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Toronto - Phoenix

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Old
12-27-2012, 05:22 PM
  #1
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Toronto - Phoenix

We've been discussing this in the trade thread on the Leafs' boards and feel it would be beneficial for both teams.

To Toronto:
Rostislav Klesla

To Phoenix:
Clarke MacArthur

Would the Leafs have to add a pick, because MacArthur will be a free agent? Perhaps a conditional one, if he doesn't re-sign? It gives Toronto a solid and very balanced defensive core, and we add that defensive defenseman we need.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Klesla
Rielly/Liles - Komisarek/Holzer

A line of MacArthur - Vermette - Doan could work together as well, Mac can play in any of the top three lines and provide some decent offense while being gritty, and decent defensively.

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12-27-2012, 05:47 PM
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So you think that MacArthur is that much better than Boedker? Enough for the Coyotes to trade Klesla? And MacArthur is a UFA after the season(?) while Klesla would still be under contract.
The Coyotews might look into replacing Sullivan after this season, but they will not trade Klesla for MacArthur if this season starts...

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12-27-2012, 06:02 PM
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Klesla for (NYI) Josh Bailey has been the best offer on these boards for Rusty. Bailey's got a lot of NHL experience, is still young, has upside and will be RFA. That's a lot better than 48 games of Clarke Macarthur. I'd want a pretty good addition to even it out.

How about Klesla & Goncharov for Connolly & Colborne?

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12-27-2012, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
Klesla for (NYI) Josh Bailey has been the best offer on these boards for Rusty. Bailey's got a lot of NHL experience, is still young, has upside and will be RFA. That's a lot better than 48 games of Clarke Macarthur. I'd want a pretty good addition to even it out.

How about Klesla & Goncharov for Connolly & Colborne?
Change Goncharov to a 4th round pick in 2013 (Leafs don't have one) and I'd pull the trigger.

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12-27-2012, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
Klesla for (NYI) Josh Bailey has been the best offer on these boards for Rusty. Bailey's got a lot of NHL experience, is still young, has upside and will be RFA. That's a lot better than 48 games of Clarke Macarthur. I'd want a pretty good addition to even it out.

How about Klesla & Goncharov for Connolly & Colborne?
I wouldn't like the Coyotes trading Klesla for a rental. Connolly could probably be had for Bissonette and (?). I'm not sold on Colborne, maybe for Goncharov, but he be wouldn't be enough to entice the Coyotes.

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12-27-2012, 06:30 PM
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I like it from the Leafs perspective but only if the pick is lower end

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12-27-2012, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
Klesla for (NYI) Josh Bailey has been the best offer on these boards for Rusty. Bailey's got a lot of NHL experience, is still young, has upside and will be RFA. That's a lot better than 48 games of Clarke Macarthur. I'd want a pretty good addition to even it out.

How about Klesla & Goncharov for Connolly & Colborne?
Change Goncharov to a 4th round pick in 2013 (Leafs don't have one) and I'd pull the trigger.

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12-27-2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Change Goncharov to a 4th round pick in 2013 (Leafs don't have one) and I'd pull the trigger.
The Yotes don't have one either (It went to Philly as a result of the Bobrovsky trade. We gave it to the BJs as a result of the Vermette trade). It could be easily made for the 2014 draft. Or we could find an equal prospect that might fit the Leafs' farm system needs. I think Connolly straight across for a 4th round pick was brought up once before.

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12-27-2012, 07:00 PM
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One player that really interests me on Phoenix is Boedker.

Grabovski+Macarthur+Colborne for Boedker and Klesla?

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12-27-2012, 07:19 PM
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One player that really interests me on Phoenix is Boedker.

Grabovski+Macarthur+Colborne for Boedker and Klesla?
Yikes. No thanks to that.

Wouldn't trade Grabo alone for that package.

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Old
12-27-2012, 07:19 PM
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The Yotes don't have one either (It went to Philly as a result of the Bobrovsky trade. We gave it to the BJs as a result of the Vermette trade). It could be easily made for the 2014 draft. Or we could find an equal prospect that might fit the Leafs' farm system needs. I think Connolly straight across for a 4th round pick was brought up once before.
2014 4th would work. Burke could probably flip it for a 2013 pick.

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12-27-2012, 07:48 PM
  #12
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From the Maple Leafs side it's a trade I would very much consider doing.

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12-27-2012, 08:31 PM
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I wouldn't trade a locked up stalwart D like Klesla for a pending UFA in MacArthur.

