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World Junior Championships 2013 - Discussion II

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Old
12-28-2012, 01:21 PM
  #26
Interactif
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
You are forgetting Barkov is also one of the youngest in the tourney. Not to mention we have been in this same area in the past with wellwood, carlo coliacovo and steen. Pogge being the most obvious one. Out of those guys steen has probably made the best impact as a solid two way player. Pogge is still a work in progress and not many are sure if he'll hit it. This tournament might boost up rankings but it doesn't always define the prospect. Yes I see the value of this tournament as it's a fight between nations for pride but it won't define how their careers will take off nor will it define their true potential and skill, it can only give us a little view on what's possible not probable.

You like Huberdeau as he's quite the player so it's surprising you are underplaying the skill Barkov as they are similar.
Sure there are Jimmy Waite's and Justin Pogge's, 2 goalies however, but all the great players in the NHL or the vast majority of them showed they were going to be good players in this tourney, starting off with a 16 yr old Gretzky. Let's just agree it is not a tournament to be dismissed, if anything, I have a little more respect for Drouin now after watching him these past few games. Is the tournament a slam dunk for prospects no, nothing is when it comes to scouting. But it isn't a tournament that should be dismissed. I hate it when people and I am not saying you LR, just pass it off as a nothing tournament to player evaluation.

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12-28-2012, 01:23 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
My point is just as someone can downplay the significance of the tourney, more times than not, this is the tourney most hockey people consider as the most important for hockey prospects since they are playing an intense brand of hockey against their own peer group. This tournament means a lot to all nations, and it does it can be a great predictor of talent as it has been for many great NHL players.
Great for prospects that have already been drafted yes, great for prospects to be drafted? I don't think many see this as a make-or-break thing for the younger players who are going to be drafted since they are in fact younger and being exposed on this big stage for the first time doesn't usually have big expectations .. Certainly a big tournament will help a prospects chances of improving his draft position, but a lacklustre tournament won't necessarily kill their stock.

By your logic, Mackinnon hasn't shown too much in the first game and by the sounds of it the second (I haven't watched it yet) .. So does that mean he shouldn't be drafted 1st overall? Of course not.

Higher expectation for this tourney is on already drafted players, who are older, been to it before, and are asked to carry the load and lead the team

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12-28-2012, 01:24 PM
  #28
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't think two-way all-situations uberstud hamilton is getting any Pk Time for canada.

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12-28-2012, 01:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
Great for prospects that have already been drafted yes, great for prospects to be drafted? I don't think many see this as a make-or-break thing for the younger players who are going to be drafted since they are in fact younger and being exposed on this big stage for the first time doesn't usually have big expectations .. Certainly a big tournament will help a prospects chances of improving his draft position, but a lacklustre tournament won't necessarily kill their stock.

By your logic, Mackinnon hasn't shown too much in the first game and by the sounds of it the second (I haven't watched it yet) .. So does that mean he shouldn't be drafted 1st overall? Of course not.

Higher expectation for this tourney is on already drafted players, who are older, been to it before, and are asked to carry the load and lead the team
Yep, I will go along with that partially, but special guys like 99, Tavares, Malkin, Phaneuf, Lindros, I am sure I am missing a tonne of others cemented their draft status or rep in the case of Gretzky at the World Juniors.

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12-28-2012, 01:33 PM
  #30
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Probably been noticed already but Rielly and Ouellette should be the go to offensive tandem for Team Canada. The Hamilton, Murphy experiment is over. Ouellette is a better player than I first thought. Great vision and creativeness.

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12-28-2012, 01:38 PM
  #31
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Probably been noticed already but Rielly and Ouellette should be the go to offensive tandem for Team Canada. The Hamilton, Murphy experiment is over. Ouellette is a better player than I first thought. Great vision and creativeness.
Yeah I really like Ouellette .. And then I see he's a Red Wing prospect, so we know he's going to be pretty good

Rielly's earned more minutes than he's getting, hopefully Spott gets his head out of his *** and stops playing favourites

Haven't been impressed with Hamilton, but then again I hate him (for obvious reasons )

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12-28-2012, 01:49 PM
  #32
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Today was an off day for both the Finns and Yanks. I thought both would win, and came up empty-handed.

Barkov didn't play bad, but also didn't put in his best effort. He was really deferring to pass to Teuvo most of the game, rather than taking it upon himself.

Jones, like Barkov, showed some real flashes of why he's so adored by just about everyone, but his problem today was mental mistakes. Coughing up the puck in his own zone, not making the safe play, passing across in front of his own net under pressure, and the lead feet and waving he did on the winnig goal.

