HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Mixed Martial Arts
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Mixed Martial Arts UFC, Bellator, HDNet Fights, WSOF, MFC, KOTC, One FC, and others

UFC 155: Dos Santos vs Velasquez II

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-28-2012, 02:41 PM
  #76
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,937
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
JDS is too strong.

As I mentioned, the take downs will come after he gets JDS hurt. In that sense, he's not relying on his wrestling. Cain isn't going to try to pull off his best Chael Sonnen impression in this fight. He's going to try to do what he always does - throw bombs, hurt the guy, GnP for the finish.
Cain's bread and butter is GNP and his endurance, not his stand-up. If Cain's plan is to only utilize his wrestling after he's already hurt JDS on his feet, then this fight is likely going to end in similar fashion as the first fight. Cain has good boxing, but he's not on the same level as JDS. If Cain wants to win this fight he needs to be aggressive with his boxing and takedown attempts to keep JDS guessing. If he intends to stand and trade with JDS in hopes of "hurting" him in order to get the takedown, then he hasn't learned anything. Watching/reading his interviews this doesn't appear to be his intention.


Last edited by Peter Griffin: 12-28-2012 at 02:48 PM.
Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 02:45 PM
  #77
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
Has Cain ever been in a boring fight? He has a 10-1 record (8-1 in the UFC) and has finished his opponent nine times. Including seven first round finishes.

If he gets JDS to the ground and is able to keep him there, it definitely won't be a boring fight. He's not going to sit in JDS' guard or take his time and try to work a submission. He'll start dropping bombs like he always does.
Not trying to imply Cain is boring. He is anything but that. Im a big fan. My thought was trying to figure out how Cain would be able to beat JDS. I think those who are counting on Cain being able to take JDS down and gn'p him are not very likely to happen based on past history.

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 02:51 PM
  #78
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Cain's bread and butter is GNP and his endurance, not his stand-up. If Cain's plan is to only utilize his wrestling after he's already hurt JDS on his feet, then this fight is likely going to end in similar fashion as the first fight.
Hopefully thats not his plan. But that's all he's going to be able to do.

Quote:
Cain has good boxing, but he's not on the same level as JDS. If Cain wants to win this fight he needs to be aggressive with his boxing and takedown attempts to keep JDS guessing. If he intends to stand and trade with JDS in hopes of "hurting" him in order to get the takedown, then he hasn't learned anything. Watching/reading his interviews this doesn't appear to be his intention.
I believe he will use aggressive boxing in order to eventually get to his favorite way to end the fight, sure.
But where do people come up with the notion that he's just going to be able to walk through enough JDS bombs to score a takedown. This isnt Benson wrestling down Diaz. We saw Cains pathetic attempt at a takedown last fight... he grabbed JDS uninjured leg, and still couldnt pull the guy down, or even get him off balance in the slightest.
JDS is stronger, a better boxer, and an overall more well-rounded MMAer. Cain is going to have to get in and out, and hopefully tag Cigano hard enough to be able to get the takedown. Going in with a focus on wrestling will have him laying flat on the mat after eating an uppercut. Even if Cain gets a clean takedown w/o JDS being hurt, I'm not sure he can hold him down long enough.

jw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 05:39 PM
  #79
DaaaaB's
Registered User
 
DaaaaB's's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
So, instead, we need to rely on Cain's TD stats against Rothwell, Kongo and Jeremiah Constant?

Or are you just mad that he kept giving stats you wanted, but you dont agree with them?
Why would we use Cain's td stats? IATL claims Cain can't take JDS down (based on one half-hearted attempt). I'm saying that's unproven. What does Cain's td stats have to do with it?

His stats are pointless. If you can't see that, that's your problem. Any true mma fan should know they mean next to nothing. If you think Frank Mir and Roy Nelson not being able to takedown JDS means Cain can't then I don't know what to tell you.

Your last sentence makes no sense but nice try.

DaaaaB's is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #80
ZenMaster*
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 555
vCash: 500
Junior Dos Santos will this one. His boxing is impeccable and has excellent take down defence.

ZenMaster* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 05:48 PM
  #81
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 39,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Why would we use Cain's td stats? IATL claims Cain can't take JDS down (based on one half-hearted attempt). I'm saying that's unproven. What does Cain's td stats have to do with it?
I was looking at the thread from their first fight just to see who most of us picked and I came across this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Ive been riding the Dos Santos train ever since he made Werdum's neck fat wiggle. Im not hopping off now. That said the smart pick would be Cain imo. He is just so good on the ground and I dont think JDS will be able to stop his takedowns.
Personally, I didn't learn much from their first fight. Both guys were hurt and it ended before either one of them really did anything. JDS caught Cain behind the ear and it was done. IATL, you completely changed your original view based on one minute of fighting and one takedown attempt?