Connolly and Colborne for Klesla is a horrible proposal. For Connolly I'd offer a 3rd or 4th round pick. Tops.

I wouldn't offer Klesla for Bailey, either. I don't see how Bailey helps our issue at center. I'd put in a waiver claim to give him a shot. Maybe even offer a pick for the opportunity to try him out in Tippett's system. Noway I'd move an extremely effective and valuable roster player like Klesla for him.

Boedker and Grabovski's names don't need to be in this thread.

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12-27-2012, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I wouldn't trade a locked up stalwart D like Klesla for a pending UFA in MacArthur.

Connolly and Colborne for Klesla is a horrible proposal. For Connolly I'd offer a 3rd or 4th round pick. Tops.

I wouldn't offer Klesla for Bailey, either. I don't see how Bailey helps our issue at center. I'd put in a waiver claim to give him a shot. Maybe even offer a pick for the opportunity to try him out in Tippett's system. Noway I'd move an extremely effective and valuable roster player like Klesla for him.

Boedker and Grabovski's names don't need to be in this thread.
3rd for Connolly is fine. We lose some centre insurance in case of injuries but he could be a good fit for PHX I have a feeling, or if you want Lambo back.

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12-27-2012, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
I wouldn't trade a locked up stalwart D like Klesla for a pending UFA in MacArthur.

Connolly and Colborne for Klesla is a horrible proposal. For Connolly I'd offer a 3rd or 4th round pick. Tops.

I wouldn't offer Klesla for Bailey, either. I don't see how Bailey helps our issue at center. I'd put in a waiver claim to give him a shot. Maybe even offer a pick for the opportunity to try him out in Tippett's system. Noway I'd move an extremely effective and valuable roster player like Klesla for him.

Boedker and Grabovski's names don't need to be in this thread.
Problem is -- that's an incredibly one-sided trade.

The Leafs aren't looking to get worse in the immediate, and trading Connolly for nothing is probably going to ensure that happens.

Now, I'm not saying that the Coyotes should trade Klesla for MacArthur, or Connolly for that matter. What I am saying is that if the Coyotes want to add talent to their NHL roster from Toronto, they need to be prepared to part with talent on their NHL roster to get it.

As far as defencemen go, Klesla is a pretty good fit for the vacant spot in our top 4, requiring somebody who can play a stay-at-home role. If we can fill that role, it would certainly be worthwhile to do so at the cost of depth at our strongest position (wing-MacArthur). It would also likely make Franson more expendable. Parting with a centre would also likely be possible.

My proposal, would be something along the lines of MacArthur, Franson, and Lombardi for Klesla & a 3rd round pick. Phoenix gets 2 guys that can immediately address holes in their lineup, first crack at resigning them, and a defenceman to replace Klesla while ensuring that they don't lose him for nothing.

Toronto fills the hole in their blueline, and loses 3 assets that they probably won't miss. Pick up a 3rd round pick to reflect the fact Toronto gives up some decent youth upside in the deal, and foregoes the bounty they could get for MacArthur in terms of picks.

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12-27-2012, 09:42 PM
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I like MacArthur. Really, I do. I think he gets knocked for things that aren't his fault, but there is no way I'd move Klesla for him. If you don't think you'd move him for less than Klesla, that's certainly your prerogative.
Lombardi is a retread at this point. Would Phoenix look at him as a free agent? Probably, because they could use a bottom six center and he has experience with Tippett. Would I pick him up on his current contract for a half-season run before he hits free agency? Not if it meant giving up anything at all meaningful. Mid-round pick would be all that I'd offer up. Connelly is more tempting, but only very little.
I don't see a spot for Franson with Phoenix. Even with Klesla gone, I'd rather see Stone/Summers/Schlemko. I'm not of the opinion, that Franson is crap, but I don't see that he is any better than the bottom pairing guys Phoenix has in the system. I think Stone and Summers both have more upside (and are both younger and are NHL-ready). Schlemko was surprisingly reliable last year. I'm not sold on him, but I think he's comparable to Franson at this point; they both have talent. Franson's certainly not more interesting long-term than guys like Gormley, Rundblad, etc so it lacks appeal on that level, too.
There is zero motivation to move a rock-solid defenseman on a reasonable contract for a solid 2nd line winger with an expiring contract and two plugs, imo. Nevermind adding a 3rd rounder for the privilege.


