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Why did Robitaille win the Calder over Hextall?

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12-23-2012, 12:39 AM
  #1
Cyborg LeClair
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Why did Robitaille win the Calder over Hextall?

Hextall had an amazing rookie season. He won the Vezina, was a first team all star, and won the Conn Smythe that year. How could a rookie be the best player in his position and still lose the Calder? Was Robitaille's 45g 84pts really that outstanding?

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12-23-2012, 01:05 AM
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Well the Conn Smythe is not relevant as voting is done before the playoffs. There was discussion about this at the time if I remember correctly. The conclusion of many was that voters for the Calder often vote on the player that is likely to have the most long term career success and goalies are less reliable. It could be for any number of reasons though, they were close votes.

Voting for Calder: CALDER: Luc Robitaille 208 (25-27-2); Ron Hextall 190 (23-22-9); Jimmy Carson 74 (6-4-32); Brian Benning 5 (0-1-2); Eldon Reddick 4 (0-0-4); Christian Ruuttu 2 (0-0-2); Shawn Burr 2 (0-0-2)

Hextall got 3 Hart votes: HART: Wayne Gretzky 255 (49-3-1); Ray Bourque 95 (2-24-13); Mike Liut 39 (1-7-13); Mario Lemieux 34 (2-6-6); Doug Gilmour 30 (0-9-3); Dale Hawerchuk 11 (0-2-5); Steve Yzerman 5 (0-1-2); Mark Howe 5 (0-1-2); Ron Francis 3 (0-1-0); Ron Hextall 3 (0-0-3); Mark Messier 3 (0-0-3); Dino Ciccarelli 2 (0-0-2); Kevin Dineen 1 (0-0-1)

Vexina vote was close with Liut: VEZINA: Ron Hextall 65 (8-7-4); Mike Liut 60 (7-8-1); Grant Fuhr 19 (1-3-5); Eldon Reddick 13 (2-0-3); Bob Froese 8 (1-1-0); John Vanbiesbrouck 6 (1-0-1); Brian Hayward 6 (1-0-1); Daniel Berthiaume 4 (0-1-1); Andy Moog 4 (0-1-1); Patrick Roy 2 (0-0-2); Mike Vernon 1 (0-0-1); Kelly Hrudey 1 (0-0-1)

Liut got more 1st place All-star votes but lost out overall to Hextall.

ALL-STAR TEAMS:
GOALTENDER: Ron Hextall 198 (22-28-4); Mike Liut 193 (27-18-4); Grant Fuhr 42 (4-3-13); Patrick Roy 29 (1-4-12); Brian Hayward 8 (0-1-5); Eldon Reddick 5 (0-0-5); Mike Vernon 4 (0-0-4); Rejean Lemelin 2 (0-0-2); Andy Moog 2 (0-0-2); Bob Mason 1 (0-0-1)

Robitaille a 2nd team All-Star to Goulet at LW:
LEFT WING: Michel Goulet 239 (43-8-0); Luc Robitaille 131 (6-31-8); Esa Tikkanen 23 (1-4-6); Mats Naslund 22 (2-3-3); Gerard Gallant 22 (0-3-13); Tony Tanti 17 (1-1-9); Brent Ashton 12 (0-2-6); Brian Propp 10 (1-1-2); Glenn Anderson 4 (0-1-1); Wendel Clark 3 (0-0-3); Charlie Simmer 3 (0-0-3)

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12-23-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
Hextall had an amazing rookie season. He won the Vezina, was a first team all star, and won the Conn Smythe that year. How could a rookie be the best player in his position and still lose the Calder? Was Robitaille's 45g 84pts really that outstanding?
Im not taking anyway away from Hextalls rookie season. It was great but this was overall a putrid era for goalies and goalscoring forwards were the commodity of the era.

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12-23-2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Sens Rule View Post
VEZINA: Eldon Reddick 13 (2-0-3); Brian Hayward 6 (1-0-1); Daniel Berthiaume 4 (0-1-1);


ALL-STAR TEAMS:
GOALTENDER: Brian Hayward 8 (0-1-5); Eldon Reddick 5 (0-0-5); Bob Mason 1 (0-0-1)
The 80s, man. Just...the 80s. Pretty excellent forwards and defensemen though!

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12-23-2012, 11:20 AM
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Psycho Papa Joe
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Odd considering Barasso beat out Yzerman just 3 years prior. IMO, as rookie seasons go:

Hextall> Barasso
Yzerman> Robitaille

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12-23-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
The 80s, man. Just...the 80s. Pretty excellent forwards and defensemen though!
Hayward was great as a Hab. Was neck and neck with Roy for three years prior to Roy winning his first Vezina.

