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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

EDIT: Perry, Gonchar for PIT cup run.

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:34 PM
  #26
The Waffler
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I hate Kennedy.

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #27
CaptainGiggles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Engelland and a pick then? Tough and decent 3rd pairing defenceman at a low price.

And fine if you don't want Kennedy, we're happy to keep a 45 point scorer with championship experience on our 3rd line.
We have a ton of third/fourth liners that's all. I think it's 2nd pairing d-men we need

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:36 PM
  #28
Clamshells
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the gonchar proposal is bad. really bad.

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:47 PM
  #29
JackFr
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Methot isn't unthinkable as a 2nd-pairing defenceman. The Senators' defensive prospect pool is strong enough that he makes a decent stop-gap.

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12-28-2012, 03:51 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Methot isn't unthinkable as a 2nd-pairing defenceman. The Senators' defensive prospect pool is strong enough that he makes a decent stop-gap.
Methot is absolutely unthinkable as a 2nd pairing offensive defenceman. Because that would be the singular biggest hole on the Ottawa roster after trading Gonchar.

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12-28-2012, 03:54 PM
  #31
JackFr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clamshells View Post
Methot is absolutely unthinkable as a 2nd pairing offensive defenceman. Because that would be the singular biggest hole on the Ottawa roster after trading Gonchar.
In that case it seems like Niskanen would be the natural next step, but we'd need a forward prospect coming the other way.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:08 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
In that case it seems like Niskanen would be the natural next step, but we'd need a forward prospect coming the other way.
You're still asking Ottawa to downgrade at a position they need while adding...

Ottawa is a better team by keeping Gonchar, so whats the incentive?

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12-28-2012, 04:11 PM
  #33
JackFr
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You think Niskanen is a downgrade over a 39-year old Gonchar?

The incentive is that Gonchar is old, declining, and eats up 5.5 million in cap space. Niskanen is young, getting better every year, and is a great deal at 2.3 million.

You and I both know that the Senators' best years are ahead of them. They will not be a contender this year, so a player like Niskanen is an upgrade over Gonchar.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
You think Niskanen is a downgrade over a 39-year old Gonchar?

The incentive is that Gonchar is old, declining, and eats up 5.5 million in cap space. Niskanen is young, getting better every year, and is a great deal at 2.3 million.

You and I both know that the Senators' best years are ahead of them. They will not be a contender this year, so a player like Niskanen is an upgrade over Gonchar.
To be honest, I have no idea why any Penguins fan would want to trade either Engelland or Niskanen, considering how much they cost and how well they performed last year. Particularly for Gonchar, whose ****** defense was a big part of why we lost in the playoffs the last time he was here. For example:



That's what we want to bring back to a defense that performed as poorly as it did in the playoffs last year? At the expense of a cheap young defenseman who actually played well in his own end?

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12-28-2012, 04:21 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
You think Niskanen is a downgrade over a 39-year old Gonchar?

The incentive is that Gonchar is old, declining, and eats up 5.5 million in cap space. Niskanen is young, getting better every year, and is a great deal at 2.3 million.

You and I both know that the Senators' best years are ahead of them. They will not be a contender this year, so a player like Niskanen is an upgrade over Gonchar.
Gonchar is a better offensive defenceman than Niskanen right now, yes. Otherwise you wouldn't even consider the notion of making that swap for a cup run.

Ottawa might not win the cup this year, but this isn't a team in tank mode. This team, this year, values winning more than a high draft pick.


Also saving cap space is completely irrelevant to a team with the 3rd lowest cap payroll.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:30 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I don't get the Kennedy love. Never thought he was that good.
He's not, he's a serviceable 3rd line forward, if he's in your top 6 you're in big trouble.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:32 PM
  #37
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Why would Anaheim do this trade?

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:38 PM
  #38
Sureves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
You think Niskanen is a downgrade over a 39-year old Gonchar?

