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Old
12-28-2012, 05:20 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
No chance Nino won't be in the NHL next year with the season he's had. I expect one of Strome or Nelson to get a shot next year. My guess would be Strome, TBH, considering I thought there was a chance he would have made the team this year considering they didn't go out and bring in a center. Doubtful that they spend any money on a guy like Cullen. IMO, I think there is a pretty good chance Reinhart makes it considering how physically advanced he is, and how dominant he's been defensively this year. I would guess he'll get at least a 9-game tryout.
i'd like nino to make the team out of camp rather than give him a spot. i can see them signing cullen as an upgrade to reasoner

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12-28-2012, 09:20 AM
  #102
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The youngsters coming up and pushing the young vets, will make the 2013-2014 training camp interesting.


As for ufas...Morrow and Malholtra are both ufas.
With the cap expected to drop, they both may be cut loose by their teams. I'd like the isles to pickup Morrow. Malholtra would be my 2nd choice.

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12-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #103
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No way Joensuu suits up for this organziation in nothing other than an Isles sweater. Also, Brock Nelson's developmental curve has been unreal and he is a big boy; don't count him out. Rahkshani (see Joensuu). Other than that seems pretty solid, however I would think that Donovan would be higher on the depth chart than de Haan. I can't see him being in the teams plans over Matty D.
I personally wouldn't guarantee Joensuu anything. Maybe a 4th line spot, but if he's unhappy with that role as well as playing in the AHL, I'd move him. Same with Rakhshani.

With Nelson, I suppose he could win that 2nd line spot over Strome, I just think he'd have to dominate camp while Strome struggles. IMO Strome is the Isles' golden boy, and a Tavares minion. You generally don't see guys drafted as highly as he was, who dominate Juniors as much as he has, spend much if any time in the AHL. Not saying it would be a bad idea to give him some time there, but I just don't see it happening.

Personally I would look to use Brock as a trade chip this offseason, especially if we're lucky enough to walk away with any one of MacKinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Lindholm, Monahan or Shinkaruk. Since I don't see Nielsen going anywhere anytime soon, I expect Nelson's future here(if he has one) to be as a winger. If one of those guys are added, I fully expect him to become trade bait. With the cap dropping there should be a decent amount of names available on the trade market. Guys like Sharp and Yandle, who I've mentioned in numerous threads, would both probably be available and both would be perfect fits for this team. Just so happens that both Chicago and Phoenix could use another top-6 center. Nelson would be a great starting piece.

Other than that, you could be right about the organization favoring Donovan over deHaan. I could definitely see it now that deHaan is hurt again. That said I don't think MD has the upside that CDH has. I like Donovan as a future 2nd pairing, PP QB. I just think deHaan has McDonagh like upside, and would be a very good fit on a pairing with Hamonic. Maybe not right out of the gate, but at some point in the near future. I'm probably a bigger CDH fan than most, though.

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12-28-2012, 12:28 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
The youngsters coming up and pushing the young vets, will make the 2013-2014 training camp interesting.


As for ufas...Morrow and Malholtra are both ufas.
With the cap expected to drop, they both may be cut loose by their teams. I'd like the isles to pickup Morrow. Malholtra would be my 2nd choice.
Malhotra's eye injury has really hurt his career, he's not the same player he used to be. I wouldn't want to sign him when Cizikas can just take the 4th line center spot.

Morrow would be fine though, but he's also turning into not much more than a borderline 2nd line player. His leadership would be a huge help.

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12-28-2012, 12:39 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Malhotra's eye injury has really hurt his career, he's not the same player he used to be. I wouldn't want to sign him when Cizikas can just take the 4th line center spot.

Morrow would be fine though, but he's also turning into not much more than a borderline 2nd line player. His leadership would be a huge help.
Thinking about how the isles have blown so many late leads and their long losing streaks, I want Snow to add a veteran leader who still has something left in the tank. Someone who can lead by example and brings playoff experience.

This is why I was pissed to read Bettman's new offer, calls for a one time amnesty buyout. Cap hell for deep pocketed teams can only benefit a team like the isles.