One game is nothing. These two took some lumps today, and it should serve as a wake-up call for both. Re-focus, and put in a better effort.

I expect big games from both individuals, as well as their teams in the next fixture.

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12-28-2012, 01:55 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Today was an off day for both the Finns and Yanks. I thought both would win, and came up empty-handed.

Barkov didn't play bad, but also didn't put in his best effort. He was really deferring to pass to Teuvo most of the game, rather than taking it upon himself.

Jones, like Barkov, showed some real flashes of why he's so adored by just about everyone, but his problem today was mental mistakes. Coughing up the puck in his own zone, not making the safe play, passing across in front of his own net under pressure, and the lead feet and waving he did on the winnig goal.

One game is nothing. These two took some lumps today, and it should serve as a wake-up call for both. Re-focus, and put in a better effort.

I expect big games from both individuals, as well as their teams in the next fixture.
To be fair, Mackinnon was very average today, and really did nothing until the last 10 minutes. Mackinnon's problem was that he is skating around the play too much, and has to simplify a little more.

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12-28-2012, 02:00 PM
  #34
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To be fair, Mackinnon was very average today, and really did nothing until the last 10 minutes. Mackinnon's problem was that he is skating around the play too much, and has to simplify a little more.
Agreed. He's also adjusting to playing on the 4th line, which I think is complete garbage. Burying a kid with his talent on the 4th line, to play scrap minutes, should see Spott out on his ass, hailing a cab to the airport. But hey, he's the guy who knew Murphy and Hamilton would get the job done for us, right

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12-28-2012, 02:06 PM
  #35
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I won't be shocked if Lipon is suspended, but I'm going to pissed off if Camara is. Great, clean hit.

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12-28-2012, 02:07 PM
  #36
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I have a hard time believing Murphy will be much of anything in the NHL, does he remind anyone of Anton Stralman??

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12-28-2012, 02:07 PM
  #37
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Agreed, JMc. Camara's hit was clean and very nice. Lipon got his forearms and elbows up.

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12-28-2012, 03:06 PM
  #38
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I have a hard time believing Murphy will be much of anything in the NHL, does he remind anyone of Anton Stralman??
He may not even become Anton Stralman if hes not careful.

Yeah Murphy can skate forward pretty fast, but his side to side movement is bad, and I cannot count how many times he knocked into / rubbed off guys on Canada today. Im not sure what he has been doing over the past 2 years cause he is arguably a worse player now than last year

On the flip side, we are missing Ryan Murray real bad. He is a better version of Ouellet, imagine having his calm presence on the back end. If I had a choice between Ryan Murray and Nugent-Hopkins I would probably take Murray for this team

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12-28-2012, 03:29 PM
  #39
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A Murray/Rielly pairing would be Gods-like.

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12-28-2012, 03:41 PM
  #40
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Thank god Rielly had a good game , could you imagine people if he had two alright games in a row, we would never hear the end of it ...

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12-28-2012, 03:51 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
A Murray/Rielly pairing would be Gods-like.
Yup, I'm sad Murray is injured, we need a stable guy like him on the back-end.

Spott's decision-making is questionable to say the least...barely using Rielly until he took Hamilton's spot on the PP unit, giving Murphy top minutes, wasting MacKinnon and Rattie's talents on the 4th line, giving Reinhart sheltered minutes, and being unable to fire up his players overall. Really do not like this guy.

It's sad because we have so much talent on this team, but they look nothing close to '05 or '95. Brent Sutter was an amazing coach.

Subban also needs to step up a bit. None of the goals can really be blamed on him directly, but he still looks shaky. I want to be confident with our goalie for once; look at how John Gibson played for the U.S., and Russia's goalie as well. Both had outstanding games and kept their teams in the game as best they could. If he can't pull out a strong performance against USA, I think his ass should be sat and Binnington should take the reigns.

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12-28-2012, 03:51 PM
  #42
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I really don't see the hype of Dougie Hamilton.

I'm really not biased or trying to hate him he's really but lackluster.

Perhaps my expectations of him were too high... but considering he's the "#1" defenseman on that team with Murray out and that he's supposedly NHL ready... I'm not that impressed. This is including his play in the OHL in the last year or so. All I see is a Cody Franson clone.

Subban hasn't dominated or made big key saves either but I don't think he's to be blamed on most of the goals so far.

Canada will need big saves though going forward. You need top notch goaltending at a tournament like this, not just average.

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12-28-2012, 03:53 PM
  #43
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Doesn't help when to begin the game they are killing penalties. I don't see how any PP goals against are Subban's fault.. The team needs to be more disciplined if they expect to win this tournament.

