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Group B • Dec. 28 • Canada 6, Slovakia 3 • Part III

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:20 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
In fairness to Subban, in tournament play he has yet to do anything to actually lose his job. He has been decent in both his starts; his biggest test comes against the US.

I said on the Canuck board, one positive note to take from losing Lipon and Camara was the fact that Spott was (finally) forced to give MacKinnon some minutes. He and Drouin need to be given more ice-time together - they cycle the puck extremely well together and they have talent coming out of their ears.

Huberdeau needs to stop trying to stickhandle through the entire team. He has two great linemates - he needs to use them.

Scheifle was definitely deserving of the Player of the Game for Canada. Nice to see him step up and assert himself - could have sulked after taking so many lumps, but seemed to do just the opposite and motivated himself.

With respect to Murphy, it's not just Leaf fans - from my perspective, he is the weakest link on the blueline at this point. To his credit, he bounced back with some strong shifts as the game went on, but by and large he's been a huge liability out there.

Spott needs to reign his team's over-eager forecheck in. I think Camara was the victim of the result rather than the play, but Lipon's hit was just stupid. No need to try and make a statement with a lame, late, high hit in a mean-nothing game.

Overall, nice to see this group face some adversity and persevere through it. Lots of growing pains left to go for this team before it's all said and done, though.
Look at my previous posts...this team will NOT win GOLD...I do believe that the Camara hit changed this game...i also said that SOPTT is slow idiot...he is a stubborn mule.... MaCinnon needs to play more...i dont understand whats wrong with Subban!!! He needs to save some of those goals..he needs to stand on his head...he is being average...Comrie and Fucale could have done the same at the same...

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12-28-2012, 12:22 PM
  #27
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Give Jordan Binnington the next game. What harm could it do? He could outplay Subban and continue as the starter or we could just go back to Subban if he does worse.

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12-28-2012, 12:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Bure View Post
We have better , vasilievsky and Makarov .
Yeah two pretty good puck stoppers. IMO it's been a while since you have had two such goalies.

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12-28-2012, 12:26 PM
  #29
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I can't believe IIHF officials STILL determine 5 minute majors based on how long a player stays on the ice. (obv talking the Lipon hit). Just embarassing seeing a player down for so long and then pop right back up and score the Power Play goal just moments later. Stupid hit by Lipon obviously, but as always, without the milking/acting it's likely a 2 + 10 or even just 2 for roughing. Hopefully the IIHF sees that Mikus was obviously just fine, thus no injury, thus no suspension. I am getting very sick of seeing players stay down just to draw a bigger penalty. If Scheifele had've stayed down, that would have been a 5 minute kneeing penalty for certain. I am so torn, on the one hand I want Canada to start staying down to draw these major penalties, but on the other hand it just seems so gutless to me.

Boy did that Slovak kid ever get destroyed by Camara. Hate to see an injury on the play but it was a totally clean hit. The IIHF saying it wouldn't even be reviewed shows you that. Feel bad for the kid, hope he's ok.

The officiating today was pathetic. It is not nearly a high enough standard for the players on the ice. They call a penalty, Hamilton is bleeding, just 2 minutes, not 4. They call an icing while CAN is SH and apparently laugh about it. You can see RNH say to someone on the ice (obv the ref/linesman) 'That's Funny?'...turns to Huberdeau on the bench and says 'That's ****ing funny eh?' shaking his head. So these people are making horrible calls AND laughing about it. That's top notch officiating there. And then telling Camara it's a clean hit and tossing him. Just a total ***** show of officiating, not even close to a decent level which is sad for such a high level tournament with the top junior hockey talent from around the world.

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12-28-2012, 12:28 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsNobody View Post
Look at my previous posts...this team will NOT win GOLD...I do believe that the Camara hit changed this game...i also said that SOPTT is slow idiot...he is a stubborn mule.... MaCinnon needs to play more...i dont understand whats wrong with Subban!!! He needs to save some of those goals..he needs to stand on his head...he is being average...Comrie and Fucale could have done the same at the same...
I'm not necessarilly disagreeing with you - this team has a long, uphill battle if they want to win, and a lot of question marks along the way. I agree that MacKinnon needs to play more, and that Subban needs to show more big-game play. However, I would also say that Subban hasn't been bad - average would be a good description. I think (and hope) that he has more to give, and we'll see how he holds up against Team USA.