Last edited by _Del_: 12-27-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 06:47 AM
  #17
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I like MacArthur. Really, I do. I think he gets knocked for things that aren't his fault, but there is no way I'd move Klesla for him. If you don't think you'd move him for less than Klesla, that's certainly your prerogative.
Lombardi is a retread at this point. Would Phoenix look at him as a free agent? Probably, because they could use a bottom six center and he has experience with Tippett. Would I pick him up on his current contract for a half-season run before he hits free agency? Not if it meant giving up anything at all meaningful. Mid-round pick would be all that I'd offer up. Connelly is more tempting, but only very little.
I don't see a spot for Franson with Phoenix. Even with Klesla gone, I'd rather see Stone/Summers/Schlemko. I'm not of the opinion, that Franson is crap, but I don't see that he is any better than the bottom pairing guys Phoenix has in the system. I think Stone and Summers both have more upside (and are both younger and are NHL-ready). Schlemko was surprisingly reliable last year. I'm not sold on him, but I think he's comparable to Franson at this point; they both have talent. Franson's certainly not more interesting long-term than guys like Gormley, Rundblad, etc so it lacks appeal on that level, too.
There is zero motivation to move a rock-solid defenseman on a reasonable contract for a solid 2nd line winger with an expiring contract and two plugs, imo. Nevermind adding a 3rd rounder for the privilege.
Really, it comes down to valuation. If a season does happen, it's likely going to be with a prorated $70m cap, simply to ensure it can start as quickly as possible. That means guys who have 1-year contracts will have cap hits that are pretty much irrelevant, as so few teams are near the $70m mark.

If the Coyotes wanted MacArthur for the season, or a player like him. They'd have to pay, and the cost would be substantially more than a 3rd round pick. Similar with Lombardi, who probably would cost less than a 3rd, but still have a cost associated. Of course, Phoenix isn't in a position to give up draft picks for rentals,, nor are they in a position to give up a guy like Rostislav Klesla with the risk of losing him for nothing afterwards, so you add in a Franson-3rd swap, which is probably a win on the valuation side for the Coyotes.

Maybe Franson isn't the right piece, and a 3rd team needs to get involved to give the Coyotes a forward prospect or pick instead of Franson.

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12-28-2012, 08:46 AM
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Toronto has a lot of forwards (6) on their last year before UFA. The Coyotes won't pay top dollar for any of these players and will not win any bidding war. They also like their depth at 'D'. Also they are at 48 contracts and likely not to add to that #. Sullivan, Torres, and Johnson are the 3 (future UFA) forwards not likely to be resigned and may be included in a multi-player deal.
I wouldn't mind trading Bissonette (and a draft pick) in any deal for Connolly.

How about Bissonette, Torres (hate to see him go, but he may need to be traded to an Eastern team), and a 4th for Connolly and Brown.

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12-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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Toronto has a lot of forwards (6) on their last year before UFA. The Coyotes won't pay top dollar for any of these players and will not win any bidding war. They also like their depth at 'D'. Also they are at 48 contracts and likely not to add to that #. Sullivan, Torres, and Johnson are the 3 (future UFA) forwards not likely to be resigned and may be included in a multi-player deal.
I wouldn't mind trading Bissonette (and a draft pick) in any deal for Connolly.

How about Bissonette, Torres (hate to see him go, but he may need to be traded to an Eastern team), and a 4th for Connolly and Brown.
As dumb as it sounds.....i do not want to deal Brown...like....at all.

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12-28-2012, 12:15 PM
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If the Coyotes wanted MacArthur for the season, or a player like him. They'd have to pay, and the cost would be substantially more than a 3rd round pick.
I never suggested a third for MacAurther. I just think Klesla and a his contract are worth more than half a season or less than MacArthur. Lombardi and Franson would not add enough value to tempt Phoenix to deal Klesla. I don't think they're in a hurry to deal Klesla.

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12-28-2012, 04:39 PM
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Toronto has a lot of forwards (6) on their last year before UFA. The Coyotes won't pay top dollar for any of these players and will not win any bidding war. They also like their depth at 'D'. Also they are at 48 contracts and likely not to add to that #. Sullivan, Torres, and Johnson are the 3 (future UFA) forwards not likely to be resigned and may be included in a multi-player deal.
I wouldn't mind trading Bissonette (and a draft pick) in any deal for Connolly.

How about Bissonette, Torres (hate to see him go, but he may need to be traded to an Eastern team), and a 4th for Connolly and Brown.
Nope... again a totally one sided deal.

