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Old
12-28-2012, 02:16 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
That's not true. You can see in the 3rd highlight of the goal (1:35 in this highlights), he clearly lifts his stick before he gets to the net and then the puck bounces off Gibson out to the goal scorer. Taking the man to the boards really isn't an option when a guy has that much speed already, you have to keep him to the outside. Nichushkin made a great play to cut to the net, Jones lifted his stick and the puck essentially took alucky bounce out to the goal scorer.



Both Trochek and Reilly are complete spectators on the play. Neither pick up the puck, neither pick up the trailing man coming in.
You're arguing semantics. When the guy loses the puck it slides straight into the crease. That's a dangerous play and Jones needs to not let that happen.

Saying "The guy had too much speed" doesn't make sense either. Too much speed is however much speed it takes to beat Jones to the net. It he got blown by, that's a mistake. He either needs to adjust his gap, anticipate the move a bit better, or be faster.

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12-28-2012, 02:26 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by HockeyH3aven View Post
You're arguing semantics. When the guy loses the puck it slides straight into the crease. That's a dangerous play and Jones needs to not let that happen.

Saying "The guy had too much speed" doesn't make sense either. Too much speed is however much speed it takes to beat Jones to the net. It he got blown by, that's a mistake. He either needs to adjust his gap, anticipate the move a bit better, or be faster.
If you're accusing me of arguing semantics, are you not doing the same thing? I don't consider a guy losing the puck and it sliding to the net to be a guy carrying the puck to the front, you do. Semantics I suppose.

Regardless, good players beat other good players sometimes. That's how I see it, I don't see a glaring error from Jones. I see him pushing the player wide, that player made a good play to get to the net. Every time a good player makes a good play, it doesn't mean it's an error by the other player. There's a reason that kid that beat him is also supposed to go in the top 10 of this draft.

To me the mistake was Nichushkin blowing through four players (not just Jones) and two guys standing in front not picking up the puck or the trailing man. But the player everybody notices in the highlight is Jones so he will take the blame.

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12-28-2012, 02:27 PM
  #103
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Sometimes a really good play is just a really good play, and you should tip your hat to the person making it.

Not everything needs to have accurately assigned blame.

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12-28-2012, 03:12 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Buffalo87 View Post
If you're accusing me of arguing semantics, are you not doing the same thing? I don't consider a guy losing the puck and it sliding to the net to be a guy carrying the puck to the front, you do. Semantics I suppose.

Regardless, good players beat other good players sometimes. That's how I see it, I don't see a glaring error from Jones. I see him pushing the player wide, that player made a good play to get to the net. Every time a good player makes a good play, it doesn't mean it's an error by the other player. There's a reason that kid that beat him is also supposed to go in the top 10 of this draft.

To me the mistake was Nichushkin blowing through four players (not just Jones) and two guys standing in front not picking up the puck or the trailing man. But the player everybody notices in the highlight is Jones so he will take the blame.
You keep saying Jones pushed the Russian player wide when its fairly obvious he didn't. They meet up near the face-off dot and the Russian player blows past him and ends up in front of the net. At no point was the Russian player forced anywhere by Jones. If he had actually forced the Russian player wide he wouldnt have been in front of the net. Jones got caught flat footed.


That said the goal was due to multiple break downs and bad plays by American players. It starts and ends with Reilly, Jones' d-partner. First he does nothing but waive his stick at the Russian forward near the red line because he got caught flatfooted. That leaves him (#6) behind the play in the neutral zone and breaks down the coverage for the Americans. Then a forward (#26) just lamely waves a stick at the the Russian forward. He frankly made no attempt to stop him but his line mate (#25) does by hustling across and attempting a poke check before stumbling. THAT effort forced the Russian forward to the outside and prevents him from cutting to the middle at that point. Then it gets to Jones and the Russian forward walks around him and ends up in front of the net but loses the puck.


Then the worst of it all, Reilly doesn't hustle back like he should AND he picks no one up. Reilly was right there gliding behind the eventual goal scorer for about 10ft and did nothing. If anyone deserves a flogging its Reilly.


