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12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:51 AM
  #226
Kyle93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamosko View Post
The more I see of Seth Jones the more I want him
Rielly-Phaneuf
Jones-Gardiner

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:39 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by kamosko View Post
The more I see of Seth Jones the more I want him
I can't wait to watch him put on a show today against a good Russian team. He has franchise player written all over him.

It's a shame Mackinnon has gotten this opportunity, being a 4th line player who plays under 10 minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
2) I simply pointed out the logic you use.

3)I didn't attend to refute the idea that homes was yet BPA, just the idea that it wasn't as set in stone as you said. I actually refuted your lack or argument by providing evidence why it wasn't as set in stone. Your post was written with a tone of arrogance saying that anyone who suggested barkov was BPA was essentially am idiot.I refuted it quite easily.
2) Should be edited to show: you simply pointed out the "logic" YOU think I use.

3) Who is Homes?

And it is set in stone; scouts debate this to drive up interest. Even Sidney Crosby was not set in stone for going first overall. It happens. Continue to watch the WJC, where Jones will continue to do what he's being doing all year (i.e., shine and not show any reason to doubt being a top two pick), and reach a wider audience who hasn't seen him play yet.

What is this... Arrogance? If it was arrogant, then you read it as such. And as for the idiot comment, I simply pointed out that there are a lot of idiot general managers, and so I would not be surprised if one passed up on Jones. Never did I say this towards any poster on this forum, as you are claiming.

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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
That's still deconstructing only your logic not you.that post conveyed that type of logic (or lack there of) and I called it into question. Not ad hominem
It's ad hominem because it is not my logic, nor have I done what you said, or admitted to doing what you say.

And for the record, "because you said so" is not logic.

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Old
12-28-2012, 01:17 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by kamosko View Post
The more I see of Seth Jones the more I want him
I love his offensive side. He's been very impressive jumping up into the play, and making good passes, taking good shots in the offensive zone. His skating is impressive too.

However I've been less than impressed with his defensive game. Its...been choppy. It hasn't been bad per se but it hasn't been great. More than a few giveaways in his own zone. And on the nicushkin play he just was not good. Almost watched him slate by him.

You can definitely see his potential, especially to be picked first overall, but he's still raw.

Drouin is so good offensively. He's not just a nifty winger. His skill is elite. Definitely deserving of the top 5 talk, and I could see him getting top 3 talk quite easily. Kid is too talented.

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12-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
I love his offensive side. He's been very impressive jumping up into the play, and making good passes, taking good shots in the offensive zone. His skating is impressive too.

However I've been less than impressed with his defensive game. Its...been choppy. It hasn't been bad per se but it hasn't been great. More than a few giveaways in his own zone. And on the nicushkin play he just was not good. Almost watched him slate by him.

You can definitely see his potential, especially to be picked first overall, but he's still raw.

Drouin is so good offensively. He's not just a nifty winger. His skill is elite. Definitely deserving of the top 5 talk, and I could see him getting top 3 talk quite easily. Kid is too talented.
His size, defense and physicality might be the reason why he won't be a top 3 IMO, Drouin that is.

However I just hope we end up with a top 3 preferably but top 5 hopefully so we get a solid prospect. God damn it I want multiple picks in this draft

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12-28-2012, 02:31 PM
  #230
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I will say this, I would still take Monahan over Drouin, but if anything I have seen from the WJHC I may have underrated Drouin. For those that say this tournament doesn't mean anything in evaluating talent, it does for me and for Drouin, I may have been wrong about his value. A lot closer to Mackinnon than I first thought coming into the tournament.

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12-28-2012, 02:57 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I will say this, I would still take Monahan over Drouin, but if anything I have seen from the WJHC I may have underrated Drouin. For those that say this tournament doesn't mean anything in evaluating talent, it does for me and for Drouin, I may have been wrong about his value. A lot closer to Mackinnon than I first thought coming into the tournament.
This tournament is giving people a taste on why others were high and I were touting him but he is still not near Mackinnon.

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12-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I will say this, I would still take Monahan over Drouin, but if anything I have seen from the WJHC I may have underrated Drouin. For those that say this tournament doesn't mean anything in evaluating talent, it does for me and for Drouin, I may have been wrong about his value. A lot closer to Mackinnon than I first thought coming into the tournament.
I've also been impressed with Drouin .. The kid buzzes around out there a lot, and has filthy hands

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12-28-2012, 03:11 PM
  #233
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Well there is no doubt that Douin's skill set is more suited to the WJC than Mackinnon. Drouin's hands and hockey IQ are obviously a level above almost everyone. Mackinnon on the other hand is truely more of a physical presence, hands and vision arent as great, and he is faster than he needs to be

At the NHL level however, you can clearly see why Mackinnon will be in the NHL next year and Drouin will need 1 - 2 more years. Mackinnon plays much bigger, is obviously faster, and is strong down low. Drouin suffers from the same kinda thing as Kadri, he relies on moves that may not be tranferrable to the NHL.

