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Three MHC's (Most Hated Coaches) All time

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Old
12-26-2012, 01:33 PM
  #26
Dark Shadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobnobs View Post
Thanks DarkShadows. I didnt know they (the players you mentioned) were so vocal about it. Intresting indeed. Ill see if I can get a hold of his biography. Although, complaints from Ray Sheppard should be taken with a frain of salt. He was a primadonna and wanted to be treated as a star. Perhaps thats why they sent him away.


Didnt Pat Quinn manage to alienate the whole Maple Leaf fan base? Not that its an accomplishment out of context but I seem to remember reading that he became disliked by the players too for beign both GMand coach and not able to focus on his duties to the team.
Well, it was written by his brother so some of it definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt. However, many of the familiar topics were also widely known and talked about at the time in media and smalltalk after Bowman's first year.

ex: Yzerman's role/trade rumors and friction between him and Bowman, Bowman trashing his defensive play(Along with everyone but Fedorov/Konstantinov's defensive play). Bowman vs Murray. Bowman and Probert/Dino's words...etc etc

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Old
12-26-2012, 03:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dark Shadows View Post
Well, it was written by his brother so some of it definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt. However, many of the familiar topics were also widely known and talked about at the time in media and smalltalk after Bowman's first year.

ex: Yzerman's role/trade rumors and friction between him and Bowman, Bowman trashing his defensive play(Along with everyone but Fedorov/Konstantinov's defensive play). Bowman vs Murray. Bowman and Probert/Dino's words...etc etc
Yes, I didnt dispute the disputes. Im disputing Ray Sheppards opinions.

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Old
12-26-2012, 03:14 PM
  #28
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One guy I don't see mentioned is Orval Tessier.

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12-26-2012, 09:10 PM
  #29
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Robbie Ftorek??

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Old
12-26-2012, 09:21 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Crosbyfan View Post
Eddie Shore was in a class of his own.
Yeah, this has to be #1.

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12-27-2012, 08:06 AM
  #31
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eddie shore was in a class of his own.
ainec

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:44 AM
  #32
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Heh. Different times aye.

Almost forgot about Tikhonov. The guy kept the Red army team in Barracks eating, sleeping and breathing Hockey for 10-11 months a year. Only allowed to go home 1-2 months of the year to see "distractions"(Wife/Kids).

Guys like him and Eddie Shore are certainly different cases

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12-28-2012, 10:47 AM
  #34
tarheelhockey
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I'd say Shore, Tikhonov and Watson.

Guys like Bowman and Keenan have their backers. You can find players who say they would do it all over again in order to win those rings. You don't see that with Phil Watson or Eddie Shore, and I don't get the sense that the Russians really savored their success under Tikhonov. All three of them were just rat-******** to the core.

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12-28-2012, 10:55 AM
  #35
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Mike Keenan would be up there for me as well. Couldn't stand him on the Blues.

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12-28-2012, 02:51 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I'd say Shore, Tikhonov and Watson.

Guys like Bowman and Keenan have their backers. You can find players who say they would do it all over again in order to win those rings. You don't see that with Phil Watson or Eddie Shore, and I don't get the sense that the Russians really savored their success under Tikhonov. All three of them were just rat-******** to the core.
Oh heck yes for the most part.
Winning is the all important goal and the players who did win with those coaches were happy as heck.....Well, except for some of the 70's habs. I assume a lot of the players who were shipped under the tenure of certain coaches were pretty peeved and never got over it though. At the time, Yzerman, Dino, Coffey,(Well, just about the whole team) etc were furious at Bowman in many playoff games in 95 for not letting them drop defense and use their offensive talent like they had been built to do when the defense was not working(He told Yzerman if he even tried against the devils, he would be benched). Dino and Coffey were shipped and Yzerman went on to see Bowman's plan come to fruition.

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12-28-2012, 03:14 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RabbinsDuck View Post
True. Players led a mutiny to get rid of him. He would make the players clean up the arena after games b/c he was too cheap to hire a cleanup crew, ha!
And he literally traded a player for 2 goalnets and was outraged that they were used and not new.

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12-28-2012, 03:30 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Imlach & Keenan for sure, but Bowman?
I can see Bowman for a variety of reasons. Steve Shutt said you hated him for 364 days a year and on the 365th day you collected your Cup ring. Guy Lafleur has confirmed in interviews that all the players would agree they hated Bowman. Scotty himself has said he wasn't the type to hold a players' hand and coddle them. Yzerman seemed to have very much a hate-hate relationship with Bowman early on, I guess until they started winning. Phil Esposito in his book claims that lashed out at Bowman in the 1976 Canada Cup after they both walked into the arena for practice because Bowman wasn't playing him much against the Russians. Esposito said something along the lines of "Don't try and pretend to be nice to me." Yeah, the man was hated but it was a good way to be hated. If he was Mr. Nice Guy he doesn't have 9 Cup rings.