Last edited by joshjull: 12-28-2012 at 03:21 PM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 03:18 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Beechsack View Post
Sometimes a really good play is just a really good play, and you should tip your hat to the person making it.

Not everything needs to have accurately assigned blame.
He never should have gotten to the net or into or zone for that matter. That he did was more about the Americans making bad plays/decisions then the Russian kid making an amazing play.

Its not like the kid was doing mad dangles and deking players out left and right. He essentially skated straight from his end of the ice to the other at full speed because no American made much of an effort to stop him. Then the goal was scored due to crappy d coverage and a bad bounce not because of some amazing pass setting the goal scorer up.

You don't give a pass to players when an very preventable goal is scored.

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12-28-2012, 03:18 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You keep saying Jones pushed the Russian player wide when its fairly obvious he didn't. They meet up near the face-off dot and the Russian player blows past him and ends up in front of the net. At no point was the Russian player forced anywhere by Jones. If he had actually forced the Russian player wide he wouldnt have been in front of the net. Jones got caught flat footed.


That said the goal was due to multiple break downs and bad plays by American players. It starts and ends with Reilly, Jones' d-partner. First he does nothing but waive his stick at the Russian forward near the red line because he got caught flatfooted. That leaves him (#6) behind the play in the neutral zone and breaks down the coverage for the Americans. Then a forward (#26) just lamely waves a stick at the the Russian forward. He frankly made no attempt to stop him but his line mate (#25) does by hustling across and attempting a poke check before stumbling. THAT effort forced the Russian forward to the outside and prevents him from cutting to the middle at that point. Then it gets to Jones and the Russian forward walks around him and ends up in front of the net but losses the puck.


Then the worst of it all, Reilly doesn't hustle back like he should AND he picks no one up. Reilly was right there gliding behind the eventual goal scorer for about 10ft and did nothing. If anyone deserves a flogging its Reilly.
Yeah, the teachable moment for me with my son is that Reilly's effort was el stinko on that goal. Come back hard, every play matters.

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12-29-2012, 04:08 AM
  #107
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Man what was USA doin on the second goal. He blew past/around 3 guys and no one was able to take him off stride. That's awful defense right there.

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12-29-2012, 09:00 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshjull View Post
You keep saying Jones pushed the Russian player wide when its fairly obvious he didn't. They meet up near the face-off dot and the Russian player blows past him and ends up in front of the net. At no point was the Russian player forced anywhere by Jones. If he had actually forced the Russian player wide he wouldnt have been in front of the net. Jones got caught flat footed.


That said the goal was due to multiple break downs and bad plays by American players. It starts and ends with Reilly, Jones' d-partner. First he does nothing but waive his stick at the Russian forward near the red line because he got caught flatfooted. That leaves him (#6) behind the play in the neutral zone and breaks down the coverage for the Americans. Then a forward (#26) just lamely waves a stick at the the Russian forward. He frankly made no attempt to stop him but his line mate (#25) does by hustling across and attempting a poke check before stumbling. THAT effort forced the Russian forward to the outside and prevents him from cutting to the middle at that point. Then it gets to Jones and the Russian forward walks around him and ends up in front of the net but loses the puck.


Then the worst of it all, Reilly doesn't hustle back like he should AND he picks no one up. Reilly was right there gliding behind the eventual goal scorer for about 10ft and did nothing. If anyone deserves a flogging its Reilly.
That is essentially where I was going with this whole thing. At no point did I say that Jones wasn't beat on the play, all I was saying is that I've seen people tearing into Jones with no mention of a single other player on that play. As you said, I think Reilly is more to blame than Jones.

There's no point in arguing about it I suppose, but if a player is taken to the goal line and makes a play to cut to the net as Nichushkin did, in my eyes that's simply a very good play that good players will make.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:23 PM
  #109
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From what I hear Grigs played a solid game today again, it's good to see him consistently playing well. That saucer pass to Kucherov for the first goal, my goodness.

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12-29-2012, 02:13 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Kishire View Post
From what I hear Grigs played a solid game today again, it's good to see him consistently playing well. That saucer pass to Kucherov for the first goal, my goodness.
Missed most of the game because my stream cut out, but he had 2 primary assists. And in the bit that I got to watch, he had one stand-out play where he split the German D and drove hard straight down the middle of the slot to the net, then got hauled down from behind to draw a penalty.

