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CBA Negotiations III: Why Can't We All Just...Get Along?

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12-28-2012, 11:32 AM
  #776
BringBackStevens
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If they decide to keep Bryz, it has to be Briere. The fact is he is on the downside of his career and taking 6.5 of our capspace, which will be going down, and which we will need more of to retain more important players. Even if you believe he's worth his contract because of his playoff scoring (I don't), he's still a luxury on this team. Especially with 2 higher end forward prospects on the horizon

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12-28-2012, 11:37 AM
  #777
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The first person the team would have to look at for a buyout is Pronger. Bryz and Briere may perform below their respective cap hits, but Pronger is dead space; we all know Chris is never going to play an NHL game again.

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12-28-2012, 11:39 AM
  #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Word. That makes it all the more easy to choose Bryz (unless he dominates in a short season). However my guess is there is no season but the buyout amnesty will be included anyway.
I spoke possibly too soon. If we don't have an abbreviated season, then I guess we won't have the time to evaluate Bryz.

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12-28-2012, 11:42 AM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The first person the team would have to look at for a buyout is Pronger. Bryz and Briere may perform below their respective cap hits, but Pronger is dead space; we all know Chris is never going to play an NHL game again.

Yeah it's dead space but since the contract is structured till he's beyond 40...the cap hits are not all that bad..right?

Briere is kind of a luxury..true but I still don't think he gets exiled with the buyout.

Bryz has to be thought about long and hard....we just can't afford him being paid as a franchise number 1 and he continues to play mediocre/inconsistently like a Biron type cusp #1 goalie....

He'll be worse than Rathje's contract that just irritated people for years...

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12-28-2012, 11:45 AM
  #780
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It depends on whether or not we can see Bryz play again this abbreviated season. If he plays and fails, gotta buy him out. Not interested in 7 more years at that hit.

Pronger's contract limits us in the offseason, but not a big deal.

Briere's contract is a big hit, but it doesn't bother me. He'll only have one more year at a high number and the following two are cheap buy-out years. He's not even an option in my eyes.

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12-28-2012, 11:53 AM
  #781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
If they decide to keep Bryz, it has to be Briere. The fact is he is on the downside of his career and taking 6.5 of our capspace, which will be going down, and which we will need more of to retain more important players. Even if you believe he's worth his contract because of his playoff scoring (I don't), he's still a luxury on this team. Especially with 2 higher end forward prospects on the horizon
They're solid, but I wouldn't necessarily call them "high end" prospects ready to jump into the top 6. Bryz is easily my choice. Can't imagine him being here for 7 more years. I would use it before the start of 2013-2014 season regardless if a season is played this year or not.

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12-28-2012, 12:03 PM
  #782
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To think the Flyers would use a buyout on Bryzgalov is one of the dumbest things I have seen on here. Why on Earth would they do that? Ed Snider isn't going to throw that money out the window so easily. Bryz played 1 season for us and he wasn't terrible. He was bad half the season, decent a quarter of the season and spectacular a quarter of the season. He isn't the reason we got knocked out in the playoffs and his cap hit isn't anywhere near as bad as people say it is... his contract will only begin to be a problem towards the end of his career. In that case, buy out the last 1 to 2 years then... not now.

I am still in the camp of Bryz being back to "normal" whenever we start playing hockey again.

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12-28-2012, 12:04 PM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
Yeah it's dead space but since the contract is structured till he's beyond 40...the cap hits are not all that bad..right?

...

He'll be worse than Rathje's contract that just irritated people for years...
The cap hit is roughly $5M/year, about $700K smaller than the cap hit for Bryz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
Pronger's contract limits us in the offseason, but not a big deal.
Pronger's cap hit, while he's on LTIR, means that the Flyers will likely be flirting with the daily cap limit every day during the season that he remains on the active payroll.

Remember when the Flyers had to sign players to Amateur Try-Out contractsat the end of the season a couple of years ago? That was because poor cap management decisions and LTIR situations left the Flyers at the maximum daily cap limit for most of the season and they had no 'banked' cap space to re-call a player from the farm.

We're likely looking at four more years of similar results if Pronger remains, amnesty clause or not. It doesn't just affect the off-season; it would also affect any potential big moves during the season, especially at the trade deadline.

You only get cap relief for a LTIR player for amounts that the team is above the cap limit. Say the cap is at $60M and Pronger's cap hit is $5M for simplicity; if the Flyers cap hits (without Pronger) total $55M, the Flyers are counted at the $60M cap limit. If the Flyers cap hits (without Pronger) total $58M, the Flyers are counted at the $60M cap limit, due to the relief granted for Pronger's LTIR status.

It's dead space for 4 years past the 12/13 season; if the Flyers can get rid of it, they should. The Pronger situation is more akin to the Rathje situation, who spent his final years at the club on LTIR.

