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Re-signing Matthew Lombardi

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Old
12-27-2012, 08:18 PM
  #51
ponder
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
I guess you missed this "If he's playing at the same calibre as he did pre-concussion" part of my post...
I guess I just don't see much of a reason to expect him to bounce back. He turns 31 in a couple months, super severe concussions (like the one Lombardi suffered) are career changers for lots of players, and he really showed no improvement/progress throughout the course of last season. He was a shadow of his former self last year, he could bounce back a fair bit and still not be good enough to make our team, he'd have to bounce back all the way to his prime to be much of an asset. That seems very unlikely to me. It's not often that you see a 30+ year old recover from a full season of being more or less not NHL quality, only to become a real asset in the future. A season like the one Lombardi had last year generally means "put a fork in him, he's done."

Let me put it this way: Scott Gomez is pretty much a VERY rich man's Lombardi, he plays a similar style, but did it way better in his prime. Gomez isn't much older than Lombardi (Gomez just turned 33 a few days ago, Lombardi turns 31 in a couple months), and he hasn't suffered a real career shortening injury like Lombardi's concussion either, but still nobody is expect him to bounce back significantly. When an undersized, 30+ year old player becomes more or less useless for 1+ seasons, there's generally not a whole lot of hope. Expecting Lombardi to return to his prime isn't much different than expecting Gomez to return to his prime.

You mentioned Lombardi being a great fit on the 3rd line, if he can get his game back. I'd say we have 7 forwards who are very clearly going to be on the top 3 lines (Kessel, Lupul, Bozak, Grabo, JVR, Kulemin and MacArthur). That leaves 2 spots left on the 3rd line. Battling for those 2 spots are Frattin, Kadri, Connolly and McClement. Lombardi would have to be better than at least 3 of those guys to have a spot on the 3rd line. In reality I don't think he's better than any of them, even if he's playing quite a bit better than he was last year.


Last edited by ponder: 12-27-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old
12-27-2012, 08:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I guess I just don't see much of a reason to expect him to bounce back. He turns 31 in a couple months, super severe concussions (like the one Lombardi suffered) are career changers for lots of players, and he really showed no improvement/progress throughout the course of last season. He was a shadow of his former self last year, he could bounce back a fair bit and still not be good enough to make our team, he'd have to bounce back all the way to his prime to be much of an asset. That seems very unlikely to me.

You mentioned Lombardi being a great fit on the 3rd line, if he can get his game back. I'd say we have 7 forwards who are very clearly going to be on the top 3 lines (Kessel, Lupul, Bozak, Grabo, JVR, Kulemin and MacArthur). That leaves 2 spots left on the 3rd line. Battling for those 2 spots are Frattin, Kadri, Connolly and McClement. Lombardi would have to be better than at least 3 of those guys to have a spot on the 3rd line. In reality I don't think he's better than any of them, even if he's playing quite a bit better than he was last year.
That's how I feel as well. When you start doing the players math, Lombardi seems to only make the team if there are major injury troubles. Even then I would prefer to call up a prospect or something. Give McKegg a couple games or something like that.

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12-27-2012, 08:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I guess I just don't see much of a reason to expect him to bounce back. He turns 31 in a couple months, super severe concussions (like the one Lombardi suffered) are career changers for lots of players, and he really showed no improvement/progress throughout the course of last season. He was a shadow of his former self last year, he could bounce back a fair bit and still not be good enough to make our team, he'd have to bounce back all the way to his prime to be much of an asset. That seems very unlikely to me. It's not often that you see a 30+ year old recover from a full season of being more or less not NHL quality, only to become a real asset in the future. A season like the one Lombardi had last year generally means "put a fork in him, he's done."

You mentioned Lombardi being a great fit on the 3rd line, if he can get his game back. I'd say we have 7 forwards who are very clearly going to be on the top 3 lines (Kessel, Lupul, Bozak, Grabo, JVR, Kulemin and MacArthur). That leaves 2 spots left on the 3rd line. Battling for those 2 spots are Frattin, Kadri, Connolly and McClement. Lombardi would have to be better than at least 3 of those guys to have a spot on the 3rd line. In reality I don't think he's better than any of them, even if he's playing quite a bit better than he was last year.
Lombardi missed an entire year and then 20 games in the middle of last season as well... I'm not sure what you were expecting exactly. He isn't Crosby and never has been, even in Calgary he where he was great he was a .5 points a game player. His real value is his defensive play and speed which he hasn't lost. I see no reason why a 31 year old cannot find his form again and like I said, MacArthur is a stop gap. He won't be here for much longer. Frattin and Kadri should only be given spots if they can actually earn it and Connolly will be lucky to last the year regardless of anyone elses play.