The incentive is that Gonchar is old, declining, and eats up 5.5 million in cap space. Niskanen is young, getting better every year, and is a great deal at 2.3 million.

You and I both know that the Senators' best years are ahead of them. They will not be a contender this year, so a player like Niskanen is an upgrade over Gonchar.
With all do respect, you just aren't looking at it from a Sens perspective.

Our blueline is:

Karlsson Methot
Gonchar Cowen
Phillips Lundin

Does that look like a team that is looking to trade their defenseman who got 37 points last season and did well on our 2nd pairing?

I think the answer is clear.

Also, our team has 20M in cap space...we aren't interested in saving any money and his contract expires at year end anyway.

So if you want our 2nd pairing defenseman, you need to give us either an upgrade on defense - or at least a lateral move to a younger such defenseman - which I can't imagine makes any sense to Pittsburgh, or a trade that gives us a winger who provides us with a better team than we have now with Gonchar.

We aren't interested in picks or prospects since we are in win-now mode so the only way we'd take that is if you are giving us overpayment.

In other words, you almost certainly aren't getting Gonchar because he's not for sale.

EDIT: I mean seriously, imagine this blueline, especially considering Cowen is injured...

Karlsson Methot
Phillips Niskanen
Lundin Boroweicki

That's terrible.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #39
Will Hunting
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Niskanen for Gonchar? This is getting ridiculous. Why are we overpaying Gonchar this big? Niskanen is young and is under a very good contract. Heīs solid and reliable. Itīs clear that Sens fans are overrating Sarge and donīt want to make any reasonable deal. Itīs impossible to come into conclusion in this thread. Their GM maybe doesnīt think that way, so we should jest let it be and wait for the result.

I would give them MAYBE Tangradi + Strait + 3rd pick at best, no way we give up valuable assets like Niskanen to bring Gonchar back. Everytime I think about Gonchar, I have to think about that Moenīs goal and I want to cry. He was atrocious in that series and heīs getting only older. I still like him as a person and as a PP QB, but enough is enough.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:39 PM
  #40
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Wouldn't do Gonch for Kennedy

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:41 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
Disagreed, I think Kennedy is really underrated. If you use his scoring rate from last year he's gotten 45 points for the past two years, not playing with Malkin or Crosby. On last year's Ducks that makes him the 4th highest scoring player on the roster (3rd if we take out Perry). And on Anaheim he would be able to play his natural position, centre.

Removing Christensen and Dupuis from the Hossa trade, we get:

Armstrong = Kennedy + 2nd
Bennett = Esposito
1st = 1st
Kennedy has never played center as a pro. He played center in junior, but a lot of guys do before moving to wing at the next level. The Pens abundance of centers isn't why Kennedy plays wing, it's because that position suits his game. When Crosby and Staal were out this year, Dupuis was moved to center despite never playing there at any level before they tried Kennedy in that spot.

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Old
12-28-2012, 04:50 PM
  #42
JackFr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Hunting View Post
Niskanen for Gonchar? This is getting ridiculous. Why are we overpaying Gonchar this big? Niskanen is young and is under a very good contract. Heīs solid and reliable. Itīs clear that Sens fans are overrating Sarge and donīt want to make any reasonable deal. Itīs impossible to come into conclusion in this thread. Their GM maybe doesnīt think that way, so we should jest let it be and wait for the result.

I would give them MAYBE Tangradi + Strait + 3rd pick at best, no way we give up valuable assets like Niskanen to bring Gonchar back. Everytime I think about Gonchar, I have to think about that Moenīs goal and I want to cry. He was atrocious in that series and heīs getting only older. I still like him as a person and as a PP QB, but enough is enough.
As much as I detest that goal, Gonchar wouldn't be relied on nearly as heavily as he was in 2010. In 2010 he was our #1 defenceman. In 2013 he can be the powerplay QB we desperately need.