Both are skilled guys, Drouin is clearly the more effective WJC player right now, but Mackinnon is the better pro prospect

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12-28-2012, 03:20 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
Well there is no doubt that Douin's skill set is more suited to the WJC than Mackinnon. Drouin's hands and hockey IQ are obviously a level above almost everyone. Mackinnon on the other hand is truely more of a physical presence, hands and vision arent as great, and he is faster than he needs to be

At the NHL level however, you can clearly see why Mackinnon will be in the NHL next year and Drouin will need 1 - 2 more years. Mackinnon plays much bigger, is obviously faster, and is strong down low. Drouin suffers from the same kinda thing as Kadri, he relies on moves that may not be tranferrable to the NHL.

Both are skilled guys, Drouin is clearly the more effective WJC player right now, but Mackinnon is the better pro prospect
I don't think it's fair to say that Drouin is clearly more effective and more suited to the WJC when he's the one with second line minutes and Strome as his centre and Mackinnon's not getting much time on the fourth, and still impressing when he does get a chance.

Mackinnon's got great hands and vision too and he can score goals as well as anyone.

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12-28-2012, 03:52 PM
  #235
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My list still remains:
1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Jones
4. Drouin
5. Monahan

In terms of who I want us to pick. Drouin is really making a case for himself.

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:58 PM
  #236
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Drouin is near the end of my top 10.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:53 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
It's not the NHL, right. Different league, how many Finns that played well there have been stars in the NHL. Here is a list spanning the last 10 years of the best player voted in SM Liiga:

2002 Janne Ojanen, Tappara
2003 Antti Miettinen, HPK
2004 Timo Pärssinen, HIFK
2005 Tim Thomas, Jokerit
2006 Tony Salmelainen, HIFK
2007 Cory Murphy, HIFK
2008 Ville Leino, Jokerit
2009 Juuso Riksman, Jokerit
2010 Jori Lehterä, Tappara
2011 Ville Peltonen, HIFK
2012 Tomáš Záborský, Ässät

Can Barkov play goal, temper your ethusiasm Ernie, he may be an intriguing prospect, and he does have 28 pts in 32 games in a mens league, important to look at those names above.
Almost all lacked/lack hockey sense or other important ability that is needed in NHL, faster paced, smaller rink. None of them were 17, some 10 years older or more.

Barkov may have issues with grit and skating. Skating is pretty good, considering how fast he's grown and how he has improved over the year and even the season. I'm pretty sure it will continue to improve. At worst, he would be average skater.

Grit isn't weakness but it doesn't show up with he's play style that much. Also has to do with that they are playing in FEL.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:04 AM
  #238
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How about we keep the discussion on topic and about the next draft. Players already drafted can be discussed in the prospect board.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:35 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
This tournament is giving people a taste on why others were high and I were touting him but he is still not near Mackinnon.
Offensively drouins better but his all around game isn't close.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:13 PM
  #240
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Some thoughts early on in these WJC's, I'm leaning towards Jones at 1st overall...though still super close. Drouin has probably taken over 3rd spot from Barkov for me. I think Nichushkin should be a lock for top 10 if not for KHL/Russian factor...or a great guy to roll the dice on with a late first rounder if he tumbles on draft day. Ristolainan's stock has gone up for me as well, I could see making top 5 on some lists soon.

My current top 10

1) Jones
2) Mackinnon
3) Drouin
4) Barkov
5) Lindholm
6) Ristolainan
7) Monahan
8) Nichushkin
9) Pulock
10) Shinkaruk


Last edited by Sundinisagod: 12-29-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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Old
12-29-2012, 12:17 PM
  #241
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I still take Barkov, Monahan and Lindholm ahead of Drouin at this point. But, he's there at 6th on my list.

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12-29-2012, 02:45 PM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
I've also been impressed with Drouin .. The kid buzzes around out there a lot, and has filthy hands
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
This tournament is giving people a taste on why others were high and I were touting him but he is still not near Mackinnon.
Drouin has definitely upped his draft stock by playing well thus far, more importantly without Mackinnon.

Seth Jones and my favourite comrade Nickhuskin have shown huge glimpses of high end potential, other than making rookie mistakes, these 2 have risen in my draft rankings.

Right now, these 3 have shown they are blue chippers and I wouldn't hesitate saying they will be impact players in the NHL one day.

