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Group B • Dec. 28 • Canada 6, Slovakia 3 • Part III

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12-28-2012, 02:16 PM
  #76
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- the main problem is behind the bench.

- next game will be determining factor in net.

- 1st line has been good esp. RNH (and his patented move in front of the net).

- Drouin is a real talent. 2nd line should be him plus ? WOW at him directing traffic on Wotherspoon's pass to Strome.

- 3rd line sb Jenner (when he's back), Danault plus ?

- Rielly was the x factor that turned the game around for Canada. Light bulb seemed to go on in his head like holy crap we're down 2 goals. Best puck mover on the back end and good defensively too. How he ended up the 7th dman is beyond me.

- Hamilton is a good puck mover but suspect otherwise...

- Murphy playing with little confidence esp. defensively. There was a sequence late in the 3rd period (when the game was already in the bag) where Murphy was virtually immobile in his own crease while the play carried on in the defensive zone.

- man does big ice expose...

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12-28-2012, 02:20 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
- the main problem is behind the bench.

- next game will be determining factor in net.

- 1st line has been good esp. RNH (and his patented move in front of the net).

- Drouin is a real talent. 2nd line should be him plus ? WOW at him directing traffic on Wotherspoon's pass to Strome.

- Rielly was the x factor that turned the game around for Canada. Light bulb seemed to go on in his head like holy crap we're down 2 goals. Best puck mover on the back end and good defensively too. How he ended up the 7th dman is beyond me.

- Hamilton is a good puck mover but suspect otherwise...

- Murphy playing with little confidence esp. defensively. There was a sequence late in the 3rd period (when the game was already in the bag) where Murphy was virtually immobile in his own crease while the play carried on in the defensive zone.
Agree with pretty much everything except for Rielly being the x factor. He was huge in the win and has 3 points but 2 were secondary assists. The goal was a nice shot off the dman. He produced which is what matters and why I always bag on Murphy but Rielly wasnt absolutely dominant all game. He was solid though and did his job, produced. Rielly isnt the 7th dman though, its been Murphy pretty much the whole way through and for good reason.

On the back end I would say Ouellet was just as good or better then Rielly today, yes I'm biased but Ouellet made a sick pass to Rattie for one goal, and then made the play for Scheifele to score as well. All while being one of the go to defensive guys.

I think the real x factor was Scheifele all game

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12-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #78
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Agree with pretty much everything except for Rielly being the x factor. He was huge in the win and has 3 points but 2 were secondary assists. The goal was a nice shot off the dman. He produced which is what matters and why I always bag on Murphy but Rielly wasnt absolutely dominant all game. He was solid though and did his job, produced. Rielly isnt the 7th dman though, its been Murphy pretty much the whole way through and for good reason.

On the back end I would say Ouellet was just as good or better then Rielly today, yes I'm biased but Ouellet made a sick pass to Rattie for one goal, and then made the play for Scheifele to score as well. All while being one of the go to defensive guys.

I think the real x factor was Scheifele all game
I think Ouellet has been just awesome. Looks like another good pick for the Wings.

But as for the bolded part - I wish they kept track of ice time because I'd say Murphy is getting more minutes than Rielly and Rielly is the 7th dman/PP specialist.

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12-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #79
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When will we hear if Lipon gets suspended or not?

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12-28-2012, 02:29 PM
  #80
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No, skating and then gliding close to full speed is a charge. In Europe and America that is a penalty.
It does appear you are right in the IIHF rule book and the NHL rule book. Just check, they reworded the "charging" penalty to read "shall mean the action of a player
who, as a result of distance travelled violently
checks an opponent. Charging may be the result
of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or
on open ice."

But as the penalty is known to most it is described as "a player not gliding ino a check, a well known rule of thumb is if the player takes more than 3 steps without gliding into the hit.

It seems like every single hit could be charging, i think they changed it for exactly this reason, to just be a catch-all for injuries.

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12-28-2012, 02:30 PM
  #81
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When will we hear if Lipon gets suspended or not?
most likely saturday afternoon

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12-28-2012, 02:30 PM
  #82
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Agree with pretty much everything except for Rielly being the x factor. He was huge in the win and has 3 points but 2 were secondary assists. The goal was a nice shot off the dman. He produced which is what matters and why I always bag on Murphy but Rielly wasnt absolutely dominant all game. He was solid though and did his job, produced. Rielly isnt the 7th dman though, its been Murphy pretty much the whole way through and for good reason.

On the back end I would say Ouellet was just as good or better then Rielly today, yes I'm biased but Ouellet made a sick pass to Rattie for one goal, and then made the play for Scheifele to score as well. All while being one of the go to defensive guys.

I think the real x factor was Scheifele all game
Rielly was good today but he still looks tentative out there. When he's comfortable he's a much different player.

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12-28-2012, 02:33 PM
  #83
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LOL I keep telling you it was a clean hit and he got a 5 and game because the player was taken off with a stretcher, is that hard to understand? What he did wrong is "charge" at full speed into him.
I don't think you understand what charging is.