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12-28-2012, 04:27 PM
  #106
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Thinking about how the isles have blown so many late leads and their long losing streaks, I want Snow to add a veteran leader who still has something left in the tank. Someone who can lead by example and brings playoff experience.

This is why I was pissed to read Bettman's new offer, calls for a one time amnesty buyout. Cap hell for deep pocketed teams can only benefit a team like the isles.
Now, with the rookies showing they can play is when we most need a Doug Weight or Bill Guerin. (or, as I said on another thread, an Eddie Westfall for young guys)

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12-28-2012, 05:54 PM
  #107
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I was just thinking about our lineup for next year, and thus, this thread popped into my head.......... Once again, no love for Anders Lee..... There really doesn't seem to be any room for him, nor any other rookie outside of Nino, Strome, Cizikas, Ullstrom and maybe, maybe Nelson....... BUT.... I think Lee is going to show up at camp and force his way onto the roster by playing like the beast he is..... I do believe too many rookies is a recipe for disaster, but these aren't raw, small kids. Lee will be like 23 by next year. Brock Nelson is 6'4 and has both a few years of college hockey and a full season of AHL hockey under his belt.... Strome is considered an 'elite' scorer and is two full years removed from his draft year once this season ends. Nino is having an amazing bounce back PPG season after last year's disaster..... So these aren't 'raw' rookies with no size... These are all huge kids that are all far removed from their draft years.

Moulson- Tavares- Okposo

Bailey- Strome- A. Lee

Nino- Nelson- Grabner

Martin- Cizikas- Ullstrom


Persson- Sundstrom- veteran fringe player

** Add a vet 4th liner that can ride the pine and/or shuffle back and forth to Bridgeport.., along with a fighter that rides the bench as well....

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12-28-2012, 06:07 PM
  #108
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i'll be pretty upset if Kyle Okposo is on our top line to start next year. Our future is no longer uncertain, it's time to bring in a 1st line winger for JT.

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12-28-2012, 06:23 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by petrocelli View Post
I was just thinking about our lineup for next year, and thus, this thread popped into my head.......... Once again, no love for Anders Lee..... There really doesn't seem to be any room for him, nor any other rookie outside of Nino, Strome, Cizikas, Ullstrom and maybe, maybe Nelson....... BUT.... I think Lee is going to show up at camp and force his way onto the roster by playing like the beast he is..... I do believe too many rookies is a recipe for disaster, but these aren't raw, small kids. Lee will be like 23 by next year. Brock Nelson is 6'4 and has both a few years of college hockey and a full season of AHL hockey under his belt.... Strome is considered an 'elite' scorer and is two full years removed from his draft year once this season ends. Nino is having an amazing bounce back PPG season after last year's disaster..... So these aren't 'raw' rookies with no size... These are all huge kids that are all far removed from their draft years.

Moulson- Tavares- Okposo

Bailey- Strome- A. Lee

Nino- Nelson- Grabner

Martin- Cizikas- Ullstrom


Persson- Sundstrom- veteran fringe player

** Add a vet 4th liner that can ride the pine and/or shuffle back and forth to Bridgeport.., along with a fighter that rides the bench as well....
Frans?

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12-28-2012, 06:43 PM
  #110
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Frans?
too old. "Children of the Corn" rule: Frans is to be tied to the post in the cornfield.

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12-28-2012, 10:10 PM
  #111
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Frans?
Oops.... I knew I was forgetting someone.. But with Nelson, Strome, Cizikas, Bailey, A. Lee and Ullstrom all able to play center, Nielsen is pretty expendable.

Could we package F. Nielsen with a prospect or two and maybe even our first round pick this year (as long as it's not one of the top 3 overall picks), to upgrade our defense??

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12-28-2012, 10:50 PM
  #112
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Oops.... I knew I was forgetting someone.. But with Nelson, Strome, Cizikas, Bailey, A. Lee and Ullstrom all able to play center, Nielsen is pretty expendable.

Could we package F. Nielsen with a prospect or two and maybe even our first round pick this year (as long as it's not one of the top 3 overall picks), to upgrade our defense??
Why? He's a proven player who is very very versitile and loves playing here.