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12-28-2012, 12:47 PM
  #31
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That scheifele interview was my favourite part of the game, reminded me of this video haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngccj6Rt4tc





hopefully i did that right

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12-28-2012, 12:49 PM
  #32
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I think there are three big issues for Canada this year:

1) Too many high risk, high reward offensive defensemen. Hamilton, Rielly and Murphy are all cut from the same cloth and they give up a lot of opportunities.
2) Too little offense from the forwards. It looks like some of the secondary scorers are starting to break out, like Strome, Drouin and MacKinnon, but others like Ritchie, Lipon and McNeill have done almost nothing. At least Danault plays a great defensive game.
3) Subban. I don't know what is going on with him, but despite two wins, I think it's time to let Binnington play a game. If he holds his own against a much tougher USA team, let him run with it. If not, give the net back to Subban.

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12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Luuuongo View Post
Give Jordan Binnington the next game. What harm could it do? He could outplay Subban and continue as the starter or we could just go back to Subban if he does worse.
Well said. I hope Spott can see the green light and makes that happen. Binnington should have played in today's game. Now, let's see what he can do against USA. Subban has been average. Average will not cut it against the Russians or the Americans.

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12-28-2012, 12:54 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
I think there are three big issues for Canada this year:

1) Too many high risk, high reward offensive defensemen. Hamilton, Rielly and Murphy are all cut from the same cloth and they give up a lot of opportunities.
2) Too little offense from the forwards. It looks like some of the secondary scorers are starting to break out, like Strome, Drouin and MacKinnon, but others like Ritchie, Lipon and McNeill have done almost nothing. At least Danault plays a great defensive game.
3) Subban. I don't know what is going on with him, but despite two wins, I think it's time to let Binnington play a game. If he holds his own against a much tougher USA team, let him run with it. If not, give the net back to Subban.
The team has scored 15 goals in two games and spent a massive amount of time on the penalty kill this morning.

The forwards are doing fine. The entire group was never going to get on the score sheet in the first two games.

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12-28-2012, 01:07 PM
  #35
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The officiating today was pathetic. It is not nearly a high enough standard for the players on the ice. They call a penalty, Hamilton is bleeding, just 2 minutes, not 4. .
A. It wasn't a high sticking penalty so whether or not he was bleeding doesn't matter.
B. Even if it was a high sticking penalty, blood doesn't determine if it should be 2 or 4. That is the way it ends up being called, however the 4 minutes in the rule book is called on intent to injure.

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12-28-2012, 01:08 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
The team has scored 15 goals in two games and spent a massive amount of time on the penalty kill this morning.

The forwards are doing fine. The entire group was never going to get on the score sheet in the first two games.
15 goals against Germany and Slovakia... I don't think they'll be scoring like that against the stronger teams in the tourney.

If kids wanted to get on the scoresheet, they better have done it in these first 2 games because it only gets more difficult from here on in.

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12-28-2012, 01:10 PM
  #37
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Seeing how the goalies played for Russia and USA today, it makes me scared for our upcoming games. We need Subban to be putting out similar performances, both goalies bailed out their teams many times. Gibson was great today even though he had the losing performance.

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12-28-2012, 01:14 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by WJG View Post
I think there are three big issues for Canada this year:

1) Too many high risk, high reward offensive defensemen. Hamilton, Rielly and Murphy are all cut from the same cloth and they give up a lot of opportunities.
2) Too little offense from the forwards. It looks like some of the secondary scorers are starting to break out, like Strome, Drouin and MacKinnon, but others like Ritchie, Lipon and McNeill have done almost nothing. At least Danault plays a great defensive game.
3) Subban. I don't know what is going on with him, but despite two wins, I think it's time to let Binnington play a game. If he holds his own against a much tougher USA team, let him run with it. If not, give the net back to Subban.
None of those things are issues.

Their only issue is discipline. Too many trips and not taking into account IIHF policies on head hits.

1. The defense, while offensively oriented, haven't been taking risks - at all. They aren't required to since the offensive lines are capable of skating it up. All they have to do is push it up to the forwards.

