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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-27-2012, 09:47 PM
  #26
LatvianTwist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
We dump and chase. Our team doesn't score goals. The fact that he accounted for 5 goals on a goal hungry team is astonishing.
Players do go on hot streaks, you know. Especially when they've got something to prove or earn in a short amount of time.

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12-27-2012, 09:48 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
That's not a unique problem. R. Smith and Chiasson both went through the same thing, that's actually pretty common in college.
When it happens to you on BC, your stats are going to take a hit. He broke out last year and I bet if there were a season this year, we wouldn't be having this debate, because you'd see why he's seen as an elite prospect.

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12-27-2012, 09:49 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Players do go on hot streaks, you know. Especially when they've got something to prove or earn in a short amount of time.
This is your argument? Really? I can't respond to that, it's too weak, and I mean that in a non-offensive way. There is just no response to that, it's crap.

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12-27-2012, 09:52 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
When it happens to you on BC, your stats are going to take a hit. He broke out last year and I bet if there were a season this year, we wouldn't be having this debate, because you'd see why he's seen as an elite prospect.
The only time I mentioned college stats was in the OP, and I was referring only to their junior seasons and how comparable they were.

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12-27-2012, 09:52 PM
  #30
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12-27-2012, 09:54 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Can you prove that I'm wrong? No. I'm not saying it was a hot streak, but we won't know until he gets a lengthier chance. You can't discount that possibility, and if you do, you really are just a blind homer.
Well let's try this....you said you watched Kreider....what is your scouting report. Throw stats out the door, what did you actually see?

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12-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
So he had a solid shift and a nice snipe. That shift was impressive, but it's just one shift.

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12-27-2012, 09:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Because I do think it is a hot streak, but I'm not discounting the possibility that it wasn't, unlike you.
I understand that. From either one of our point of views, this is, in fact, a stupid debate. Let's wait until we have a larger sampling.

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Well let's try this....you said you watched Kreider....what is your scouting report. Throw stats out the door, what did you actually see?
This.

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12-27-2012, 09:56 PM
  #34
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Well let's try this....you said you watched Kreider....what is your scouting report. Throw stats out the door, what did you actually see?
He did have some good speed, and some decent awareness, slightly above average. From what I saw, I think a comparable player for me would be Mason Raymond. Speedy, decent offensive instincts and some good tools, but just not there as a whole.

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12-27-2012, 09:58 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
He did have some good speed, and some decent awareness, slightly above average. From what I saw, I think a comparable player for me would be Mason Raymond. Speedy, decent offensive instincts and some good tools, but just not there as a whole.
Remember that it was the playoffs, not the regular season. Completely different animal. For the most part, he was sound defensively, and was not an offensive liability. As he got more comfortable as the games went on, he got more and more physical and lost his innocence. From the 2nd half of the Washington series, into the NJ series, you could see how different and how much better he was playing. And I'm not even looking at his stat line from that time period. Just watching him play, he was playing much better.

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12-27-2012, 10:00 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
Remember that it was the playoffs, not the regular season. Completely different animal. For the most part, he was sound defensively, and was not an offensive liability. As he got more comfortable as the games went on, he got more and more physical and lost his innocence.
I did notice this as well but didn't think much of it. For a 21 year old, it actually is somewhat impressive, but I still don't see it as top 15 prospect worthy.

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12-27-2012, 10:00 PM
  #37
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He was the Ranger's best forward in the Devils series. Even in games 4-6 when he didn't score. I remember some very big hits coming from him, I remember him forechecking extremely well.

I also remember Kreider being out there with Stepan in the last seconds of Ottawa Game 7.

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12-27-2012, 10:02 PM
  #38
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Seriously, go back and watch the Washington series and the NJ series (if you have the time), and keep in mind everything we've told you, and see if you look at him differently and pick up on things you didn't pick up on when you watched it live.

The difference between us:

I bet when you watched, you were watching the Rangers vs Capitals or Rangers vs Devils.

When I was watching, I made sure to eye in on Kreider every single time I saw him on the ice and focused on him sometimes more than I did anything else.

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12-27-2012, 10:07 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
Seriously, go back and watch the Washington series and the NJ series (if you have the time), and keep in mind everything we've told you, and see if you look at him differently and pick up on things you didn't pick up on when you watched it live.

The difference between us:

I bet when you watched, you were watching the Rangers vs Capitals or Rangers vs Devils.

When I was watching, I made sure to eye in on Kreider every single time I saw him on the ice and focused on him sometimes more than I did anything else.
I'll try, as there might have been something I missed. But again, if you focus on one player the entire game, especially one that you have a personal preference for, you tend to only focus on the good things they do and it impedes your judgment on their game (I've done it myself several times with Stars' players, not saying its bad or anything but simply that they could be whats happening here).

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12-27-2012, 10:09 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I'll try, as there might have been something I missed. But again, if you focus on one player the entire game, especially one that you have a personal preference for, you tend to only focus on the good things they do and it impedes your judgment on their game (I've done it myself several times with Stars' players, not saying its bad or anything but simply that they could be whats happening here).
I agree. I did notice many negatives, though. Like I said, as the games went on, he got better and better, meaning I was not very impressed early on. He made mistakes here and there as does every rookie (most noticeably the giveaway to Ovechkin that resulted in a goal).

