HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Am I the only one who would take a healthy Palffy over a healthy Mogilny?

View Poll Results: Who was better
Pallfy 30 33.33%
Almo 60 66.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-27-2012, 01:16 AM
  #1
Puckgenius*
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: At the rink
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,558
vCash: 500
Am I the only one who would take a healthy Palffy over a healthy Mogilny?

I really liked Palffys game, he was a horse, i think he had a bit better skillset. Was able to carry a weak offense on his back.

Puckgenius* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:57 AM
  #2
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
I really liked Palffys game, he was a horse, i think he had a bit better skillset. Was able to carry a weak offense on his back.
When Mogilny wanted to play, he was the superior player. Huge Palffy fan here, but he never played any important games in his career, not sure how much of that was on him or not.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 02:43 AM
  #3
davebenj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,343
vCash: 500
I would take Mogilny for sure but then I'm not as huge of a Palffy fan as some are believe it or not so perhaps I wouldn't be the best person to ask. He was a fantastic player for sure but some think he is on another level entirely.

davebenj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 02:50 AM
  #4
Master_Of_Districts
Registered User
 
Master_Of_Districts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Black Ruthenia
Country: Belarus
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
When Mogilny wanted to play, he was the superior player. Huge Palffy fan here, but he never played any important games in his career, not sure how much of that was on him or not.
Palffy played in playoff games, which are important games by any sensible definition.

Master_Of_Districts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 05:00 AM
  #5
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
 
MarkusNaslund19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country:
Posts: 1,256
vCash: 500
I was probably the biggest Palffy fan outside of Long Island, but if you stack them up against each other playing their best it's not close. Mogilny all the way.

MarkusNaslund19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 09:00 AM
  #6
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
When Mogilny wanted to play, he was the superior player. Huge Palffy fan here, but he never played any important games in his career, not sure how much of that was on him or not.
That's exactly why I take Palffy. Mogilny was only a star a small portion of the time.

__________________
Every post comes with the Nalyd Psycho Seal of Approval.
Nalyd Psycho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 10:43 AM
  #7
Evincar
Your Final Judgement
 
Evincar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,213
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
When Mogilny wanted to play, he was the superior player. Huge Palffy fan here, but he never played any important games in his career, not sure how much of that was on him or not.
Superior player? Not even close. Mogilny was a terrible playoff performer so it doesnt really matter if he played in more important games.

When healthy Palffy is guaranteed top 15 scorer, so I would take him.

Evincar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 11:39 AM
  #8
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,654
vCash: 500
Mogilny’s top-20 PPG finishes: 5, 8, 9, 11, 13, 14, 14, 18
Palffy’s top-20 PPG finishes: 2, 4, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 20

Beyond their two best seasons, they’re practically identical in terms of per-game production when healthy.

Palffy takes this by having the demonstrably better peak.

seventieslord is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 11:56 AM
  #9
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Of_Districts View Post
Palffy played in playoff games, which are important games by any sensible definition.
Wait, what alternate universe am I in? Palffy played in 24 playoff games his entire career...

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 12:10 PM
  #10
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusNaslund19 View Post
I was probably the biggest Palffy fan outside of Long Island, but if you stack them up against each other playing their best it's not close. Mogilny all the way.
That was the problem. Palffy consistently showed up to play, Mogilny did not. Going into a season, Palffy could be counted on for 30+ goals and 80+ points (if healthy), Mogilny could have either a clearly better or a clearly worse year depending on whether he felt like putting in an effort.

Mayor Bee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 12:17 PM
  #11
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Palffy was the better player when healthy, Mogilny had the better career.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 12:18 PM
  #12
tombombadil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Kelowna, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 500
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...order_by=goals

If you take the time to explain, properly, to your kids one day, about what the period known as the Dead Puck Era was all about, I'm going to suggest that they will be very surprised to learn that a 5'10 'soft' player that they never heard of was #4 in points per game in that period.

More difficult to identify would be one of his team mates anywhere on the first page of this list.

tombombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:02 PM
  #13
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
That was the problem. Palffy consistently showed up to play, Mogilny did not. Going into a season, Palffy could be counted on for 30+ goals and 80+ points (if healthy), Mogilny could have either a clearly better or a clearly worse year depending on whether he felt like putting in an effort.
Palffy had three great offensive years on a terrible NYI team that never saw the playoffs. He was the ONLY offensive player on that bad team and he scored a lot of points. I'm not doubting his skillset, his hands and vision were outstanding.

But I'm curious why NO TEAM seemed to want him for a playoff run? Even later in his career, was there nobody who wanted this player to put them over the top? He wasn't exactly known for anything except a regular season point producer.

