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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 3.0

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12-28-2012, 11:47 AM
  #301
Et le But
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Jones is both a safe pick(he should play NHL in 13-14 and not look out of place) and has high upside(see Pronger at his best). MacKinnon is a safe pick(he will score goals in the NHL) but doesn't have the upside to be a #1 franchise center, more of a 30+ goal 1st line RW.
Personally I think Mackinnon has pretty damn high upside, and while I wouldn't rule out him at center I agree he's likely to be better off converted to the wing. Personally I wouldn't mind if his stock falls, imagine Mackinnon playing next to Galchenyuk?

I also thought Jones was poor today, he got burned on the goal. He's still a low risk, high reward prospect but I see more Erik Johnson than Pronger so far.


Last edited by Et le But: 12-28-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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12-28-2012, 12:05 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Personally I think Mackinnon has pretty damn high upside, and while I wouldn't rule out him at center I agree he's likely to be better off converted to the wing. Personally I wouldn't mind if his stock falls, imagine Mackinnon playing next to Galchenyuk?

I also thought Jones was poor today, he got burned on the goal. He's still a low risk, high reward prospect but I see more Erik Johnson than Pronger so far.
Johnson is a bad comparison, had his career somewhat derailed by a bad knee injury.

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12-28-2012, 12:18 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No way in hell Jones drops to #3. Right now I'd put my money on him at #1 regardless of who has the pick.
Like the other posters said, it depends of the teams that are picking 1-2. I made a mock draft mixing team needs and BPA. I know Jones could go 1st overall, but in these circumstances (my order selection), I tend to believe the Flames and the Blue Jackets will really want a forward to revive their franchise.

Btw, in the WJC preview show, Bob McKenzie stated that 7 out of 10 scouts had MacKinnon 1st overall. and 3 had Jones.

I don't like to compare Jones to Pronger. It seems that the Pronger comparison always comes up at every draft when there's a big 6ft4+ defenseman that is mobile and can shoot the puck. I like to compare Jones to a possible Pietrangelo or a better version of Hamilton. That would be insane!

Don't forget that Jones is only 18 years old and his dad is 6ft8 250 lbs. He still has 1-2 years of growing left.

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12-28-2012, 12:45 PM
  #304
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Woah.

https://twitter.com/tsnjamesduthie/s...30151399469057

james duthie ‏@tsnjamesduthie
One of the more intriguing things in NHL offer is a draft lottery that would give all non-playoff teams a chance at first pick. Overdue.

Basically what the NBA has.

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12-28-2012, 12:47 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Woah.

https://twitter.com/tsnjamesduthie/s...30151399469057

james duthie ‏@tsnjamesduthie
One of the more intriguing things in NHL offer is a draft lottery that would give all non-playoff teams a chance at first pick. Overdue.

Basically what the NBA has.
**** yes.

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12-28-2012, 12:51 PM
  #306
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I assume it would be heavily weighted against them, but I still don't have a problem with it. Losing has already become viabile rebuilding strategy - Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Edmonton (TBD)...I get that it's supposed to level the playing field, but it really does promote tanking. Anything that makes simply losing a riskier proposition is okay by me.

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12-28-2012, 01:52 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I assume it would be heavily weighted against them, but I still don't have a problem with it. Losing has already become viabile rebuilding strategy - Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Edmonton (TBD)...I get that it's supposed to level the playing field, but it really does promote tanking. Anything that makes simply losing a riskier proposition is okay by me.
Of those teams, Washington was the only one who purposely tanked. Chicago was mismanaged for a long time, Pittsburgh went into bankruptcy and Edmonton made both bad decisions and had lost most of their best players to injury.

Same as last year the Habs didn't tank on purpose, we just had a bad year when lots of things went wrong.

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12-28-2012, 02:02 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Woah.

https://twitter.com/tsnjamesduthie/s...30151399469057

james duthie ‏@tsnjamesduthie
One of the more intriguing things in NHL offer is a draft lottery that would give all non-playoff teams a chance at first pick. Overdue.

Basically what the NBA has.
Awesome news!

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12-28-2012, 02:09 PM
  #309
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This wasn't a good game for Seth Jones. Scouts notice his weaknesses, slow, out of position. Valeri Nichushkin totally owned Jones on several occasions. I see Jones' lateral movement to be slow. I did compare Jones to Erik Johnson but I changed my mind after seeing this game. Jones is a bit faster than Sheldon Souray

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12-28-2012, 02:17 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenice View Post
Of those teams, Washington was the only one who purposely tanked. Chicago was mismanaged for a long time, Pittsburgh went into bankruptcy and Edmonton made both bad decisions and had lost most of their best players to injury.

Same as last year the Habs didn't tank on purpose, we just had a bad year when lots of things went wrong.
I wasn't necessarily implying that those teams intentionally tanked - but you can't deny that those teams are proof that playing poorly consistently can directly turn your franchise around. None of those teams would be where they are today if it weren't for the high draft picks they reaped as a result of being bad teams.

Therefore, logically it goes to say that losing or being in the basement for a few years can have a dramatic and positive effect on a team a few years later, in some cases (Chicago & Pittsburgh) leading directly to a Stanley Cup.

So why sweat over trying to rebuild your team via trades and free agency when you can just let the draft do it for you? If you can afford to spend a few years in the gutter, of course.

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12-28-2012, 02:31 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
This wasn't a good game for Seth Jones. Scouts notice his weaknesses, slow, out of position. Valeri Nichushkin totally owned Jones on several occasions. I see Jones' lateral movement to be slow. I did compare Jones to Erik Johnson but I changed my mind after seeing this game. Jones is a bit faster than Sheldon Souray
If you really think Seth Jones is slow, then I don't know what to tell you...but yes, he did not play well in this game. It happens.