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12-27-2012, 10:10 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Callys Chicken Parm View Post
I agree. I did notice many negatives, though. Like I said, as the games went on, he got better and better, meaning I was not very impressed early on. He made mistakes here and there as does every rookie (most noticeably the giveaway to Ovechkin that resulted in a goal).
Ah, okay. That definitely makes more sense. I'll try, but I'm pretty busy for the next few days.

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12-27-2012, 10:10 PM
  #42
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This is the worst thread I have ever seen on the Rangers board. A guy comes on here questioning a player, gets a lot of legitimate responses (and a bunch of lulzy ones), and still keeps trying to disparage said player. Unbelievable.

And comparing him to Reilly Smith? Really?

Reilly Smith is a barely averaged sized player with decent skating and decent everything else. He's an OK prospect. I watched him a bit in college and I like him as a prospect, but he's not anything amazing.

Kreider is a giant player with top-5 speed, a great shot, and a nice physical game. He has decent everything else. So, as you can see, Kreider has a massive advantage over Reilly in speed and size. He also has a much nicer shot. Kreider is a fantastic prospect who, if he puts it all together, has the potential to be a 70 point player with a physical game to match.

Kreider has been playing with people who a) can't keep up with him and b) are fairly unskilled in comparison. Has he been great? Not at all. But the stats don't tell the whole story and to remotely suggest that they do (like you have been) is ludicrous. And that stance would deserve all of the nasty comments that have been given.

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Old
12-27-2012, 10:12 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Ah, okay. That definitely makes more sense. I'll try, but I'm pretty busy for the next few days.
By all means, don't make it your priority

Just watch a few games if you can.

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12-27-2012, 10:14 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
So he had a solid shift and a nice snipe. That shift was impressive, but it's just one shift.
No one is saying he's a finished product. The biggest factor for long term success at the pro level of anything is consistency. Once a round I will hit a shot as good as Tiger. He does it (just about) every shot.

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12-27-2012, 10:17 PM
  #45
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He came to the team in the middle of the playoffs. With no training camp, and hardly any team practices. He had basically no time to learn the system. He played on pure adrenaline and hockey smarts. His first game, Ottawa Game 3 (?), he was basically there because of Hagelin's suspension, and because it was either Kreider or John Scott.

He obviously impressed the coach enough to keep him after Hagelin came back. Don't you think Tortorella might have seen something in his game which maybe you didn't pick up? He was on the ice with seconds to go in Game 7 where the Rangers held a one goal lead.

I really recommend watching the Devils series. the Rangers forwards in that series were embarrassing for the most part. Kreider, I'd say, was the best out of them all.

You even had Devils fans saying they were impressed. those guys don't like the Rangers very much, in case you didn't know.

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12-27-2012, 10:18 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
No one is saying he's a finished product. The biggest factor for long term success at the pro level of anything is consistency. Once a round I will hit a shot as good as Tiger. He does it (just about) every shot.
Of course.

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12-27-2012, 10:26 PM
  #47
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You want to know what the big deal is about Kreider? Read the scouting reports. Otherwise, this thread is ridiculous. Hey, here's an idea. How about one of us go over the the Dallas board and start comparing Jamie Benn to Mats Zuccarello. That seems about even.

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12-27-2012, 10:39 PM
  #48
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I was wondering when a thread like this was going to pop up

Before I saw Jonathon's posts, I was preparing a draft to push KU's point but hey, we're all better now.

Look at the player and not everything else about the player. It's a funny idea I throw around once in a while and it doesn't usually get a lot of love but here it goes.

All the stats, game performances, chemistry with certain players, playoff/regular season performance, consistency, AHL/NHL performance etc, Junior years, college hockey etc. are all ways of evaluating a player without actually just understanding the strengths and weaknesses of a player in the grand scheme of things or even the NHL scheme of things.

For Kreider, there's a lot of (well deserved) hype and with the 0 games to prove his dominance in the playoffs wasn't a fluke, you basically have all sorts of other ways to evaluate him. AHL stats on a team that is being **** owned with a defensively system (where the defense is still crap) is the only thing people have to base their opinion off of.

It's funny how 1 season in the NHL "doesn't prove ****" when people are arguing against a player and then a mess of 1/2 season in the AHL is enough to draw conclusions with. Aside from AHL games that people didn't even bother to watch and is only extrapolating from stats, comparisons of a Stalberg lite is being made which really doesn't make a lot of sense anyway.

Actually delve into the player for what he is, when possible.

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12-27-2012, 11:04 PM
  #49
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Try and stay on topic without the bickering please. Thanks.

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12-27-2012, 11:07 PM
  #50
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We've had plenty of questioning of Kreider's lack of production in the Whale thread, why does this board turn into a pack mentality the minute a non-Rangers fan suggests the same thing a lot of our own have been? Say what you want about his frame and project-ability, you can't deny a lot of us having been making excuses about his lack of scoring on the Whale.

People were slotting Kreider in for 50-60 points and a Calder after last playoffs. Now we see maybe he's not quite as ready as we thought. What's wrong with another fan-base saying the same thing? It's a valid argument given his play on the Whale this year. Not just stats, including watching him play down there.


Last edited by Chairman Maouth: 12-27-2012 at 11:29 PM. Reason: quote edited out.
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