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12-27-2012, 08:31 PM
  #54
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Lombardi has no place on this team. He's another Jason Blake, minus the good season. Skate fast, work hard, accomplish nothing.

Connolly likewise is a supermassive black hole of money for this team, if last season is an indication of what we'll get from him. Between Lombardi, Connolly, and Komisarek we have just shy of $13 million being flushed down the toilet. That's a lot of money that could have been thrown at things this team desperately needs (ie a high end center, and a goalie).

You would only consider re-signing Lombardi if he takes a huge pay cut and shows up for training camp looking unstoppable....for a third liner.

There seems to be a misconception that you need to be big and strong and physical to be on a shutdown line. That might be ideal for the wingers, but not for the center. The center mostly has to be tenacious and, above all, an excellent skater. Lombardi is at least one of those things.

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12-27-2012, 08:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Lombardi missed an entire year and then 20 games in the middle of last season as well... I'm not sure what you were expecting exactly. He isn't Crosby and never has been, even in Calgary he where he was great he was a .5 points a game player. His real value is his defensive play and speed which he hasn't lost. I see no reason why a 31 year old cannot find his form again and like I said, MacArthur is a stop gap. He won't be here for much longer. Frattin and Kadri should only be given spots if they can actually earn it and Connolly will be lucky to last the year regardless of anyone elses play.
Why is MacArthur a stop gap, but Lombardi isn't? MacArthur is 3 years younger than Lombardi, for the past two seasons he's been as good as Lombardi has ever been, last season he was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than Lombardi, and he's more suited to a bottom 6 role than Lombardi is (bigger and tougher). I just do not get this logic at all.

Again, I really cannot think of many examples of a 30+ year old player fading to being more or less completely useless, only to bounce back into a good/valuable player.

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12-27-2012, 09:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Why is MacArthur a stop gap, but Lombardi isn't? MacArthur is 3 years younger than Lombardi, for the past two seasons he's been as good as Lombardi has ever been, last season he was WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY better than Lombardi, and he's more suited to a bottom 6 role than Lombardi is (bigger and tougher). I just do not get this logic at all.

Again, I really cannot think of many examples of a 30+ year old player fading to being more or less completely useless, only to bounce back into a good/valuable player.
Because he's not as good for the bottom 6 at all and he's not good enough for the top 6. He's like a PA Parenteau.. good player who can put up points given the chance but will never really be on a good team because neither of them can play bottom 6 roles and neither of them are good enough as a top 6 player on a good team.

Lombardi on the other hand has always been a bottom six player until he went to PHX and he was great in that role. I'm not going to write him off because he wasn't the same after missing an entire year plus a good chunk of that comeback year as well.

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12-27-2012, 09:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kessely Snipes View Post
I hope this guy finds a place to play in the NHL, but not with the Leafs.
This.......If Burke re-signs Lombardi, the Leafs are in trouble. Don't hate the guy but do not want the guy either.

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12-27-2012, 10:17 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Lombardi has no place on this team. He's another Jason Blake, minus the good season. Skate fast, work hard, accomplish nothing.
If i was GM i wouldnt want to see him get hit hard again and be concussed. I wouldnt want to watch a player go through that, its not fun. I hope he never has another one. Insert Jerry D'amigo. PK upside and hard worker with good wheels. Salary under 1 million. First and foremost, Id give Lombardi a chance this year to see what he brings to the table and that he is durable and go from there. Im thinking he wont offer much, nothing personal.

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12-27-2012, 11:21 PM
  #59
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Don't resign him. Play Ashton in the 4th line. I know he didn't play to well in the bigs last year, but i've went to the past couple marlies games and he's showed that he's got wheels, he can drop the gloves, he can hit, he's reliable defensively, and he can score. Ideal 4th liner.

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12-27-2012, 11:32 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Because he's not as good for the bottom 6 at all and he's not good enough for the top 6. He's like a PA Parenteau.. good player who can put up points given the chance but will never really be on a good team because neither of them can play bottom 6 roles and neither of them are good enough as a top 6 player on a good team.

Lombardi on the other hand has always been a bottom six player until he went to PHX and he was great in that role. I'm not going to write him off because he wasn't the same after missing an entire year plus a good chunk of that comeback year as well.
Burke has said that the league has changed to a top 8/9 and a bottom 3/4. Lombardi may have been better for a bottom 6 role in the past, but now the league has changed apparently and I would rather have MacArthur playing hands down.