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12-28-2012, 12:23 PM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
The first person the team would have to look at for a buyout is Pronger. Bryz and Briere may perform below their respective cap hits, but Pronger is dead space; we all know Chris is never going to play an NHL game again.
Unless the LTIR rules change then Pronger wont be bought out. Everyone is down on Bryzgalov but whos your goalie if they buy him out after next season?
You would have to have a rock solid plan in place before you let him go and honestly who would be a viable option?
More importantly if Timonen leaves after this season we are going to have a gaping hole on the top 4. Then there is resigning Giroux,Schenn,Couturier and Read.
Probably can offer arbitration to Schenn and Couturier but Holmgren hates arbitration so that likely doesnt happen.
next years offseason is going to be fun, or not so fun depending on how you look at it.

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12-28-2012, 12:28 PM
  #785
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David Shoalts ‏@dshoalts
NHL exec: Key is Jan 5. Need a deal by then to allow for 1 wk legal paperwork, 1 wk for camp, first puck drop Jan. 19. Otherwise it's over

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12-28-2012, 12:34 PM
  #786
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...ec-27-proposal

long rundown of the new offer
Quote:
• Ten-Year Agreement (through 2021/22 season); Parties have mutual opt-out right
after 8 years.

• 50-50 Revenue Split between Clubs and Players with current HRR Accounting.

• $300 million in “Make-Whole” payments (outside the system) to compensate Players
for the reduced value of Player contracts in the early years of the new CBA.

• No contractual “roll backs” of Player Salaries.

• Clubs can operate with an effective Upper Limit of $70.2 million in 2012/13; must
come into compliance with $60 million Upper Limit for the start of the 2013/14
season.

• Each Club will be entitled to execute up to one “Compliance Buy-Out” prior to the
2013/14 season pursuant to which payments made to the Player will not be charged
against the team’s Cap, but will be charged against the Players’ Share.

• Establishment of a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that will provide maximum
permissible benefits to Players upon retirement. The Plan will be funded with
contributions out of Players’ Share and $50 million of the “Make-Whole” payment
amount of $300 million will be allocated and set aside to fund potential underfunding
liabilities of the Plan at end of CBA.

• Rules for Entry Level System, Salary Arbitration and Group 3 Unrestricted Free
Agency will remain unchanged.

• Maximum contract length of 6 years subject to a Club’s ability to re-sign its own
Player for a term of up to 7 years (provided the Player played his last full season
with the re-signing Club). In addition, year-to-year Salary variability will be limited
(up or down) to no more than 10% of the value of the first year of a multi-year SPC.

• Money paid (above a defined threshold) to Players on NHL SPCs in another
professional league (e.g., the AHL or a European league) will be charged against the
NHL team’s Cap, but not against the Players’ Share.
There's a lot more there but can't post anymore due to hfboards' rules

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12-28-2012, 12:43 PM
  #787
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60 million is going to be an issue for many teams.

EDIT: Even moreso if the NHL wants to count AHL salaries against the NHL caphit. Cant see that flying at all. Wonder how many owners would approve of that stipulation

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12-28-2012, 12:58 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
60 million is going to be an issue for many teams.

EDIT: Even moreso if the NHL wants to count AHL salaries against the NHL caphit. Cant see that flying at all. Wonder how many owners would approve of that stipulation
It says above defined threshhold, so I'm assuming it's going to be close to 500k or more to deter teams from burying players

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12-28-2012, 01:01 PM
  #789
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I'd hate to be a UFA next year with a 60 million cap coming through

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12-28-2012, 01:05 PM
  #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
It says above defined threshhold, so I'm assuming it's going to be close to 500k or more to deter teams from burying players
ahhh ok. Thankfully Matt Walker is gone after this season.(hopefully)

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12-28-2012, 01:14 PM
  #791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brozgalov View Post
To think the Flyers would use a buyout on Bryzgalov is one of the dumbest things I have seen on here. Why on Earth would they do that? Ed Snider isn't going to throw that money out the window so easily. Bryz played 1 season for us and he wasn't terrible. He was bad half the season, decent a quarter of the season and spectacular a quarter of the season. He isn't the reason we got knocked out in the playoffs and his cap hit isn't anywhere near as bad as people say it is... his contract will only begin to be a problem towards the end of his career. In that case, buy out the last 1 to 2 years then... not now.

I am still in the camp of Bryz being back to "normal" whenever we start playing hockey again.
Totally agree.
I've been reading somewhere that his stats don't even look bad right now in the KHL. If you take into account that his save% once again was at .800 or something after the first 4 games or so, he had to get great stats every since. I still think he's going to be better than pretty much anything we had in the last 20 years or so.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
I'd hate to be a UFA next year with a 60 million cap coming through
Somewhere Correy Perry is crying right now.

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12-28-2012, 02:05 PM
  #792
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so what does that 60M$ in 2013-14 do to Nashville with that hyper $$$$ Weber contract freshly signed, next season..

doesnt that basicly cripple any chance for them to field a team now ? they'll have to fill the roster with pizza delivery boys.