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12-23-2012, 11:46 AM
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MiamiScreamingEagles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyborg LeClair View Post
Hextall had an amazing rookie season. He won the Vezina, was a first team all star, and won the Conn Smythe that year. How could a rookie be the best player in his position and still lose the Calder? Was Robitaille's 45g 84pts really that outstanding?
The voters for the Vezina and the Calder were separated by professions: General Managers selected the former and sports writers the latter. The votes were tabulated prior to the start of the playoffs and with that any successes or failures are not available. IIRC, Robitaille had two more first place votes to Hextall for the Calder while Hextall had one more first place vote than Mike Liut, who finished second for the Vezina, which had fewer voters. Also, there was a late regular season game between the Flyers and Kings in Philadelphia in which the eyes of a few undecideds were swayed by Robitaille's two-goal performance in a game in which Hextall was removed by Mike Keenan. About a month earlier, Hextall had a strong performance in a win at Los Angeles.

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12-23-2012, 03:52 PM
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This is a common opinion now but were people at the time they were in a time cognizant that they were in a very weak period for goalies? They seem to be aware that they were in a very deep period for offensive players.

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12-23-2012, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnny Engine View Post
The 80s, man. Just...the 80s. Pretty excellent forwards and defensemen though!
Huh?

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12-24-2012, 10:15 AM
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ot92s
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i remember thinking jimmy carson should have won it that year. he was 18 while luc was 20, he finished a few points behind luc in scoring but luc got to play with dionne for most of the season before the trade. jimmy carson was a pure sniper. very underated.

tough call though, very few players have entertained me over the years as much as hextall did. one of a kind. miss him.

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12-24-2012, 02:08 PM
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The All Star selection isn't a good argument, nor is the Conn Smyth, but it was certainly close. I think 45 goals for a rookie winger is deserving enough.

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12-25-2012, 03:09 AM
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Liut should have won the 1987 Vezina.

The mid-1980s Flyers were a defensive powerhouse that turned Bob Froese into a 'Vezina-calibre' goalie the year previous and did the same for Hextall. An average goalie who never looked the same again because he never had that level of defensive play in front of him again.

Liut - who is probably history's most under-rated player, and the best goalie of the 1980s - produced numbers only slightly worse behind the Stinky Whale in leading them to a division title.

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12-26-2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The All Star selection isn't a good argument, nor is the Conn Smyth, but it was certainly close. I think 45 goals for a rookie winger is deserving enough.
You would think so but playing with Marcel sure didn't hurt.

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i remember thinking jimmy carson should have won it that year. he was 18 while luc was 20, he finished a few points behind luc in scoring but luc got to play with dionne for most of the season before the trade. jimmy carson was a pure sniper. very underated.

tough call though, very few players have entertained me over the years as much as hextall did. one of a kind. miss him.
I would tend to agree but most voters are probably lazy like in Hart voting forward with the most points and goals wins.

Carson was a great sniper but an odd cat, I read where he used to read in the locker room which is an unusual habit for any professional sports player, especially back then.

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12-26-2012, 09:48 PM
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Because more people voted for Luc.

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12-27-2012, 02:45 PM
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Ogie Goldthorpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toob View Post
This is a common opinion now but were people at the time they were in a time cognizant that they were in a very weak period for goalies? They seem to be aware that they were in a very deep period for offensive players.
IIRC, no one was really down on the goalies... they just felt that there were some very gifted offensive players playing the game at that time, and the dominant coaching philosophy tended to put an emphasis on that part of the game.

Serious changes in goalie technique combined with defensive coaching strategies eventually swung things the other way... but goalies of the 80's and early 90's weren't intrinsically worse than goalies from any other era... they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like baseball batters in the 1960's or pitchers in the mid to late 90's and early 00's.

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12-27-2012, 02:52 PM
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The 80s, man. Just...the 80s. Pretty excellent forwards and defensemen though!
Except lucky Luc managed to score in three separate decades on his way to almost 700.

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12-28-2012, 12:21 AM
  #17
Big Phil
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The later 1980s had more of a spike in goaltending though. Fuhr was already there and Roy and Vernon were coming into their own. Hextall had that one spike year too. I think the earlier 1980s had more of that lull in goaltending (kind of like what I think we might be seeing today with a suspicious lack of HHOF goaltending). These things go in cycles. I don't think Robitaille's 84 points were eye popping at all because we had seen much higher numbers than this in previous years. Mario had 100. Hawerchuk and Stastny both had over 100. So 84 wasn't exactly earth shattering. But 45 goals was pretty good for a rookie and when you think of it, not that far off from Bossy's once impossible 53. So I think that may have had some bearing. Plus Hextall barely lost the Calder.

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