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12-28-2012, 09:32 AM
  #61
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Burke has said that the league has changed to a top 8/9 and a bottom 3/4. Lombardi may have been better for a bottom 6 role in the past, but now the league has changed apparently and I would rather have MacArthur playing hands down.
Referring to a Moen/Pahlsson/Neidermayer type line where none of them will put up 20 points but can shut teams down. Lombardi was always in the 30-40 range, killed penalties, was solid 2-ways and has tremendous speed. If he's playing at the level he played at before the concussion (and I'm not even talking about the career year in PHX), he's a better option than McClement or Steckel.

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12-29-2012, 10:10 AM
  #62
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Lombardi should be better whenever the NHL returns.

»verybody criticizes Lombardi for having hands of stone which is a fair assessment but nobody also every mentions how he managed to actually get himself into scoring opportunities that a lot of 3rd=4th liners can`t do a regular basis. And how for a 3rd-4th liner his hands are actually average with the potential to get back to being above average.

Lombardi has great wheels, was very highly regarded for his PK abilities and was a tweener prior to his injury. If he can be signed for less than 2 million I`d rather take his upside any day of the week than watch Steckel slug around the ice or having some PK specialist who flat stinks like Dupuis or Sjostrom on the team.

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12-29-2012, 10:13 AM
  #63
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Please don't re-sign him. He was awful for the Leafs last year.

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12-29-2012, 10:22 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Amazing Ralph View Post
Kadri is better in all aspects except speed.


true, no one can argue that, thing is kadri never uses his top speed, when his speed is actually pretty good

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12-29-2012, 10:26 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Morlesio14 View Post
Don't resign him. Play Ashton in the 4th line. I know he didn't play to well in the bigs last year, but i've went to the past couple marlies games and he's showed that he's got wheels, he can drop the gloves, he can hit, he's reliable defensively, and he can score. Ideal 4th liner.


he is a good prospect, no way he is in 4th line, rather have someone like devane on 4th line

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12-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #66
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IIRC Franson signed an overseas deal with no out clause so he wont be available until summer even if there is a season...

question for you guys... if there is a season, and they have a buyout period before this season starts, would the Leafs buy out Lombo or just pay him and try to get some use out of him?
Franson has an agreement with Bynas to let him return if the lockout ends and he can come to a contract agreement with the Leafs.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle4580356/

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12-29-2012, 01:57 PM
  #67
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If you could get him for 1.5-2 mil then I wouldn't mind him on the team. He's got some great upside at that price, can have him on 3rd/4th line duty.

It all really depends on the new CBA though, and the possible FA frenzy next year if there's no season this year.

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12-29-2012, 03:22 PM
  #68
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Most over rated guy in the league, a complete net negative with him in the lineup.

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12-29-2012, 03:26 PM
  #69
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I dont mind Lombardi. He gets payed a lot...but I think he is ok. Theres no reason he cant play on the fourth line.

Would not re-sign tho

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12-29-2012, 04:38 PM
  #70
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To be fair, he's amazing in every NHL game.
hell hes my first line center at 81 overall for the first few years of my GM mode lol

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12-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #71
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To be fair, he's amazing in every NHL game.
That is fair.

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12-29-2012, 05:15 PM
  #72
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And the team would make a leap of faith and resign him for what reason?

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12-31-2012, 02:04 PM
  #73
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He's not un-deserving of an NHL contract, but he is un-deserving of $3.5M/yr.

I would expect him to be back at a Bozak-style discount. If another team offers him more than $1.45M let them have him.

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12-31-2012, 02:08 PM
  #74
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I wonder if he gets the amnesty if that holds up in the CBA.

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12-31-2012, 02:11 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
Lombardi has no place on this team. He's another Jason Blake, minus the good season. Skate fast, work hard, accomplish nothing.

Connolly likewise is a supermassive black hole of money for this team, if last season is an indication of what we'll get from him. Between Lombardi, Connolly, and Komisarek we have just shy of $13 million being flushed down the toilet. That's a lot of money that could have been thrown at things this team desperately needs (ie a high end center, and a goalie).

You would only consider re-signing Lombardi if he takes a huge pay cut and shows up for training camp looking unstoppable....for a third liner.

There seems to be a misconception that you need to be big and strong and physical to be on a shutdown line. That might be ideal for the wingers, but not for the center. The center mostly has to be tenacious and, above all, an excellent skater. Lombardi is at least one of those things.
This is probably the best way to describe Lombardi, and very similar to what I said earlier in the thread.

Lombardi has to impress at training camp, and likely won't be signed to anything more that $1.5M

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