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Dionne vs Esposito (without Orr)

View Poll Results: Dionne vs Espo (without Orr)
Dionne 11 32.35%
Esposito 23 67.65%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-23-2012, 07:04 AM
  #51
Canadiens1958
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True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
That's mainly due to his lack of production and lack of team success in the playoffs.

He may be one of the most underrated players, but that's a matter of opinion of course. However, I think an interesting comparison would be Dionne vs. Selanne. Should Dionne be ranked significantly higher than Selanne, and if so, why?
Very interesting comparable. School of thought going back more than forty years that Dionne should have been a winger. Somewhat predictable as a center with few defensive skills.

Overall Selanne was a better RW then Dionne was a center.

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12-23-2012, 07:15 AM
  #52
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Projections

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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
Which is exactly what I said. And really? We're going to use their coverage in the OHA to decide who was better? Excuse while I call star Gilbert Brule up and see how he's doing.

True, which is why the fact that there may be only one Montreal newspaper on google archives is particularly useless. They were both covered extensively, so it's not like we have to draw only from one newspaper. Like I said, records are better than they were before, thanks, in large part, to google archives, which I'm sure will keep improving.
Projections and weaknesses from junior paint an interesting portrait of a player's NHL career. Esposito's skating was an issue in junior - only one year of OHA, after a Jr B season. Dionne defensive play was an issue. Continued as a problem into the NHL.

Doubtful that the Google Newspaper Archive Project gets better since it was terminated in 2011:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolog...roject/239239/

It will be enhanced slowly as other sources slowly get their newspaper and publication collections online but unless Google changes their position, their newspaper archives will remain stagnant. Fortunately the Google Archive Project is still available online.

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Old
12-23-2012, 02:15 PM
  #53
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Your Math View Post
That's mainly due to his lack of production and lack of team success in the playoffs.

He may be one of the most underrated players, but that's a matter of opinion of course. However, I think an interesting comparison would be Dionne vs. Selanne. Should Dionne be ranked significantly higher than Selanne, and if so, why?
Not even just the playoffs. He had a couple of good international tournaments, but was usually not very impressive there either. I know there are some European posters here who are distinctly not impressed with Dionne.

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Old
12-27-2012, 11:54 PM
  #54
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
It is hard to predict scenarios. Esposito was not going to develop as he did as the third option in Chicago with the coach and ownership not believing in him. Assuming a trade to any other team for Esposito to be more of the man and go to guy on his team then I think Phil Esposito trumps Dionne's career. Maybe not as many points but still he would be considered as a better player. In 1972 he was THE MAN on Team Canada without Orr and took the team on his back as the leader and best player... on a team full of stars and superstars. No way Dionne could ever have done that. Esposito had A 20 POINT playoff at 36 years old on the Rangers that surpasses any Dionne playoff by a wide margin.... even though Esposito was older and a fraction of the force he was in Boston.

Dionne's scoring would be closer to Esposito's if he did not have Orr. But GMs or coaches and HHOF voters and HF board historians would almost unanimously pick Esposito over Dionne.
Exactly.

23-10 in favour of Esposito on a pretty intelligent board says enough. Some might know that there are a few players back in the day that I defend when they get stomped on around here. I try to remind people just how utterly dominant these players were in their own right. Coffey is one of them, and Esposito is often another, and if anyone dares, then Gretzky too. But there is just too much here that proves Esposito was a better player on his own compared to Dionne. I shouldn't even bother needing to bring up the 1972 Summit Series anymore because there was never a time Dionne came close carrying a team quite like that. Esposito did of course - without Orr. In the 1976 Canada Cup a declining Esposito seemed to outplay a prime Dionne who didn't look particularly special. Dionne had teams who were at least as good as the 1979 Rangers but never took them anywhere. Esposito did when he was old. The knock on Esposito is that he didn't win enough Cups. The knock on Dionne was that he never won a 7 game playoff series. Big difference here and I am not saying he should have won a Cup, but with the Triple Crown line alone he should have done more and he didn't.

We get this same type of scenario with a Dionne vs. Lafleur comparison had their roles been reversed. Everything still points to Lafleur being able to carry the Habs better than Dionne could have. We witnessed what Lafleur did and the incredible clutch performances for several years on those teams before he self destructed. But could Dionne do that on the Habs? Would he stand out the way Lafleur did? Many signs point to Dionne not being able to handle that load.

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