Mogilny was definitely inconsistent but when he was on his game he was unstoppable. His peak (76G, 55G) was far superior to Palffy's, not just his longer career.

I'm an Isles fan and a Palffy fan but let's not revisit history and fall in love with the stats. Palffy was very inconsistent in his effort as well, he just managed to produce a lot of points along the way. Neither will be confused with Gary Roberts or Ryan Smyth or Ryan Callahan or Zach Parise in terms of effort out there.

I know Palffy had great stats. But there's no way he was better than Mogilny. My eyes are deceitful at times and memories can be altered with age, but not in this case.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:09 PM
  #14
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombombadil View Post
http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...order_by=goals

If you take the time to explain, properly, to your kids one day, about what the period known as the Dead Puck Era was all about, I'm going to suggest that they will be very surprised to learn that a 5'10 'soft' player that they never heard of was #4 in points per game in that period.

More difficult to identify would be one of his team mates anywhere on the first page of this list.
Yes, its pretty funny that his most skilled teammate in Islanders were Travis Green (Palffy reached 90pts). Then he had Robert Reichel. I think in 98 the lines were something like

Nemchinov - Reichel - Palffy
Chorske - Smolinski - Bertuzzi
Hough - Green - Czerkawski
Before the trades that sent Green to the ducks and Bert to Vancouver.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:13 PM
  #15
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Palffy had three great offensive years on a terrible NYI team that never saw the playoffs. He was the ONLY offensive player on that bad team and he scored a lot of points. I'm not doubting his skillset, his hands and vision were outstanding.

But I'm curious why NO TEAM seemed to want him for a playoff run? Even later in his career, was there nobody who wanted this player to put them over the top? He wasn't exactly known for anything except a regular season point producer.

Mogilny was definitely inconsistent but when he was on his game he was unstoppable. His peak (76G, 55G) was far superior to Palffy's, not just his longer career.

I'm an Isles fan and a Palffy fan but let's not revisit history and fall in love with the stats. Palffy was very inconsistent in his effort as well, he just managed to produce a lot of points along the way. Neither will be confused with Gary Roberts or Ryan Smyth or Ryan Callahan or Zach Parise in terms of effort out there.

I know Palffy had great stats. But there's no way he was better than Mogilny. My eyes are deceitful at times and memories can be altered with age, but not in this case.
Beacuse he was a young guy and Milbury officially went out before every deadline and said hes not trading Palffy. He was then traded for some pretty hyped up prospects like Jokinen, Green, Biron and a 1st (I think Isles selected Pyatt with the pick).

Remember how shocked everyone were when he announced his retirement?

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:34 PM
  #16
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Yes, its pretty funny that his most skilled teammate in Islanders were Travis Green (Palffy reached 90pts). Then he had Robert Reichel. I think in 98 the lines were something like

Nemchinov - Reichel - Palffy
Chorske - Smolinski - Bertuzzi
Hough - Green - Czerkawski
Before the trades that sent Green to the ducks and Bert to Vancouver.
Bertuzzi - Reichel - Palffy
Dawe - Smolinski - Czerkawski
Hough - Nemchinov - Chorske
Odjick - Lapointe - Sacco

then they got Linden at the deadline, for Bertuzzi & McCabe.
Isles also had a young Zdeno Chara on defense, but he was tall and awkward and couldn't move his feet well, tended to make defensive zone mistakes.....it was probably best he was moved.

Reichel was a 90pt guy in Calgary as well.

Palffy never had talent around him, no argument there, but being able to produce points without great talent around you doesn't necessarily mean you're a great player. Alexei Yashin had some nice success (personally) with Sean McEachern and Andreas Dackel.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Beacuse he was a young guy and Milbury officially went out before every deadline and said hes not trading Palffy. He was then traded for some pretty hyped up prospects like Jokinen, Green, Biron and a 1st (I think Isles selected Pyatt with the pick).
Milbury was pretty outspoken about being forced to trade Palffy because the owners wanted the team payroll rock bottom (sound familiar Wang?) - I believe (from faded memory) that the team payroll was supposed to be in the 12-14M range (oh how times have changed NHLPA!!!)

He didn't get fair value for Palffy, even Milbury has talked about how tough it is to trade from such a position of weakness.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 01:52 PM
  #17
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,194
vCash: 500
I voted Palffy on a technically sort of. Meaning I'd probably take healthy and motivated Mogilny first (the few times that happened), but the OP didn't specify motivated, so I picked Palffy, who was consistently an elite scorer when he was healthy.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 03:24 PM
  #18
skywarp75
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,020
vCash: 500
im pretty sure 100% of the fans of buffalo, Vancouver, Toronto and NJ who were lucky enough to watch him play full multiple seasons would agree that Almo was a vastly superior player. I duno what the haters think about him, but the guy was elite in pretty much every facet of the game, and his physical play is highly underrated, Almo threw some big hits, and not just once in a blue moon.

skywarp75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 04:00 PM
  #19
Theokritos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Palffy had three great offensive years on a terrible NYI team that never saw the playoffs. He was the ONLY offensive player on that bad team and he scored a lot of points. I'm not doubting his skillset, his hands and vision were outstanding.