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12-28-2012, 02:47 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Agree with pretty much everything except for Rielly being the x factor. He was huge in the win and has 3 points but 2 were secondary assists. The goal was a nice shot off the dman. He produced which is what matters and why I always bag on Murphy but Rielly wasnt absolutely dominant all game. He was solid though and did his job, produced. Rielly isnt the 7th dman though, its been Murphy pretty much the whole way through and for good reason.

On the back end I would say Ouellet was just as good or better then Rielly today, yes I'm biased but Ouellet made a sick pass to Rattie for one goal, and then made the play for Scheifele to score as well. All while being one of the go to defensive guys.

I think the real x factor was Scheifele all game
Both Ouellet and Scheifele stepped up for sure.

Not saying Rielly was dominant, but he made a big difference.

If you have a chance to watch that game again, look at how he almost always gets open to receive passes and moves the puck (even in tight spots) accurately and to the open man, not just dumping it in.

Rattie's goal is a good example of tight quarters - Rielly might have turned it over, made an errant pass or just dumped it in but instead made a clean pass to Ouellet.

You could also see the way RNH was passing him the puck that he had complete confidence in him.

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12-28-2012, 03:01 PM
  #85
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LOL I keep telling you it was a clean hit and he got a 5 and game because the player was taken off with a stretcher, is that hard to understand? What he did wrong is "charge" at full speed into him.
Do you know what charging is...

He took zero strides to throw the hit. He was gliding and turned twice before hitting him.

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12-28-2012, 03:22 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Gutchecktime View Post
I think Ouellet has been just awesome. Looks like another good pick for the Wings.

But as for the bolded part - I wish they kept track of ice time because I'd say Murphy is getting more minutes than Rielly and Rielly is the 7th dman/PP specialist.
See I think Murphy might get a good amount of minutes but Rielly is definitely out there at even strength and some PP time, but Murphy only plays a large chunk on the PP. How much longer do you think til Rielly and Ouellet are on the first PP?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
Both Ouellet and Scheifele stepped up for sure.

Not saying Rielly was dominant, but he made a big difference.

If you have a chance to watch that game again, look at how he almost always gets open to receive passes and moves the puck (even in tight spots) accurately and to the open man, not just dumping it in.

Rattie's goal is a good example of tight quarters - Rielly might have turned it over, made an errant pass or just dumped it in but instead made a clean pass to Ouellet.

You could also see the way RNH was passing him the puck that he had complete confidence in him.
Oh I agree he was great but X factor to me just made it sound like he completely threw the team on his back and was the reason for the win. He played great and contributed but I would still probably say Ouellet was a better dman in the game overall (partially because of Rielly helping him as well) and Scheifele was pretty damn good as well.

I guess you could say all 3 were x factors. Scheifele the best forward, Ouellet the best dman and Rielly producing offense at the most critical times.

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12-28-2012, 03:23 PM
  #87
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Just woke up after watching the game last night...

We got the win but its pretty clear we were getting a bit desperate there... Diving etc.

I don't know why Murphy is on the team at all and I was expecting a lot more out of Hubredeau.

Schiefele getting it done and RNH was staying to show up...Rielley deserves more ice.

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12-28-2012, 03:29 PM
  #88
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I'm glad to hear that Camarra isn't facing any discipline. How an on ice official can tell him that the hit was clean one minute and then confer with the other officials and he ends up getting 5 and a game is beyond me. I know the standard is different in the IIHF, but he didn't charge and he didn't explode up into the head area. I feel bad for the Slovak, but that was an actual legitimate time that I would say, keep your head up kid.

Lipon on the other hand was a careless hit. Keep your elbows and arms down. That was just stupid and way too easy to call. It was a nice sell job by Mikus, who clearly was okay since he scored on that powerplay, but JC will see at least one game for that.

Subban was fine for me. He made some big saves in the game. Some people here need to place the blame elsewhere, like Murphy and Ritchie on that first one, or the PK leaving passing lanes open. The only issue I really have right now with Malcolm is his rebounds. Against a team like USA that is all speed and jamming the net, it could result in goals against.

Murphy is so hot and cold. It's hard to trust putting him out there. As great as Ielly was today, Oullette deserves just as much praise. I'm glad he is looking like the ankle is fine. What a feed to Rattie. I like him on the powerplay because he is more likely to keep it simple than the other guys we would put out there.

Strome had a really good game too, but the trips and hooks have to go. We can't afford penalties like those anymore. The competition only gets tougher from here.

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12-28-2012, 03:32 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Nash View Post
I'm glad to hear that Camarra isn't facing any discipline. How an on ice official can tell him that the hit was clean one minute and then confer with the other officials and he ends up getting 5 and a game is beyond me. I know the standard is different in the IIHF, but he didn't charge and he didn't explode up into the head area. I feel bad for the Slovak, but that was an actual legitimate time that I would say, keep your head up kid.

Lipon on the other hand was a careless hit. Keep your elbows and arms down. That was just stupid and way too easy to call. It was a nice sell job by Mikus, who clearly was okay since he scored on that powerplay, but JC will see at least one game for that.