2. Too little offense? WTF. 15 goals in two games, while spending an impressive time shorthanded. Scoring is reasonably disperse among the team with good defensive contributions. What more do you want? Every player to score?

3. Subban, while not standing on his head, has played a solid game. He can't be blamed for any of the goals against the Slovaks. Subban doesn't need to stand on his head. The team needs to stay out of the box and they will be fine.


Last edited by hototogisu: 12-28-2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: no personal attacks
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12-28-2012, 01:14 PM
  #39
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15 goals against Germany and Slovakia... I don't think they'll be scoring like that against the stronger teams in the tourney.

If kids wanted to get on the scoresheet, they better have done it in these first 2 games because it only gets more difficult from here on in.
He has a point, though. That's a lot of offence considering how much time spent short-handed. If we focused we could be deadly.

I don't think we have the coaching staff in place to allow that focus though - we'll see.

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12-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #40
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I think Canada got lucky bounces on a few of their goals. Sadly Slovakia crumbed after Reway's stupid penalty. But it was a nice dive by Scheifele to draw the call.

Also Camara's hit should've been a charging penalty, but not 5 minutes and a game. Overall I haven't been impressed with Canada and Slovakia again should not be ashamed, they can play a serious spoiler to Russia or United States.

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12-28-2012, 01:24 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite View Post
A. It wasn't a high sticking penalty so whether or not he was bleeding doesn't matter.
B. Even if it was a high sticking penalty, blood doesn't determine if it should be 2 or 4. That is the way it ends up being called, however the 4 minutes in the rule book is called on intent to injure.
You are absolutely correct with the intent to injure part, but everybody knows blood = 4 mins. Always. Except with the clowns that reffed today's game. Those guys were totally clueless all game and I really hope they do not get any assignments in the medal round.

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12-28-2012, 01:25 PM
  #42
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I certainly agree with you. Said much the same in the previous thread. Subban hasn't looked as confident as Binnington did in his game. If his confidence is lacking against the Slovaks and Germans, what's going to happen against the US and Russia? I really hope Spott gives Binnington the next game.
I don't know about his confidence having anything to do with it. He's closing out games, and the guys in front of him seem confident in him, so I think he probably has enough to draw from.

My issue is that, for all his excellent lateral agility/speed, I find he over slides a bit (dips his trailing arm and twists his trailing pad in the process) and has the slowest/laziest arms of any of the goalies that came to Team Canada's camp. Guy makes all kinds of tough stops down low, but he makes himself really small up top and is slow getting his arms in front of pucks up high when he's sliding around in his butterfly. Subban's athleticism serves him well, and keeps him in position during mad scrambles, but even the best positioning possible isn't going to stop well-placed shots.

That's the part that I think the more talented teams like Russia and the US threaten to exploit, as they have some of the better/harder shooters in the tourney and they move the puck quickly around/through the zone.

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12-28-2012, 01:26 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I think Canada got lucky bounces on a few of their goals. Sadly Slovakia crumbed after Reway's stupid penalty. But it was a nice dive by Scheifele to draw the call.

Also Camara's hit should've been a charging penalty, but not 5 minutes and a game. Overall I haven't been impressed with Canada and Slovakia again should not be ashamed, they can play a serious spoiler to Russia or United States.
It was a clean hit, that Slovakian player needs to skate with his head up. Camara glided in, and didn't jump, it was a clean hard hit, not a charge.

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12-28-2012, 01:30 PM
  #44
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Some thoughts from the game:

- Subban looked veery shaky. He gave up so many rebounds and seemed to fight the puck all game, never really being able to settle it, often glancing around to locate the puck. In his postgame comments, he says that he thinks he handled his emotions well. I'm worried that it's more he isn't really handling anything, not really caring per se if he lets in a goal or not.

- The team looks very unstructured compared to the Americans and Russians. It seems almost as if they have won based on their talent, i.e., being able to score.

- The defense is supposed to be stacked, but I really think that Ryan Murray is really being missed. With him in the lineup, the backend would be so much more stable and organized.

- JC Lipon hit was unfortunately high, and he will probably be suspended a game. Camara's hit was hard, devastating, but clean. I laughed when the Slovak player called Canada a dirty team, but said he hadn't actually seen both hits. Okay...