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12-28-2012, 02:34 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
so what does that 60M$ in 2013-14 do to Nashville with that hyper $$$$ Weber contract freshly signed, next season..

doesnt that basicly cripple any chance for them to field a team now ? they'll have to fill the roster with pizza delivery boys.
They're at 54.7m with 22 players signed and 1.8m taken up in a buyout

Next year's UFAs and RFAs :

Patric Hornqvist (RFA) Cap hit : 3.083m
Nick Spaling (RFA) Cap Hit : 1.05m
Brandon Yip (UFA) Cap hit : 750k
Matt Halischuk (RFA) Cap hit : 712.5k
Brian McGrattan (UFA) Cap hit : 600k
Jack MacLellan (RFA) Cap hit : 600k
Scott Hannan (UFA) Cap hit : 1m
Roman Josi (RFA) Cap hit : 1m
Chris Mason (UFA) Cap hit : 1.5m

Hornqvist may get a small raise
Spaling not sure
Yip is probably gone
Halischuk will probably get 1.5m-2m
McGrattan is probably gone
Maclellan no idea
Hannan is probably gone
Josi could get 2m-3m
Mason is probably gone

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12-28-2012, 02:54 PM
  #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
They're at 54.7m with 22 players signed and 1.8m taken up in a buyout

Next year's UFAs and RFAs :

Patric Hornqvist (RFA) Cap hit : 3.083m
Nick Spaling (RFA) Cap Hit : 1.05m
Brandon Yip (UFA) Cap hit : 750k
Matt Halischuk (RFA) Cap hit : 712.5k
Brian McGrattan (UFA) Cap hit : 600k
Jack MacLellan (RFA) Cap hit : 600k
Scott Hannan (UFA) Cap hit : 1m
Roman Josi (RFA) Cap hit : 1m
Chris Mason (UFA) Cap hit : 1.5m

Hornqvist may get a small raise
Spaling not sure
Yip is probably gone
Halischuk will probably get 1.5m-2m
McGrattan is probably gone
Maclellan no idea
Hannan is probably gone
Josi could get 2m-3m
Mason is probably gone
Hornqvist could get $4.5m on the market.
Spaling could get $1.5m.
If he continues to develop at the same rate Josi will get more than $3m.
Still not enough to get them in cap-trouble.

Probably a good news for the Flyers, since they won't trade Weber to a conference or division rival.

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12-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #795
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
Buying out Bryz is beyond idiotic.

Who would be our goalie?

Leighton?

Yeah, no.

Pronger would be on LTIR

I'd probably go Meszaros
It has nothing to do with Bryz on the ice. It has everything to do with his contract. It's awful.

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12-28-2012, 03:52 PM
  #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brozgalov View Post
To think the Flyers would use a buyout on Bryzgalov is one of the dumbest things I have seen on here. Why on Earth would they do that? Ed Snider isn't going to throw that money out the window so easily. Bryz played 1 season for us and he wasn't terrible. He was bad half the season, decent a quarter of the season and spectacular a quarter of the season. He isn't the reason we got knocked out in the playoffs and his cap hit isn't anywhere near as bad as people say it is... his contract will only begin to be a problem towards the end of his career. In that case, buy out the last 1 to 2 years then... not now.

I am still in the camp of Bryz being back to "normal" whenever we start playing hockey again.
You can't just "buy him out" at the end. It doesn't work that way. His contract is a problem now, it was the day it was signed.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:20 PM
  #797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
Unless the LTIR rules change then Pronger wont be bought out.
I disagree, under the terms of the recently expired CBA.

However, there are some snippets from the NHL's latest proposal that may favour the Flyers buying out someone other than Pronger, if they wanted to use an amnesty clause:
  • "Cap Advantage Recapture" formula applicable to existing long-term contracts (in excess of 6 years) for years in which Player is retired or fails/refuses to perform under his NHL SPC.
  • Flexibility-related adjustments to Payroll Range System, including (in addition to Salary/Cap Charge allocation in Player trades):

    3. Creation of Salary Cap exceptions for emergency roster situations/goaltender injuries

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12-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #798
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Briere is the one I'd buy out. Everyone talks about how clutch he is in the playoffs but in the last 2 seasons, he had one good series vs Buffalo, sucked against Boston although most of that was on Lavi's line matchups, then last season the Pittsburgh series was a huge, sloppy joke for everyone with a quick dismissal by NJ. We have to stop thinking about how he was in 2010. Last season he didn't fit in on any line.

Bryz isn't going anywhere, because of Snider's pride and lack of goaltending in the system. Pronger can be put on LTIR forever.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #799
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bob macenzie broke it down nicely. The NHL has made 3 conessions toward the players request on.

areas of movment

compliance buyout 1 player on roster before next year and wont count against cap but would on players share,

The player term limit, originally at 5 / 7 formula, is now at 6/ 7

contract variance, was at 5% now at 10% players were seeking 25 %


the above is a big improvement towards the players, the stuff originally on the table, the 300 make hole, 10 yr / 8 opt out is still on.

were awating feedback on players, but they did get 3 big items in there favor.

this might be enough to get a vote I think

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12-28-2012, 04:40 PM
  #800
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Trade Bryzgalov + pick/player to Vancouver for Luongo. The Canucks can buy out Bryzgalov and the Flyers can buy out someone else.

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