Subban was fine for me. He made some big saves in the game. Some people here need to place the blame elsewhere, like Murphy and Ritchie on that first one, or the PK leaving passing lanes open. The only issue I really have right now with Malcolm is his rebounds. Against a team like USA that is all speed and jamming the net, it could result in goals against.

Murphy is so hot and cold. It's hard to trust putting him out there. As great as Ielly was today, Oullette deserves just as much praise. I'm glad he is looking like the ankle is fine. What a feed to Rattie. I like him on the powerplay because he is more likely to keep it simple than the other guys we would put out there.

Strome had a really good game too, but the trips and hooks have to go. We can't afford penalties like those anymore. The competition only gets tougher from here.
I think fatigue played a factor.

Strome got major PK time today, and might have had more ice time than any forward. You could see when he took the tripping penalty that he had been double shifted during the major and was a bit gassed.

Same thing I noticed with Harrington and Wotherspoon. Both played a ton on the PK

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12-28-2012, 03:34 PM
  #90
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See I think Murphy might get a good amount of minutes but Rielly is definitely out there at even strength and some PP time, but Murphy only plays a large chunk on the PP. How much longer do you think til Rielly and Ouellet are on the first PP?
It'd be really great to see TOI stats because it seems like the exact opposite to me. And if Spott's smart, then Rielly and Ouellet should be on the first PP unit immediately. Ouellet has really impressed me.

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12-28-2012, 03:39 PM
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LOL I keep telling you it was a clean hit and he got a 5 and game because the player was taken off with a stretcher, is that hard to understand? What he did wrong is "charge" at full speed into him.
Go look up the definition of charging. Then delete all your posts. Charging is not some arbitrary "full speed" BS. There is a specific criteria by which someone is defined as charging. Once again, look up the definition, read it, interpret it, come back, then delete your posts, and post an apology to everyone on this board.



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12-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #92
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Go look up the definition of charging. Then delete all your posts. Charging is not some arbitrary "full speed" BS. There is a specific criteria by which someone is defined as charging. Once again, look up the definition, read it, interpret it, come back, then delete your posts, and post an apology to everyone on this board.


Keep whining, it's making my day. Yes he glided when he hit him, but went full speed to him which is charging. I'm sorry you don't see it.

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12-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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Go look up the definition of charging. Then delete all your posts. Charging is not some arbitrary "full speed" BS. There is a specific criteria by which someone is defined as charging. Once again, look up the definition, read it, interpret it, come back, then delete your posts, and post an apology to everyone on this board.


What exactly is that specific criteria?

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12-28-2012, 03:55 PM
  #94
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What exactly is that specific criteria?
Accelerated gliding?

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12-28-2012, 04:01 PM
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No, skating and then gliding close to full speed is a charge. In Europe and America that is a penalty.
lol
That isnt a charge

If that is a charge, may as well turn all these tournaments into ringette

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12-28-2012, 04:01 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Keep whining, it's making my day. Yes he glided when he hit him, but went full speed to him which is charging. I'm sorry you don't see it.
Uh yeah, usually players go full speed when hitting other players. What do you want him to do, a hockey stop and then jump? That'd be boarding.

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12-28-2012, 04:05 PM
  #97
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Keep whining, it's making my day. Yes he glided when he hit him, but went full speed to him which is charging. I'm sorry you don't see it.
I'm trying to look at the hit subjectively, yet even I have a hard time wrapping around the idea of Camara going at "full speed." The vid shows that he takes a few strides after entering the zone, then heads towards the boards in anticipation of the puck's trajectory. He then makes another small turn towards the player, takes a miniature stride and then bulldozes the upcoming player who had his head down. That was not top speed.

I think the clincher for me was that Camara was not even going to be assessed a penalty until it was clear that Luza was not getting up on his own strength. These refs called the smallest things on the ice, including several that benefited the Canadian team. The only time they even thought of punishing Camara was when the stretcher came out. I think you're trying to see something that isn't there.

Otherwise, you could very well be trolling.

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12-28-2012, 04:05 PM
  #98
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Keep whining, it's making my day. Yes he glided when he hit him, but went full speed to him which is charging. I'm sorry you don't see it.
How can you be full speed if you glide?

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12-28-2012, 04:08 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Keep whining, it's making my day. Yes he glided when he hit him, but went full speed to him which is charging. I'm sorry you don't see it.
Quote:
Rule 42 - Charging
42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.
Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26331

Now, this is the NHL rule for charging, and I'm a little puzzled...so charging is basically when you hit a guy too hard?

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12-28-2012, 04:09 PM
  #100
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What exactly is that specific criteria?
Skating through or jumping into a collision, skating through define as 3 or more strides in the same vector the hit is delivered. Charging is not arbirarily defined as a player going "full speed" - if that were the case, almost no player would be charged with charging, as in a hockey game, VERY RARELY is someone able to get to their full speed - the game is too dynamic for that.

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