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12-28-2012, 11:26 PM
  #113
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Why? He's a proven player who is very very versitile and loves playing here.
Great defense, amazing faceoff percentage, helps on offense and is solid on the PK. Yeah, send him and a first for some help on DEFENSE. (forwards don't play D....they skate around "forwarding," as the name implies?)

Sorry, no intent to offend, but implore people to think hockey and not lineup cards and NHL 2012: The Mayan Season.

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12-28-2012, 11:36 PM
  #114
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Why? He's a proven player who is very very versitile and loves playing here.
I am a fan of Frans and he definitely deserves his spot in the lineup. With that said, it is survival of the fittest and he could very well lose his spot to the likes of Strome/Nelson/MacKinnon (please happen) or to one of the other center prospects in the system. Of course, that has yet to happen and probably won't materialize for at least a season or two or three. It's not as if he's set the world ablaze for a perennial contender, we need to keep raising the bar.

In the case he is dealt, I think he would command a pretty decent return considering he's got a great contract and a lot of teams would love a good #3C. Just saying.

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12-29-2012, 12:52 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Great defense, amazing faceoff percentage, helps on offense and is solid on the PK. Yeah, send him and a first for some help on DEFENSE. (forwards don't play D....they skate around "forwarding," as the name implies?)

Sorry, no intent to offend, but implore people to think hockey and not lineup cards and NHL 2012: The Mayan Season.
Not offended by any means... it's been a looooong off-season, so we're all just having a bit of fun making our own trades and dreaming up new lineups.

I wasn't looking to trade Frans, but since I forgot him and the center position looks stacked without him, I figured I'd have a little fun in thinking up a trade. On a good team, Frans is a 3rd/4th line center-man. With that, I don't see him doing anything that Cizikas won't be doing soon enough. As a matter of fact, I think Cizikas is going to be one hell of a player. Besides his speed, Cizikas has a level of physicality that Franzie will never bring. Besides Cizikas, there are also a few other young centermen named Brock Nelson, Ryan Strome and even Anders Lee that bring some serious skill and size. So although I'm not giving him away, if Frans could somehow be packaged for a legit top-6 NHL defenseman that can hold the fort down while our prospects mature, I'd be all over it.
As a matter of fact, you just inspired me to post a thread in the trade section to see what we could get for a Nielsen package...

Btw, please don't ever use the words GREAT and AMAZING in the same sentence when describing Frans Nielsen... NEVER!!

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12-29-2012, 04:08 AM
  #116
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Not offended by any means... it's been a looooong off-season, so we're all just having a bit of fun making our own trades and dreaming up new lineups.

I wasn't looking to trade Frans, but since I forgot him and the center position looks stacked without him, I figured I'd have a little fun in thinking up a trade. On a good team, Frans is a 3rd/4th line center-man. With that, I don't see him doing anything that Cizikas won't be doing soon enough. As a matter of fact, I think Cizikas is going to be one hell of a player. Besides his speed, Cizikas has a level of physicality that Franzie will never bring. Besides Cizikas, there are also a few other young centermen named Brock Nelson, Ryan Strome and even Anders Lee that bring some serious skill and size. So although I'm not giving him away, if Frans could somehow be packaged for a legit top-6 NHL defenseman that can hold the fort down while our prospects mature, I'd be all over it.
As a matter of fact, you just inspired me to post a thread in the trade section to see what we could get for a Nielsen package...

Btw, please don't ever use the words GREAT and AMAZING in the same sentence when describing Frans Nielsen... NEVER!!
He has GREAT defensive ability and sight. I'll leave the rest to argue.

But what I always say is the top players stay and the kids have to knock them down. All the prospects we have are impressive. We had a smaller list of very impressive prospects years ago, when we had two way ace Mapletoft, sniper Kolnik, offensive defenseman Gervaise surprising in the Q and a young ace goalie on his face in Rick......so we have to remember we have it quite good. If 3 of 10 make it now, there are more guys gonna make it. (I believe we have a few definite's in our pool, but that only includes Strohm, Poulin/Nilsson and Donovan and likely Reinhart)

Right now, on an NHL level, not one of the above has more NHL game than Frans. When one does, they can have his spot, but even then, when building a team on paper, great....lotsa scorers and hot talent. I like Torrey's method where we get the right mix of scoring, passing, hitting, checking, blocking and skating throughout the roster to increase the probability of success against ALL OPPONENTS. I like Frans' D on that note. Cizikas brings a good game, great, but who replaces (and improves upon) Frans' game?