Got to agree on Keenan. We all know the stories of the 1987 Canada Cup. When you irk Gretzky and Messier you know you're hated.

I get the feeling a guy like Herb Brooks could be on this list, most notably the way he acted with the 1980 US team, at least from reports.


As for coaches who were hated by the OTHER teams, would anyone else but Fred Shero be #1 here?

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12-28-2012, 04:33 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Got to agree on Keenan. We all know the stories of the 1987 Canada Cup. When you irk Gretzky and Messier you know you're hated.
Ya, the enmity too many players to name had against Keenan could prolly fill a small villages phone book. Its odd though, as Ive actually met him on numerous occasions, in bars, airports, and he's the nicest guy in the world to have a drink & a chat with. Completely down to earth, no pretensions, quite the sense of humour actually, likes to laugh. Who the heck knows beyond the players themselves what really goes on. No question he's got a brain, could definitely see him being highly manipulative, pushing buttons, likely very difficult for a 20 or early 30 something year old to deal with as most of the players life experiences are confined to a team experience, dressing room dynamics', ice time, who starts in the crease that night, the next 3-5 games, linemates etc.

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12-28-2012, 05:19 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I can see Bowman for a variety of reasons. Steve Shutt said you hated him for 364 days a year and on the 365th day you collected your Cup ring. Guy Lafleur has confirmed in interviews that all the players would agree they hated Bowman. Scotty himself has said he wasn't the type to hold a players' hand and coddle them. Yzerman seemed to have very much a hate-hate relationship with Bowman early on, I guess until they started winning. Phil Esposito in his book claims that lashed out at Bowman in the 1976 Canada Cup after they both walked into the arena for practice because Bowman wasn't playing him much against the Russians. Esposito said something along the lines of "Don't try and pretend to be nice to me." Yeah, the man was hated but it was a good way to be hated. If he was Mr. Nice Guy he doesn't have 9 Cup rings.


Got to agree on Keenan. We all know the stories of the 1987 Canada Cup. When you irk Gretzky and Messier you know you're hated.

I get the feeling a guy like Herb Brooks could be on this list, most notably the way he acted with the 1980 US team, at least from reports.


As for coaches who were hated by the OTHER teams, would anyone else but Fred Shero be #1 here?
I know that Jacques Lemaire, Yvan Cournoyer, and Mario Tremblay absolutely despised Bowman from the Dynasty Habs years. There was a lot of noise made about how Lemaire wanted to stick it to Bowman when the Devils beat the Red Wings in the finals.

Apparently Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh and Sergei Fedorov in Detroit couldn't stand Bowman either.

You can't argue Bowman's results though: The man won championships.

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12-28-2012, 05:27 PM
  #41
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Anyone mention Michel Bergeron yet?

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:31 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
I know that Jacques Lemaire, Yvan Cournoyer, and Mario Tremblay absolutely despised Bowman from the Dynasty Habs years. There was a lot of noise made about how Lemaire wanted to stick it to Bowman when the Devils beat the Red Wings in the finals.

Apparently Mario Lemieux in Pittsburgh and Sergei Fedorov in Detroit couldn't stand Bowman either.

You can't argue Bowman's results though: The man won championships.
Never thought of that, but yeah Lemaire and Bowman did faceoff in 1995. Can we agree that Lemaire did "stick it" to Bowman? I think so. I really wonder what it was that made him like that? Players after their careers are over speak well of him. But while they play for him they can't stand him. Maybe he is distant with his players or plays mind games with them that just never get reported. I guess we'd have to be in a locker room to find out. Bowman has always struck me as a guy that would hold private issues behind closed doors and never talk to the press about it so we may never know

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12-28-2012, 05:43 PM
  #43
Morgoth Bauglir
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Never thought of that, but yeah Lemaire and Bowman did faceoff in 1995. Can we agree that Lemaire did "stick it" to Bowman? I think so. I really wonder what it was that made him like that? Players after their careers are over speak well of him. But while they play for him they can't stand him. Maybe he is distant with his players or plays mind games with them that just never get reported. I guess we'd have to be in a locker room to find out. Bowman has always struck me as a guy that would hold private issues behind closed doors and never talk to the press about it so we may never know
In the Journal de Montreal back in '95 Cournoyer said about Bowman "What I disliked most about him was his lack of honesty. I have no intention of speaking to him before, during or after the game, but if we speak to him, I doubt it'll be to wish him Merry Christmas!"