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12-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Man what was USA doin on the second goal. He blew past/around 3 guys and no one was able to take him off stride. That's awful defense right there.
WOWEE HOUSLEY...............Enough said

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12-30-2012, 02:10 AM
  #112
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No sugar-coating it, Armia has been terrible in the last 2 games. Swiss up 2-0 after 1st, Armia with at least 10 turnovers

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12-30-2012, 02:16 AM
  #113
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I know I'll get hate for saying it but I think armias gonna be a bust

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12-30-2012, 02:20 AM
  #114
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No sugar-coating it, Armia has been terrible in the last 2 games. Swiss up 2-0 after 1st, Armia with at least 10 turnovers
From the first period, it's apparent that the Swiss team, as a whole, want this game more. I like what I've seen out of them this whole tournament. They should be a tough out in the crossover round, if they make it and it seems likely at this point.

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12-30-2012, 03:16 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I know I'll get hate for saying it but I think armias gonna be a bust
This will go over well.

No need to worry, he'll light it up in the relegation round and everything will be fine.

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12-30-2012, 03:21 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I know I'll get hate for saying it but I think armias gonna be a bust
Eh, we'll see. He's shown some flashes of brilliance. The talent level is certainly there. I think the key to getting him to be a productive NHLer is going to come down to coaching.

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12-30-2012, 04:18 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I know I'll get hate for saying it but I think armias gonna be a bust
Top prospect to bust in 3 days? Gotta love the WJC. Where men are men and sheep are nervous.

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12-30-2012, 04:20 AM
  #118
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To defend Armia a little, he's had quite the year, especially the last 6 months with 2 concussions and military service, which I think ended this month. So I don't think he's ruined just yet, but he needs a fresh start for next season that's for sure.

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12-30-2012, 06:15 AM
  #119
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Much of the Finland team looks like bleh.


Judging this tourney, you'd take Barkov in the 4th round.

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12-30-2012, 06:19 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Top prospect to bust in 3 days? Gotta love the WJC. Where men are men and sheep are nervous.
Well, it's just a continuation of a season that has been a disappointment so far.
Even though he's been up and down in the SM-l, he likely should have been the top Finnish player, as he has the best combination of experience and pedigree.
It's his third tournament, is their top returning scorer (third in points and second in goals last year) he's been an SM-l regular for three seasons.
Unfortunately though, I don't think most even believed he'd even be the top player coming into it (Barkov or Teräväinen were my picks).

He's just shown very little this tournament.
Everything is dangles instead of hard work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs View Post
Much of the Finland team looks like bleh.


Judging this tourney, you'd take Barkov in the 4th round.
I think he's been pretty good, just no production.
It's not a tournament for evaluating draft eligibles, though.

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12-30-2012, 09:22 AM
  #121
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8 sog and the assist on the tying goal with less than 2 minutes left. Yup, total bust.

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12-30-2012, 10:04 AM
  #122
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Toys with Canada, USA and Latvia: "Hes gonna be a star! Can't wait to see him in Grigorenko's wing!"

Bad against SUI and CZE: "ZOMG, he's a bust!"

I love you, HFBoards!

P.S. Is it too early to start hoping Seth Jones starts getting the Couturier treatment and starts tumbling down draft boards?

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12-30-2012, 10:28 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
I know I'll get hate for saying it but I think armias gonna be a bust
Curious as to why you think this? He has all the tools to be a 1st line player, I dont see him becoming much worse than a 20 goal scorer in the league.

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12-30-2012, 10:57 AM
  #124
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I didn't think McCabe was this physical. Oh, IIHF rules, you so silly...

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12-30-2012, 11:48 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Imlach a cup View Post
Top prospect to bust in 3 days? Gotta love the WJC. Where men are men and sheep are nervous.
No Ive worried about him for a long time and I just worry about how one dimensional his game is and I'm not sure he's good enough offensively to cover up for how bad he is on the other side of the puck

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