So the answer is to wait, fit, refit, judge and trade excess for improvements a la Torrey. Looking at your lineup post, I have Martin, Tavares, Moulson and Strome as cogs with Nielson. Toughness, Offense, scoring, second line offense and our shutdown defensive center. All play a pretty well rounded game but excel at one key area (save for Moulson who hits with a purse). I hope the kids listed compliment.

But there is no telling whether Anders Lee is a Mapletoft, or Ullstrom a Jorgen Jonsson or Persson (my pick for dark horse prospect) a Kolnik. Which is why I always stay patient with kids.....and hope Nino does not play one game in the NHL this year if the lockout ends tonight.

And this beats stressing about actual hockey, totally.

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12-29-2012, 06:57 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
He has GREAT defensive ability and sight. I'll leave the rest to argue.

But what I always say is the top players stay and the kids have to knock them down. All the prospects we have are impressive. We had a smaller list of very impressive prospects years ago, when we had two way ace Mapletoft, sniper Kolnik, offensive defenseman Gervaise surprising in the Q and a young ace goalie on his face in Rick......so we have to remember we have it quite good. If 3 of 10 make it now, there are more guys gonna make it. (I believe we have a few definite's in our pool, but that only includes Strohm, Poulin/Nilsson and Donovan and likely Reinhart)

Right now, on an NHL level, not one of the above has more NHL game than Frans. When one does, they can have his spot, but even then, when building a team on paper, great....lotsa scorers and hot talent. I like Torrey's method where we get the right mix of scoring, passing, hitting, checking, blocking and skating throughout the roster to increase the probability of success against ALL OPPONENTS. I like Frans' D on that note. Cizikas brings a good game, great, but who replaces (and improves upon) Frans' game?

So the answer is to wait, fit, refit, judge and trade excess for improvements a la Torrey. Looking at your lineup post, I have Martin, Tavares, Moulson and Strome as cogs with Nielson. Toughness, Offense, scoring, second line offense and our shutdown defensive center. All play a pretty well rounded game but excel at one key area (save for Moulson who hits with a purse). I hope the kids listed compliment.

But there is no telling whether Anders Lee is a Mapletoft, or Ullstrom a Jorgen Jonsson or Persson (my pick for dark horse prospect) a Kolnik. Which is why I always stay patient with kids.....and hope Nino does not play one game in the NHL this year if the lockout ends tonight.

And this beats stressing about actual hockey, totally.
Exactly this! Could not have said it any better. This lockout has been a very good thing for the Islanders (I'm actually getting sad that it is going to end soon). It has kept Islander management from messing with the system, rushing kids, and potentially trading off useful pieces at the first sign of excess.

Right now the Islander rebuild is in a very good position, however it is very fragile. Rushing just 1 or 2 high potential players and dealing away just 1 or 2 experienced NHL players with skill (Nielsen has Selke Award type defensive abilities) could set the rebuild process a long ways and put unnecessary pressure on other prospects to step up and fill potential voids.

Look, Strome is a top 6 forward and Frans is a third line center.... Strome isn't taking Frans job. Will Nelson? Maybe but thats only if he stays at Center, he did a damn good job on LW at UND and he has plenty of time, he's just a kid, long way to go before he boots Frans from his post at pivot. There are plenty of other roster players who will have to earn the right to keep their jobs, and there are enough openings right now that we don't yet have to worry about clearing room on the forward lines.

Here are your 2013-14 LOCKS at Forward
John Tavares
Matt Moulson
Michael Grabner
Kyle Okposo
Frans Nielsen
Matt Martin

THATS IT! You have 6 spots open (7 if you include an extra forward position) for guys like Nino, Bailey, Cizikas, Joensuu, Nelson, Strome, A.Lee (if he signs) Sundstrom, Ullstrom and others to battle it out. Bailey is going to have to earn it this season, when the NHL returns, otherwise I think you will see him dealt in the next off-season. And he is example #1 on why you don't rush prospects to the NHL just because they put up 100 points in Juniors as a 17 year old. There is a lot more to it than that.