In the same issue, Tremblay said "He was constantly on my case. He used to ask what I was doing on the team; he said I couldn't skate or shoot. He was constantly threatening to send me back to the minors.....I'd go home, crying and enraged. Because of him, I almost gave it all up."

Those were quoted in "Winning, Nothing Else".....I wasn't able to get the original Journal de Montreal article via Google search, though that's not entirely surprising given that nearly twenty years have past.

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12-28-2012, 05:53 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57special View Post
Mike Keenan
Scotty Bowman
Punch Imlach
Keened and Implach were hated and not respected by most of their players
Bowman was hated but respected by his players.
Bowman is like Sather in the way he played mind games with their players to make sure they did not rest on yesterdays stat page.

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12-28-2012, 05:57 PM
  #45
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Great info about Tremblay and Yvon I did not know it was as deep as you had described.I know that Lafleur scored 3 hat tricks in his rookie year playing on third and fourth line as a centerman and he was not happy about limited ice time.Claude Ruel was the practice coach along with Bowman and Claude would help the youngsters.Scotty did not get along with Brett Hull and Paul Coffey among others in his later coaching job.As mentioned in a previous post by someone who mentioned Rick Martin blaming Bowman for ending his career because Bowman forced him to play hurt.But saying this I bet most players would have loved to play for him if they had a chance to win Stanley Cup.

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12-28-2012, 06:02 PM
  #46
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In terms of hockey history,...

1. Mike Keenan
2. Viktor Tikhonov
3. Punch Imlach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
This thread definitely needs more Tikhonov.
Indeed!


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Old
12-28-2012, 06:38 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
In the Journal de Montreal back in '95 Cournoyer said about Bowman "What I disliked most about him was his lack of honesty. I have no intention of speaking to him before, during or after the game, but if we speak to him, I doubt it'll be to wish him Merry Christmas!"

In the same issue, Tremblay said "He was constantly on my case. He used to ask what I was doing on the team; he said I couldn't skate or shoot. He was constantly threatening to send me back to the minors.....I'd go home, crying and enraged. Because of him, I almost gave it all up."

Those were quoted in "Winning, Nothing Else".....I wasn't able to get the original Journal de Montreal article via Google search, though that's not entirely surprising given that nearly twenty years have past.
Wow, didn't know that. Cournoyer would have been the assistant coach for Montreal at that time, and Tremblay was the head coach of course, so they didn't hold back even 20 years after the fact. You hear that a lot about Bowman and coming from someone like Cournoyer it is telling. I just didn't think players held a grudge against him after all these years. Bowman for some reason does get this free pass for being infallible for some reason so it is good to know he isn't at all perfect.

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12-28-2012, 06:43 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Wow, didn't know that. Cournoyer would have been the assistant coach for Montreal at that time, and Tremblay was the head coach of course, so they didn't hold back even 20 years after the fact. You hear that a lot about Bowman and coming from someone like Cournoyer it is telling. I just didn't think players held a grudge against him after all these years. Bowman for some reason does get this free pass for being infallible for some reason so it is good to know he isn't at all perfect.
Not perfect, he just wins. The price he makes his players pay for those wins could be questioned.

For the record, those interviews were the spark that led Bowman to run it up on the Habs.....and inadvertently chase Patrick Roy to Colorado where he'd bite Bowman on the azz in the playoffs.

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Old
12-28-2012, 06:43 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Wow, didn't know that. Cournoyer would have been the assistant coach for Montreal at that time, and Tremblay was the head coach of course, so they didn't hold back even 20 years after the fact. You hear that a lot about Bowman and coming from someone like Cournoyer it is telling. I just didn't think players held a grudge against him after all these years. Bowman for some reason does get this free pass for being infallible for some reason so it is good to know he isn't at all perfect.
Shutty was an assistant for the Habs at the time too, and Rejean Houle was the GM.

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Old
12-28-2012, 06:48 PM
  #50
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Not perfect, he just wins. The price he makes his players pay for those wins could be questioned.

For the record, those interviews were the spark that led Bowman to run it up on the Habs.....and inadvertently chase Patrick Roy to Colorado where he'd bite Bowman on the azz in the playoffs.
Kind of a double negative there. Everybody loses.........except Patrick

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