpectedly (again not likely). Honestly Arcobello looks like the most promising offensive centre prospect in the system right now and he's basically just an even smaller version of Gagner.

Essentially the Oilers need to trade away a winger(s) to help fill the hole at centre before they move Gagner. The wings are the only area where they have anything near to a surplus of talent... and even there they are only an injury or two away from being thin as well.

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12-28-2012, 10:11 PM
  #619
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And you are absolutely right. IMO the Ducks would be very interested if the Oilers offered him. There would definitely be talks. And same thing for any other team. Gagner probably is no franchise center...but I doubt there are a lot of teams in the NHL who wouldn't love him on the 2nd line.
I was pretty sure we were going to see him moved to you guys at the draft. He'd be a perfect fit behind Getzlaf imo

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12-28-2012, 11:19 PM
  #620
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I was pretty sure we were going to see him moved to you guys at the draft. He'd be a perfect fit behind Getzlaf imo
What do you think that trade would have looked like? Not being a dick, just curious

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12-28-2012, 11:28 PM
  #621
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What do you think that trade would have looked like? Not being a dick, just curious
Something around him for 6th with us likely adding something like Musil/Gernat/Rieder and their 2nd

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01-01-2013, 09:58 PM
  #622
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Would anyone consider something along the lines of Schiefele and Bogosian for Yakupov and Gagner? I think Scheifele is the ideal second line centre and with Yakupovs recent comments, I doubt he is making any friends with our young guns who have all represented Canada at the juniors. Not that I think it's a huge deal but I just think this would be a better team going forward. Thoughts? is it even remotely fair?
Scheifele will clearly not be traded by the Jets, as he is a big part of their future plans. But they could potentially use Gagner, as they are short a top-6 forward. Conversely, they have an abundance of defencemen in the system, including 2 on the farm (Postma and Redmond)who could move up if there were room. Not to mention a young kid by the name of Trouba, who you might have noticed in the WJC...
You should assume the Jets will NOT trade Enstrom, Bogo, or Trouba, but any other defenceman is potentially tradable, IMO.

Any thoughts on a package involving Gagner to the Jets, in exchange for a package involving a Jets defenceman?

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01-01-2013, 11:13 PM
  #623
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What do you think that trade would have looked like? Not being a dick, just curious
Anaheim gave us a 2nd for Cogliano, ha ha. I'm sure they'd give a first rounder (not top 10) for Gagner.

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01-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #624
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Anaheim gave us a 2nd for Cogliano, ha ha. I'm sure they'd give a first rounder (not top 10) for Gagner.
I can't really see us moving Gagner for picks/prospects, unless it's a high end prospect or very good pick. We are at the stage that if we are moving players it's for upgrades at other positions.

Unless it's a Horcoff or Bulin

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01-03-2013, 07:10 AM
  #625
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I do not agree with people that state Gagner has no trade value.
It's the HF mentality that say Gagner has no value, but anyone seen him play would know different. If a team gave Gagner some big wingers, they would see Sam's value.You see the same 5-6 trolls that pop up to slam him anytime his name is mentioned in a trade.

Gagner's biggest fault is his constancy, he has to put out 100% each game and I haven't seen that yet. Being around Horcoff could be the problem.

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