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12-28-2012, 03:00 PM
  #312
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Nathan Beaulieu and PK Subban with Seth Jones and Jarred Tinordi would be a top four defence that would be scary.Having Emelin,Gorges and Mac Bennett as your rotation is also scary.Shades of the old Hab defences comes to mind Ludwig,Engblom and Langway trying to break intothe top four.

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12-28-2012, 03:04 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No way in hell Jones drops to #3. Right now I'd put my money on him at #1 regardless of who has the pick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post

Btw, in the WJC preview show, Bob McKenzie stated that 7 out of 10 scouts had MacKinnon 1st overall. and 3 had Jones.
If Bobby Mac is correct, I can see Jones dropping to third. Drouin has been an eye-opener for me.

I could see Jones behind MacKinnon & Drouin. Someone else mentioned it and I agree, Seth Jones' offensive capabilities are overhyped. To be honest I see Jones' as a rich man's Tinordi. Nothing to sneeze at but the kid hasn't impressed me like some of the other players at the juniors.

For my money Drouin is the #1 pick.


Last edited by onice: 12-28-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 03:14 PM
  #314
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I hate the NBA draft style, every so often you get a borderline playoff team fluke their way into the number 1 overall pick. Plus it makes tanking even more appealing, since you can have 10 teams all intentionally sucking and any one of them could end up drafting first.

The NHL lotto is much fairer IMO.

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12-28-2012, 03:23 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
If Bobby Mac is correct, I can see Jones dropping to third. Drouin has been an eye-opener for me.

I could see Jones behind MacKinnon & Drouin. Someone else mentioned it and I agree, Seth Jones' offensive capabilities are overhyped. To be honest I see Jones' as a rich man's Tinordi. Nothing to sneeze at but the kid hasn't impressed me like some of the other players at the juniors.

For my money Drouin is the #1 pick.
Have you seen my mock draft?

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12-28-2012, 03:50 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
I hate the NBA draft style, every so often you get a borderline playoff team fluke their way into the number 1 overall pick. Plus it makes tanking even more appealing, since you can have 10 teams all intentionally sucking and any one of them could end up drafting first.

The NHL lotto is much fairer IMO.
How is tanking more appealing? A team who is 15th in December but finishes the year at 9th in April will still have a great shot at a top 5 pick... it promotes competitiveness. You don't have to give up on your season in order to land an elite prospect.

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12-28-2012, 03:51 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Shutdown View Post
How is tanking more appealing? A team who is 15th in December but finishes the year at 9th in April will still have a great shot at a top 5 pick... it promotes competitiveness. You don't have to give up on your season in order to land an elite prospect.
Great shot?

Depends how they construct the lottery. It doesn't need to be equal odds for every non-playoff team.

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12-28-2012, 03:55 PM
  #318
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Great shot?

Depends how they construct the lottery. It doesn't need to be equal odds for every non-playoff team.
Fair point, but it's still better than only the bottom 5 having a chance at number 1. My point still stands, all non-playoff teams having a shot at the #1 pick doesn't promote tanking.

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12-28-2012, 03:58 PM
  #319
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I think a good system might be:

There are 14 teams that don't make the playoffs, so,

14 balls for the last place team
13 balls for the second to last place team
12 balls for the third to last place team
etc ...

This doesn't promote tanking, but it still means that on average better players will go to lesser teams.

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12-28-2012, 04:19 PM
  #320
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Have you seen my mock draft?
That's probably a pretty good representation of the order of finish,depending upon injuries,etc.If the Habs get Jones I for one will be extremely happy,start the Parade Committees early.

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12-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #321
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In the proposal they termed it ''weighted'' lottery, which seems to suggest the worst you did, the better your odds are.

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12-28-2012, 04:23 PM
  #322
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Nathan Beaulieu and PK Subban with Seth Jones and Jarred Tinordi would be a top four defence that would be scary.Having Emelin,Gorges and Mac Bennett as your rotation is also scary.Shades of the old Hab defences comes to mind Ludwig,Engblom and Langway trying to break intothe top four.
If I have that high pick I wouldn't waste it on Jones. I'll go with Mckinnon, Drouin, Barkov then Jones.

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12-28-2012, 04:29 PM
  #323
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If I have that high pick I wouldn't waste it on Jones. I'll go with Mckinnon, Drouin, Barkov then Jones.
If the Habs pick in the top four any one of those players will be great for the team's future.

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12-28-2012, 05:13 PM
  #324
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How is tanking more appealing? A team who is 15th in December but finishes the year at 9th in April will still have a great shot at a top 5 pick... it promotes competitiveness. You don't have to give up on your season in order to land an elite prospect.
In my observations NBA teams are much more prone to intentionally tanking than NHL teams. Part of it is the nature of the sport - the NBA is much more dependant on individual star players than the NHL is, but by the end of the season you often have a quarter of the league trying to tank because the worst ten teams are all "rewarded" with a shot at the number one pick. In hockey even if you don't think you can make the playoffs, teams that aren't the worst of the worst tend to fight to the end.

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12-28-2012, 05:19 PM
  #325
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In my observations NBA teams are much more prone to intentionally tanking than NHL teams. Part of it is the nature of the sport - the NBA is much more dependant on individual star players than the NHL is, but by the end of the season you often have a quarter of the league trying to tank because the worst ten teams are all "rewarded" with a shot at the number one pick. In hockey even if you don't think you can make the playoffs, teams that aren't the worst of the worst tend to fight to the end.
No truer words have ever been written here.

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