Right, but that also doesn't seem insurmountable, after the money has been agreed to. Split the difference, 7 or 8 year CBA? I was focusing on contract limits because of Daly's "hill we die on" comment.
Right, but that also doesn't seem insurmountable, after the money has been agreed to. Split the difference, 7 or 8 year CBA? I was focusing on contract limits because of Daly "hill we die on" comment.
The money was never agreed to.
The NHL said we'll give you the money, you give us contract limit. Players took the money and offered alternative.
At end of the day, yes, they aren't that far but if players don't want to give limits, then why would NHL agree to giving more money? It's not really about what's right or wrong but from NHL point of view, that was the deal.
The NHL said we'll give you the money, you give us contract limit. Players took the money and offered alternative.
At end of the day, yes, they aren't that far but if players don't want to give limits, then why would NHL agree to giving more money? It's not really about what's right or wrong but from NHL point of view, that was the deal.
To end the embarrassing money grab that is this lockout. To do their job, which is to ensure that hockey is played.
Frame the situation however you want, bottom line is, there were two offers with identical money:
- 50/50, 250m make whole, 50m pension, 5/7 year contract limits, 10 year CBA
- 50/50, 250m make whole, 50m pension, 8 year contract limits, 6-8 year CBA
IMO that is not enough of a difference to cancel a season.
So if it were 100 mil make whole and 8 year length players should agree?
Point was they negotiated the make whole higher in return for limits. For whatever reason that's not included in the nhlpa's package.
I don't know about that exact figure, but yes, if the players want to continue under the same general system, they'd do better agreeing to what they think is less than a fair deal, rather than miss more time. I'd still rather see them permanently dissolve the union, so that we never have to go through this again... but if they are not willing to go through that process this time around, they might as well swallow their pride.
If I was an owner, I'd also be pushing to get the deal done asap. They shouldn't want this to go to the courts, and if they agree to the latest union proposal as is, they still "win" the negotiations by a mile.
The owners proposal is for an 8-year CBA, with a 2-year option at the end if both sides agree. Have you ever heard of an option where both sides have to agree? No, it's a smokescreen with which to fight the public relations war. If you think about it, every single agreement in the history of mankind had the possibility of being renewed at the end if both sides agreed.
An option is only an option if it leans in one direction.
Actually, those are the only things that were agreed on, before the latest fit of hissy. 50/50 HRR split, $250M make whole, $50M outside the HRR split to pensions.
That's never been confirmed. Many sources say that the players' proposal continues to included clauses that turn it into an essentially de-linked system, such as a clause that does not allow the players share to ever decrease from the previous year. So there's linkage, but only upwards linkage.
That's never been confirmed. Many sources say that the players' proposal continues to included clauses that turn it into an essentially de-linked system, such as a clause that does not allow the players share to ever decrease from the previous year. So there's linkage, but only upwards linkage.
I've seen reports of the BOG rejecting the latest union offer based on contract length limits, CBA term and buyout calculations, but not on linkage limits. What are the sources you are citing?
They don't care about these things so much. Egos. That's what they're fighting over. Bragging rights as to who "won".
Disgusting how much no one cares about the fans in those negociations.
The players already lost more in this cancelled half-season than what the owners wanted to rollback in the first place.
Every time I hear this 'ego' argument re Bettman and Fehr I just Vom. It's the stupidest most ignorant argument you can possibly make. Yes, of course they have egos, but not in the way you think. They honour their contracts, and take pride in carrying them out to the best of their abilities. That is their 'ego'.
1. Fehr represents the players. They employ him. Therefore he is being Duly Diligent and trying for the best deal possible, and he is well aware that losing a full season as a 3rd liner on 1 mill is bad, very bad. I would wager that every player understands the situation they are in right now, and that Fehr will give them the chance to agree to a deal. He is a professional, not Han Solo.
2. Bettman has to deal with maniacs like Jacobs. Jacobs is his boss. I would not work for Jacobs, but Bettman does, at the moment. I am sure he is heartily sick of it too. But at this time, he has a contract. He follows morally acceptable orders from his bosses, even if he may not agree with them. So do I, and I am an independent registered professional. As long as I work for my boss, I will only disobey him if he asks me to lie, cheat, steal or endanger the public I design buildings for. He owns my office, not me. We are very clear on this, and my boss knows it. I am sure Bettman has told the governers the same thing. He is employed by the owners. He is not Darth Vader.
But in your world, Bettman and Fehr are in Star wars 7, fighting with light sabres. Grasp reality, please.
Look to Jacobs and his ilk if you want to blame.That has been my position from the beginning, and it is more justified every day.
I've seen reports of the BOG rejecting the latest union offer based on contract length limits, CBA term and buyout calculations, but not on linkage limits. What are the sources you are citing?
Honestly I don't remember where it is from, but it is discussed in the lockout thread on the main forum.
The players' offer was NOT a straight 50-50 split...It is 50-50 with clauses in place that do not allow the players' share to ever decrease. Therefore, it is only upwards linkage, not real linkage.
Thursday, December 27, 2012, 10:46am
With NHL games canceled through Jan. 14 and no end to
the 103-day-old lockout in sight, hockey fans aren't the
only ones growing less optimistic about the chances of a
2012-13 season.
As such, Flyers center Danny Briere -- who's been playing
with Eisbaren Berlin of the Deutsche Eishockey Liga of
Germany since October -- signed a contract extension on
Thursday through the end of the DEL season, his agent,
Pat Brisson, confirms.
@Real_ESPNLeBrun: An NHL player says the NHL made a new offer to the NHLPA on Thursday, one which moved on contract term limits, buyouts and variance...