But I'm curious why NO TEAM seemed to want him for a playoff run? Even later in his career, was there nobody who wanted this player to put them over the top? He wasn't exactly known for anything except a regular season point producer.
Well, how was he supposed to be known for anything else when he never played on a playoff team?

Theokritos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 04:03 PM
  #20
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 38,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by skywarp75 View Post
im pretty sure 100% of the fans of buffalo, Vancouver, Toronto and NJ who were lucky enough to watch him play full multiple seasons would agree that Almo was a vastly superior player. I duno what the haters think about him, but the guy was elite in pretty much every facet of the game, and his physical play is highly underrated, Almo threw some big hits, and not just once in a blue moon.
Last I checked, I'm a NJ fan who watched 90%+ of the games that Mogilny played with the team.

2000-01 in NJ was one of the few seasons in his career when he was healthy and motivated, and as great as it was, he still didn't finish top 10 in points for the season

And he was pretty clearly not elite in terms of defensive play; the only Devils I've seen take a regular shift on the team who were worse defensively were Ilya Kovalchuk and possibly Scott Gomez.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 04:35 PM
  #21
Master_Of_Districts
Registered User
 
Master_Of_Districts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Black Ruthenia
Country: Belarus
Posts: 1,746
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Wait, what alternate universe am I in? Palffy played in 24 playoff games his entire career...
Yeah, I know.

The poster to which I was responding claimed that Palffy played in zero important games.

Which is not so.

Master_Of_Districts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 04:40 PM
  #22
davebenj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,343
vCash: 500
I honestly think Palffy gets overrated on here sometimes (runs and hides)

davebenj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 05:39 PM
  #23
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,001
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbull View Post
Bertuzzi - Reichel - Palffy
Dawe - Smolinski - Czerkawski
Hough - Nemchinov - Chorske
Odjick - Lapointe - Sacco

then they got Linden at the deadline, for Bertuzzi & McCabe.
Isles also had a young Zdeno Chara on defense, but he was tall and awkward and couldn't move his feet well, tended to make defensive zone mistakes.....it was probably best he was moved.

Reichel was a 90pt guy in Calgary as well.

Palffy never had talent around him, no argument there, but being able to produce points without great talent around you doesn't necessarily mean you're a great player. Alexei Yashin had some nice success (personally) with Sean McEachern and Andreas Dackel.
Im prettysure Chorske and Smolinski played with Bertuzzi (although they got split up at times), the CBS-line. Bertuzzi didnt play much as a 1st liner and there were doubts if he was ever going to be a star.


I forgot about Dawe, yes he was the second liner for sure. Point is Palffy played with some remarkably bad supporting cast. Was Dawe on the Linden - Czerkawski line after the trade?

Quote:
Milbury was pretty outspoken about being forced to trade Palffy because the owners wanted the team payroll rock bottom (sound familiar Wang?) - I believe (from faded memory) that the team payroll was supposed to be in the 12-14M range (oh how times have changed NHLPA!!!

He didn't get fair value for Palffy, even Milbury has talked about how tough it is to trade from such a position of weakness.
Yea, I remember the owners wanting him to but Im certain that he also stated that he told the owners he wouldn't. Until he finally got forced to do it and traded him to the Kings.

Hobnobs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 05:51 PM
  #24
tombombadil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: West Kelowna, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 500
I'm always out to lunch, but, on my own terms, I wouldn;t even have made this poll. Ziggy is clearly above Mogilny for me. Being motivated is part of the package - Mogilny had one insane year, in a year where a lot of guys had insane years, and he played with another under rated stud in Laffy.

Kariya vs. Palffy would be a more even comparo, to me, but, like I said, I don't line up with consensus too often.

tombombadil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-27-2012, 05:56 PM
  #25
x BEUKEBOOM x
Buuuuuuuuuuuk !
 
x BEUKEBOOM x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NY Rangerville
Country: United States
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
This is just opinion and doesn't mean all that much but should be thrown ou there as food fro thought.

As an NYR fan watching these two in their primes I was never really worried when Palfy had the puck but when Almo had the puck you took notice and were on the edge of your seat till the play was broken up.

Stats have their place in arguements but they dont tell the whole story.

x BEUKEBOOM x is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.