Slovakia isn't even a high scoring power and they scored 3 on Canada, same with Germany. If they give this many chances to Russia or the US they are in loads of trouble.

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12-28-2012, 03:57 PM
  #44
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I really don't see the hype of Dougie Hamilton.

I'm really not biased or trying to hate him he's really but lackluster.

Perhaps my expectations of him were too high... but considering he's the "#1" defenseman on that team with Murray out and that he's supposedly NHL ready... I'm not that impressed. This is including his play in the OHL in the last year or so. All I see is a Cody Franson clone.

Subban hasn't dominated or made big key saves either but I don't think he's to be blamed on most of the goals so far.

Canada will need big saves though going forward. You need top notch goaltending at a tournament like this, not just average.
I agree, I'm not into the Hamilton hype. He's a good player and a solid prospect, but really, in international play he's been mediocre at best. He was okay at last year's WJC, sub-par at the CAN/RUS Challenge in the summer, and mediocre in this year's WJC as well.

Not impressed at all. People hype this kid like he's the second coming of Zdeno Chara.

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12-28-2012, 04:57 PM
  #45
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I agree, I'm not into the Hamilton hype. He's a good player and a solid prospect, but really, in international play he's been mediocre at best. He was okay at last year's WJC, sub-par at the CAN/RUS Challenge in the summer, and mediocre in this year's WJC as well.

Not impressed at all. People hype this kid like he's the second coming of Zdeno Chara.
I think he's play well, nothing that stands out though .. Has made good passes, played the body well, and has jumped the rush .. I'm wondering if it's a byproduct of the larger ice surface though that's misleading

He can impose himself physically on a smaller ice surface, and has shown good offensive ability .. Or not, who really knows .. I hope for our sake he's just not as good as he's hyped up to be when he gets to the NHL

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12-28-2012, 05:28 PM
  #46
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Rielly had a good game, but he can play much better. He's not given enough even-ice time so he can't find his rhythm. To optimize his effectiveness he needs to join the rush.

Also, I hate Ryan Murphy's game. His passes are SO weak, and rarely where you want them. If you watch Rielly, he puts every pass crisp, and right on the dot. When Rielly and Murphy were together, Rielly would be all lined up for the one-T and Murphy would put it off the mark by a foot every time. He's got the skills but he's got to stop being a damn puck hog and he has to clean up his game a LOT.

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12-28-2012, 05:29 PM
  #47
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Leaf fans are notoriously lenient on subpar goaltending. We've had a laundry list of excuses ready to go since the Andrew Raycroft days.

Subban might not be entirely to blame, but he's still hasn't been good enough. A sub .900 save percentage is completely unacceptable as far as i'm concerned.

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12-28-2012, 06:19 PM
  #48
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How was Biggs?

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12-28-2012, 06:35 PM
  #49
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Jones had a really bad game but his talent is undeniable and even tho hes already a good player I would still consider him somewhat "raw". He needs to get stronger as evidence on that 2nd goal as that player should have never been able to angle in on him and outmuscle him. He also looks to be trying to do a little too much and needs to seddle down and just simplify his game. I havent read any of this thread or the main boards but I already know hes prolly getting ripped and numerous people prolly saying "Jones isnt that good". Mackinnon and Barkov have been extremely quiet (although I am very intrigued with Barkov's skillset).

Trouba with a good game and his game has certainly expanded from last year. I think hes going to be alot better then many earlier predicted.

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12-28-2012, 06:36 PM
  #50
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I really don't see the hype of Dougie Hamilton.

I'm really not biased or trying to hate him he's really but lackluster.

Perhaps my expectations of him were too high... but considering he's the "#1" defenseman on that team with Murray out and that he's supposedly NHL ready... I'm not that impressed. This is including his play in the OHL in the last year or so. All I see is a Cody Franson clone.

Subban hasn't dominated or made big key saves either but I don't think he's to be blamed on most of the goals so far.

Canada will need big saves though going forward. You need top notch goaltending at a tournament like this, not just average.
When you read the hype about him, you expect to be wowed for most of the game. I haven't once seen that in the dozen or so games I've watched him play in. From that it is easy to say he sucks, but taking a step back and ignoring the hype, I still think he is a good player, just not anywhere close to what the hype is for him. As for bring NHL ready this year, personally I find that questionable, even for next year I think he has some things to work on. You never know how a player will adjust though, I am by no means saying I know this stuff 100% and that I'm a great evaluator of talent, just my thoughts.

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