- Murphy looked really bad and completely lost (except on the PP with Rielly). He can't play defense 5-on-5, seems to always shoot the puck into a defender, always misses the puck as it comes around the boards, etc. Sure, he makes some nice rushes, but he needs to be able to make that pass to the right teammate instead of shooting the puck right at the goalie or losing it.

- Rielly looked very good out there, and was key in the comeback. While he was pretty solid in his own end, I am still concerned about the lack of stable, calming defensemen. If the team had Murray-Hamilton, Harrington-Rielly and Ouellet-Reinhart pairings, this team would be extremely solid on the backend.

- Team Canada needs to break up the cycle faster. Can't get pinned in their own zone all the time. That will be costly against the US or Russia.

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12-28-2012, 01:31 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
I think Canada got lucky bounces on a few of their goals. Sadly Slovakia crumbed after Reway's stupid penalty. But it was a nice dive by Scheifele to draw the call.

Also Camara's hit should've been a charging penalty, but not 5 minutes and a game. Overall I haven't been impressed with Canada and Slovakia again should not be ashamed, they can play a serious spoiler to Russia or United States.
How can you call the Camara hit a penalty? He didn't take several strides to go in and demolish the Slovakian player. If the Slovakian player wasn't stupid and kept his head down he probably doesn't get demolished! Hockey is a contact sport, and it's getting stupid how the officials are taking hits out of the game just because one player is stronger than the other. Absolutely ridiculous!

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12-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite View Post
A. It wasn't a high sticking penalty so whether or not he was bleeding doesn't matter.
B. Even if it was a high sticking penalty, blood doesn't determine if it should be 2 or 4. That is the way it ends up being called, however the 4 minutes in the rule book is called on intent to injure.
Exactly. If Hamilton doesn't go into that corner sliding on his knees, his face doesn't get rubbed into the boards by the other guy's ass. It was interference for sure, but if Hamilton's on his feet, there's not cut to his chin. I'm almost done with Hamilton, to be honest. Possibly the defenseman I'm most disappointed with (except for his stretch passes, which are hard and very accurate), and seeing him complain and throw his helmet on the ice after getting to the bench after that little nick to the chin just soured me even more. He should fit in well in Boston.

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12-28-2012, 01:35 PM
  #47
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Overall I haven't been impressed with Canada and Slovakia again should not be ashamed, they can play a serious spoiler to Russia or United States.
I watched both the Slovakia/Russia game, and now the Slovakia/Canada game, and I've been very impressed by Slovakia. In both games they were by far the less skilled team but through a workmanlike team effort managed to stay in both games - and almost pull out a win against Russia. They should be proud of their effort, I'm going to be rooting for them the rest of the tournament; I'd love to see them upset the US.

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12-28-2012, 01:35 PM
  #48
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Give Jordan Binnington the next game. What harm could it do? He could outplay Subban and continue as the starter or we could just go back to Subban if he does worse.
It could do a lot of harm. They're going up against one of the best teams in the tournament. You go with your number one guy in those games. If Binnington was going to get a game, it would have been against Germany or Slovakia.

Not really sure why people are complaining about Subban. He had no chance on most of the goals he let in in both games, and has made a ton of big saves. You can't just look at stats.

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12-28-2012, 01:36 PM
  #49
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I've seen all I need to see of Subban... I was all over Spott in the summer series for not playing him more, but it's obvious Subban is not going to get it done for us at all... We'll get down by 3 goals on Sunday before Spott makes the change, but by that time it will be too late. This tournament Canada will not medal, it will be a 1/4 exit for us this year, unless a miracle happens i.e. Spott all of sudden grows a clue.

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12-28-2012, 01:38 PM
  #50
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I've seen all I need to see of Subban... I was all over Spott in the summer series for not playing him more, but it's obvious Subban is not going to get it done for us at all... We'll get down by 3 goals on Sunday before Spott makes the change, but by that time it will be too late. This tournament Canada will not medal, it will be a 1/4 exit for us this year, unless a miracle happens i.e. Spott all of sudden grows a clue.
I have to agree. Spott is, unfortunately, the weak link this year which is especially disappointing considering this is one of the most talented teams in the past few years.

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