@whoever said there was no incentive on Anaheim's part to make the deal, I think Perry's gonna bolt this summer, and they could get some great assets for him.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:01 PM
  #43
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How about this: If Ottawa aren't in a playoff position by the trade deadline, then trading away Gonchar for futures should be a real consideration. Considering that Visnovsky got a 2nd for a full year (and his play is superior to Gonchar's), Ottawa would be well off to go for a trade with a team like Pittsburgh.

Niskanen and Engelland are off the table, I agree with my fellow fans, especially considering you seem unwilling to admit that their value is superior and would warrant adding to Gonchar. Obviously Ottawa only trades Gonchar at the deadline if they're out of contention.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:07 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
As much as I detest that goal, Gonchar wouldn't be relied on nearly as heavily as he was in 2010. In 2010 he was our #1 defenceman. In 2013 he can be the powerplay QB we desperately need.
The Penguins were 5th in the league on the PP last year without Crosby for 3/4 of the season, and 3rd in the playoffs. They might "like" to get a more natural PP QB than Letang, but they do not need "desperately need" one in the slightest.

We "desperately need" defensemen who can play well in their own end when it matters. Gonchar does not.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:08 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
As much as I detest that goal, Gonchar wouldn't be relied on nearly as heavily as he was in 2010. In 2010 he was our #1 defenceman. In 2013 he can be the powerplay QB we desperately need.

@whoever said there was no incentive on Anaheim's part to make the deal, I think Perry's gonna bolt this summer, and they could get some great assets for him.
Link to an article from a credible source that says Perry is leaving this coming summer. I know what you are doing because as a leafs fan I am hoping Getlzaf does the same but you and I both know there is nothing out there that states or gives any indication that Getzlaf or Perry will bolt.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
The Penguins were 5th in the league on the PP last year without Crosby for 3/4 of the season, and 3rd in the playoffs. They might "like" to get a more natural PP QB than Letang, but they do not need "desperately need" one in the slightest.

We "desperately need" defensemen who can play well in their own end when it matters. Gonchar does not.
Sullivan had alot more to do with our success on the PP than Letang. We don't need a PP QB but we do need another decent point man with either a heavy shot or ability to gain the zone or both.

As for our defensive woes. We're in a position where we're forced to see if Martin/Orpik can rebound. I still think its on our overall defensive scheme and a **** defensive mindset from our forwards. Pascal Dupuis, one of the better defensive forwards in the game, made some pretty ******* plays in that Philly series as well.


Last edited by mpp9: 12-28-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 05:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Badger Mayhew View Post
Why would Anaheim do this trade?
I believe the premise is that Perry was leaving. If that is the case, then the proposed offer is exactly what I would expect in return.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:34 PM
  #48
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That offer for Perry is incredibly insulting, 3rd liner, b/c level prospect and picks for a guy who recently won an MVP and is in his prime.

Perry isn't going anywhere anyways.

Ducks don't need wing prospects, Anaheim has about 3 atleast as good as Bennett, they're all probably better

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:37 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Sullivan had alot more to do with our success on the PP than Letang. We don't need a PP QB but we do need another decent point man with either a heavy shot or ability to gain the zone or both.

As for our defensive woes. We're in a position where we're forced to see if Martin/Orpik can rebound. I still think its on our overall defensive scheme and a **** defensive mindset from our forwards. Pascal Dupuis, one of the better defensive forwards in the game, made some pretty ******* plays in that Philly series as well.
Again, it'd be nice, but it's a luxury. Our PP has run fine with the current configuration holding the line.

Sullivan was great for the PP, but he wasn't a quarterback. He was a RH shot working the left half boards, and Gonchar can't do that.

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:44 PM
  #50
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That offer for Perry is incredibly insulting, 3rd liner, b/c level prospect and picks for a guy who recently won an MVP and is in his prime.

Perry isn't going anywhere anyways.

Ducks don't need wing prospects, Anaheim has about 3 atleast as good as Bennett, they're all probably better
Cool. I wouldn't want Shero to trade the better California winger anyway so we will gladly keep him.

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