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12-29-2012, 08:29 AM
  #118
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Exactly this! Could not have said it any better. This lockout has been a very good thing for the Islanders (I'm actually getting sad that it is going to end soon). It has kept Islander management from messing with the system, rushing kids, and potentially trading off useful pieces at the first sign of excess.

Right now the Islander rebuild is in a very good position, however it is very fragile. Rushing just 1 or 2 high potential players and dealing away just 1 or 2 experienced NHL players with skill (Nielsen has Selke Award type defensive abilities) could set the rebuild process a long ways and put unnecessary pressure on other prospects to step up and fill potential voids.

Look, Strome is a top 6 forward and Frans is a third line center.... Strome isn't taking Frans job. Will Nelson? Maybe but thats only if he stays at Center, he did a damn good job on LW at UND and he has plenty of time, he's just a kid, long way to go before he boots Frans from his post at pivot. There are plenty of other roster players who will have to earn the right to keep their jobs, and there are enough openings right now that we don't yet have to worry about clearing room on the forward lines.

Here are your 2013-14 LOCKS at Forward
John Tavares
Matt Moulson
Michael Grabner
Kyle Okposo
Frans Nielsen
Matt Martin

THATS IT! You have 6 spots open (7 if you include an extra forward position) for guys like Nino, Bailey, Cizikas, Joensuu, Nelson, Strome, A.Lee (if he signs) Sundstrom, Ullstrom and others to battle it out. Bailey is going to have to earn it this season, when the NHL returns, otherwise I think you will see him dealt in the next off-season. And he is example #1 on why you don't rush prospects to the NHL just because they put up 100 points in Juniors as a 17 year old. There is a lot more to it than that.

Imo Bailey, a rfa this summer,is under a lot of pressure to show the last several weeks of 2011-2012 weren't a fluke or just loosey goosey play. There are so many quality forward prospects in Bridgeport, who'll be pushing for spots with the Isles, that Bailey has to use this chance in the 2nd line lw spot to impress Snow.

Unless Cizikas and Ullstrom absolutely crap the bed in the next Isles training camp, I expect they are locks based on Snow's end of the season interview with Staples, based on Snow comments in a meet and greet with ex -STH(on the NYI website) and based on their solid play in the NHL last season.

Snow pointed out that Ullstrom's development, allowed them to waive Comeau.

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12-29-2012, 09:46 AM
  #119
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I see a lot of things about Anders Lee going straight into the lineup. Dont you think at least starting the year in the AHL would be good for his development? I know e will be 23 but he never experienced proffesional hockey before.

I am not a true Islanders supporter but I follow them because I LOVE Tavares since junior. So my guess:

Moulson-Tavares-Okposo
Bailey-Strome-Grabner
Nino-Nielsen-Nelson
Martin-Cizikas-Joensuu
Ullstrom

Defense is a big ? with Viz and Streit being free agents.

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12-29-2012, 10:31 AM
  #120
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Defense is a big ? with Viz and Streit being free agents.
Defense is a bit of a mess at this point and not as far along as the forwards.

Hamonic A.MacDonald Carkner are the three NHL defenceman under contract after this season.

I think de Haans injury threw a monkey wrench into things as I believe the plan was to have him have a full season in AHL this season and make the jump next year. Now I think he has to rehab and prove he can handle the physicality of AHL for an entire season Next year before they can think about moving up to the NHL.

Other potential blueliners: Donovan, Wishart, Ness, Katic (if he comes back), Cantin is under contract but I don't see him getting a chance.

The more I think about it, I think Griffin Reinhart has a very good chance of being in the NHL next season. I'm not saying I agree with it, but based on needs, and lack of other options, he has to be considered.

For Striet to come back he is going to have to accept a 1 or 2 year deal at less money than he is currently making, otherwise he can take a walk. He isn't the player he used to be and is only getting older.