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12-29-2012, 02:53 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Almost all lacked/lack hockey sense or other important ability that is needed in NHL, faster paced, smaller rink. None of them were 17, some 10 years older or more.

Barkov may have issues with grit and skating. Skating is pretty good, considering how fast he's grown and how he has improved over the year and even the season. I'm pretty sure it will continue to improve. At worst, he would be average skater.

Grit isn't weakness but it doesn't show up with he's play style that much. Also has to do with that they are playing in FEL.
Thus far Barkov is doing what I almost expected of him, there are more questions to his draft ranking making him a higher risk than others.

I want to see how these players play against better opposition, one thing I notice about Gally and Grigornenko, they play well against the likes of teams like Germany but were not visible when they faced Russia or USA. Running up points totals against the likes of Germany almost doesn't count in my book. It's one thing to keep an eye on. Barkov needs to step it up against Switzerland but more importantly Sweden a truer challenge.

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12-29-2012, 03:09 PM
  #244
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My updated:

1)Jones
2)Makinnon
3)Drouin
4)Lindholm
5)Barkov
6)Monahan
7)Nuchushkin
8)Pulock
9)Ristolainen
10)Shinkaruk

Pretty similar to the one a few days ago but barkov dropped. I thought he would be more physical in the corners, but his play has been soft which really decreases his appeal to me. Has played more of a perimeter game and I rarely see him screening the goalie. Whats the point of his size if he doesnt really use it?

My only question with ristolainen is his hockey sense. Havent seen him enough to make up my mind on it.

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12-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #245
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MacKinnon is still #1 imo, but it's damn close.

You have to take into account that Jones is getting a lot of minutes and is getting a real chance to showcase himself, while MacKinnon has been playing on the 4th line, but has been pretty good in his limited opportunities.

Hopefully, MacKinnon will get more minutes against the Americans with two Team Canada forwards suspended.

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12-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
My updated:

1)Jones
2)Makinnon
3)Drouin
4)Lindholm
5)Barkov
6)Monahan
7)Nuchushkin
8)Pulock
9)Ristolainen
10)Shinkaruk

Pretty similar to the one a few days ago but barkov dropped. I thought he would be more physical in the corners, but his play has been soft which really decreases his appeal to me. Has played more of a perimeter game and I rarely see him screening the goalie. Whats the point of his size if he doesnt really use it?

My only question with ristolainen is his hockey sense. Havent seen him enough to make up my mind on it.
Your top three are the same as mine...and you have Shinkaruk low...close enough!

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12-29-2012, 04:41 PM
  #247
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Drouin has definitely upped his draft stock by playing well thus far, more importantly without Mackinnon.
Right on! Kid is a wizard.

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12-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #248
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Drouin has definitely upped his draft stock by playing well thus far, more importantly without Mackinnon.

Seth Jones and my favourite comrade Nickhuskin have shown huge glimpses of high end potential, other than making rookie mistakes, these 2 have risen in my draft rankings.

Right now, these 3 have shown they are blue chippers and I wouldn't hesitate saying they will be impact players in the NHL one day.
At the same time, he's not playing with bums. If it's not a top talent in MacKinnon it's another top talent from the forward group.

I agree though. I think if anything Drouin is, at this point, doing nothing but good for himself. Same of the others you've mentioned.

It's certainly a good year to have a top pick. Fingers crossed.

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12-30-2012, 12:16 AM
  #249
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Thus far Barkov is doing what I almost expected of him, there are more questions to his draft ranking making him a higher risk than others.

I want to see how these players play against better opposition, one thing I notice about Gally and Grigornenko, they play well against the likes of teams like Germany but were not visible when they faced Russia or USA. Running up points totals against the likes of Germany almost doesn't count in my book. It's one thing to keep an eye on. Barkov needs to step it up against Switzerland but more importantly Sweden a truer challenge.
Grigorenko line was the most dangerous line for the Russians against the Americans. Yakupov was quite invisible.

Grigorenko is obviously a play maker, but his 29 goals in 30 Q games must be more about his linemates lack of finish for him to be taking those shots.

Grigorenko with the right snipers is going to be something to watch.

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12-30-2012, 12:19 AM
  #250
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MacKinnon is still #1 imo, but it's damn close.

You have to take into account that Jones is getting a lot of minutes and is getting a real chance to showcase himself, while MacKinnon has been playing on the 4th line, but has been pretty good in his limited opportunities.

Hopefully, MacKinnon will get more minutes against the Americans with two Team Canada forwards suspended.
Seems some people think Spott has some blind spots, but hard to suggest RNH would be anything but the goto guy at center. He's a NHL player.

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