Bissonette, while does bring toughness and entertainment, plays Toronto's deepest position, would be our 13th/14th forward, and likely block youth on occasion as well. Torres is pretty much redundant as well. Brown is a good penalty killer, and an ideal 4th liner especially with his salary. Connolly is necessary as long as Bozak is our #1 C.

To put it simply, the Leafs aren't going to place any value on getting NHL, or NHL-ready wingers, and aren't going to place any value on centres unless that centre is better than Tyler Bozak.

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I never suggested a third for MacAurther. I just think Klesla and a his contract are worth more than half a season or less than MacArthur. Lombardi and Franson would not add enough value to tempt Phoenix to deal Klesla. I don't think they're in a hurry to deal Klesla.
They may not be. I'm simply saying that if they're looking at adding immediate help up front, they're going to have to pay for that. There's unlikely to be many teams looking to offload salaries right away. If Klesla isn't part of the long term plan, they're prepared to deal Klesla right now, they're certainly better off to do that then they are lose draft picks.

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12-28-2012, 05:37 PM
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Connolly and Colborne for Klesla is a horrible proposal. For Connolly I'd offer a 3rd or 4th round pick. Tops.
I don't see what's so horrible. It's a dollar-for-dollar trade in total contracts and brings in a (right handed) center that should replace Langkow's production + and adds a forward prospect with NHL potential, something the Yotes are short on. If they like what they see, they can try to re-sign Connolly at a number that fits. If not, he's added to the Langkow/Belanger/Lang pile of one (playoff run) and done Yote veteran centers.

10 months ago, during the heat of a playoff race, Summers and Stone auditioned for the 3rd pairing.

http://coyotes.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=619873

From everything I've seen since then, they've done nothing to show any signs of regression. But maybe you've caught a few more Portland games and seen something? Depth wise, there's still Rundblad, Schlemko and Gormley.

Sullivan/Hanzal/Vrbata
Boedker/Vermette/Doan
Korpikoski/Connolly/Moss
Torres/Gordon/Chipchura
Bizz/Johnson

Yandle/Morris
OEL/Michalek
Summers/Stone
Schlemko

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12-28-2012, 05:41 PM
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Bissonette, while does bring toughness and entertainment, plays Toronto's deepest position, would be our 13th/14th forward, and likely block youth on occasion as well.
Don't get me wrong, because I don't like Bissonette on the roster (nor am I trying to pawn him off on you), but he is a serviceable emergency defenseman as well as 13th grit-forward. And that versatility is valued by GM's -- not too mention the GM in question would be Burke of all people. I wouldn't recommend giving up anything more than a very late pick or AHL-filler/long-shot to acquire him, but Maloney is apparently in love with him.

Quote:
If Klesla isn't part of the long term plan, ...
That's just it; I don't think they've made such a decision. Maybe after Gormley/Rundblad prove something at the NHL level. I value Klesla higher than MacArthur (even considering the near logjam on the blueline) ; reasonable people can disagree. But a MacArthur-Klesla doesn't tempt me right now. MacArthur and filler for Klesla and a 3rd is even less tempting. If the season is cancelled, obviously, it's moot.

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12-28-2012, 06:11 PM
  #24
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If Klesla isn't part of the long term plan, they're prepared to deal Klesla right now, they're certainly better off to do that then they are lose draft picks.
The Klesla trade continues to be one of Maloney's best. I'd imagine the Coyotes are keen to change the doors and windows on the house but want the foundation to stay the same. Klesla was arguably the Coyotes best D in the playoffs. The Leafs would probably be better served trying to fish one of the Coyotes NHL ready D prospects out of the system.

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12-28-2012, 07:08 PM
  #25
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Toronto has a lot of forwards (6) on their last year before UFA. The Coyotes won't pay top dollar for any of these players and will not win any bidding war. They also like their depth at 'D'. Also they are at 48 contracts and likely not to add to that #. Sullivan, Torres, and Johnson are the 3 (future UFA) forwards not likely to be resigned and may be included in a multi-player deal.
I wouldn't mind trading Bissonette (and a draft pick) in any deal for Connolly.

How about Bissonette, Torres (hate to see him go, but he may need to be traded to an Eastern team), and a 4th for Connolly and Brown.
I like it. If you leave out Bissonette and Brown. I don't like that swap, Brown brings alot to the table and has become a fan favourite. Not that Bissonette couldn't become one in Toronto.

Torres + 4th for Connolly

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