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12-29-2012, 10:51 AM
  #121
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Streit is going nowhere and I expect him to be re-signed to a 3 year deal or so. Yeah, people look at his age and expect him to just decline at the rate of falling off a cliff. He got a pretty late start in his NHL career and has less tread than the typical 35 year old d-man in the NHL. Considering the blue line situation, why would we just cut him loose? He's a positive veteran influence on a team that is very young and relatively inexperienced. I'd be dumbfounded if Streit is not re-signed whenever all the lockout crap is over.

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12-29-2012, 12:37 PM
  #122
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I am a fan of Frans and he definitely deserves his spot in the lineup. With that said, it is survival of the fittest and he could very well lose his spot to the likes of Strome/Nelson/MacKinnon (please happen) or to one of the other center prospects in the system. Of course, that has yet to happen and probably won't materialize for at least a season or two or three. It's not as if he's set the world ablaze for a perennial contender, we need to keep raising the bar.

In the case he is dealt, I think he would command a pretty decent return considering he's got a great contract and a lot of teams would love a good #3C. Just saying.
All of those centers project to be top six forwards with the exception of Nelson who could pan out to be a third line scorer at either center or wing.

Frans is a third liner and a damn good one. Unless someone steps in and straight up out performs him, he will be staying.

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12-29-2012, 12:40 PM
  #123
LeHabsMan
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Originally Posted by InformTheMasses View Post
Defense is a bit of a mess at this point and not as far along as the forwards.

Hamonic A.MacDonald Carkner are the three NHL defenceman under contract after this season.

I think de Haans injury threw a monkey wrench into things as I believe the plan was to have him have a full season in AHL this season and make the jump next year. Now I think he has to rehab and prove he can handle the physicality of AHL for an entire season Next year before they can think about moving up to the NHL.

Other potential blueliners: Donovan, Wishart, Ness, Katic (if he comes back), Cantin is under contract but I don't see him getting a chance.

The more I think about it, I think Griffin Reinhart has a very good chance of being in the NHL next season. I'm not saying I agree with it, but based on needs, and lack of other options, he has to be considered.

For Striet to come back he is going to have to accept a 1 or 2 year deal at less money than he is currently making, otherwise he can take a walk. He isn't the player he used to be and is only getting older.
I dont see Wishart or Katic ever making an impact in the NHL. Maybe a 7th guy but thats it. Ness can be a bottom pairing guy with pp time. In the AHL, DeHaan (after recovery) and Dovovan are the only real options.

Reinhart looks good, very solid, but shouldnt be rushed. Thats for the oraganization to judge. In a few years, Reinhart, Pelech, Pokka, Mayfield, DeHaan, Hamonic, MacDonald, Kitchon and Pedan you defense will be sick. Just had to mention that.

Streit can be signed for maybe 2 years, 3 million per. Thats about it. You guys need some veteran presence in the back until all the young guys are ready.

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12-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Habs4TheCup View Post
I dont see Wishart or Katic ever making an impact in the NHL. Maybe a 7th guy but thats it. Ness can be a bottom pairing guy with pp time. In the AHL, DeHaan (after recovery) and Dovovan are the only real options.

Reinhart looks good, very solid, but shouldnt be rushed. Thats for the oraganization to judge. In a few years, Reinhart, Pelech, Pokka, Mayfield, DeHaan, Hamonic, MacDonald, Kitchon and Pedan you defense will be sick. Just had to mention that.

Streit can be signed for maybe 2 years, 3 million per. Thats about it. You guys need some veteran presence in the back until all the young guys are ready.
Streit is going to be looking for a retirement contract. He will get 3 years at least and north of 4 mil per. He put up 47 points in a disappointing year. Other than his freak injury, he has been a rock for us and is our captain.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #125
IslesRock4
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Streit is going nowhere and I expect him to be re-signed to a 3 year deal or so. Yeah, people look at his age and expect him to just decline at the rate of falling off a cliff. He got a pretty late start in his NHL career and has less tread than the typical 35 year old d-man in the NHL. Considering the blue line situation, why would we just cut him loose? He's a positive veteran influence on a team that is very young and relatively inexperienced. I'd be dumbfounded if Streit is not re-signed whenever all the lockout crap is over.
I definitely think he should be kept. But how do we get Tavares to be Captain without being a dick to Streit?

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