Avs_19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 06:29 PM
  #82
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's View Post
Why would we use Cain's td stats? IATL claims Cain can't take JDS down (based on one half-hearted attempt). I'm saying that's unproven. What does Cain's td stats have to do with it?

His stats are pointless. If you can't see that, that's your problem. Any true mma fan should know they mean next to nothing. If you think Frank Mir and Roy Nelson not being able to takedown JDS means Cain can't then I don't know what to tell you.

Your last sentence makes no sense but nice try.
lol... Alright, so I know what I'm dealing with here.

jw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 06:47 PM
  #83
Vamos Rafa
ADT = GH
 
Vamos Rafa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Clay Court
Country: Spain
Posts: 11,194
vCash: 500
Just bet 400 vCash on JDS.

Vamos Rafa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 07:15 PM
  #84
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,766
vCash: 500
What's the line?

jw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 07:28 PM
  #85
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,015
vCash: 500


Dana's and Rogan's faces.

__________________

"I don't know what the stronger emotion would be, the joy of winning or the pain of losing"-Sidney Crosby.
End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 08:04 PM
  #86
Jasper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,575
vCash: 500
Main Card (PPV):
Heavyweight Championship Bout: Junior dos Santos (c) vs Cain Velasquez
Lightweight Bout: Joe Lauzon vs Jim Miller
Middleweight Bout: Tim Boetsch vs Costa Philippou
Middleweight Bout: Yushin Okami vs Alan Belcher
Middleweight Bout: Chris Leben vs Derek Brunson

Preliminary Card:
Bantamweight Bout: Brad Pickett vs Eddie Wineland
Bantamweight Bout: Erik Perez vs Byron Bloodworth
Lightweight Bout: Melvin Guillard vs Jamie Varner
Lightweight Bout: Michael Johnson vs Myles Jury
Heavyweight Bout: Phil De Fries vs Todd Duffee
Flyweight Bout: Chris Cariaso vs John Moraga
Featherweight Bout: Max Holloway vs Leonard Garcia


Last edited by Jasper: 12-28-2012 at 08:11 PM.
Jasper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 08:08 PM
  #87
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,766
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post


Dana's and Rogan's faces.
Juniors statement was hilarious "I know you guys like knockouts, so here's 1 more."

Also wish I could comment about the difference in physics... But that doesn't matter in the HW division.

jw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 08:11 PM
  #88
jw2
Registered User
 
jw2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,766
vCash: 500
This should end up being a great card. I can see all these fights going either way, and the matchups should be exciting. Only lay and pray option would be Leben-Brunson, but I don't see it happening.

See you all tomorrow night.

(PM me if you need a feed).


Last edited by End of Line: 12-28-2012 at 08:45 PM.
jw2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 08:30 PM
  #89
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs_19 View Post
I was looking at the thread from their first fight just to see who most of us picked and I came across this post:



Personally, I didn't learn much from their first fight. Both guys were hurt and it ended before either one of them really did anything. JDS caught Cain behind the ear and it was done. IATL, you completely changed your original view based on one minute of fighting and one takedown attempt?
Im usually wrong more often than right, and am ok admitting that, although JDS was my pick the first time around so technically I was right that time.

I didnt look at the stats when I made that comment. I was just going with my gut, as so many here are doing now. Which is fine. But dont call me an idiot for pointing out the fact Dos Santos has only been taken down twice in his entire ufc career. If you want to disregard that tidbit, then be my guest, just dont expect me to agree with "it is because I say so" type of argument.

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #90
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,015
vCash: 500
Anik is replacing Goldberg tomorrow night on the broadcast btw.

End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 10:55 PM
  #91
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,937
vCash: 500
Main Card (PPV):
Heavyweight Championship Bout: Junior dos Santos (c) vs Cain Velasquez
Lightweight Bout: Joe Lauzon vs Jim Miller
Middleweight Bout: Tim Boetsch vs Costa Philippou
Middleweight Bout: Yushin Okami vs Alan Belcher
Middleweight Bout: Chris Leben vs Derek Brunson

Preliminary Card:
Bantamweight Bout: Brad Pickett vs Eddie Wineland
Bantamweight Bout: Erik Perez vs Byron Bloodworth
Lightweight Bout: Melvin Guillard vs Jamie Varner
Lightweight Bout: Michael Johnson vs Myles Jury

Heavyweight Bout: Phil De Fries vs Todd Duffee
Featherweight Bout: Max Holloway vs Leonard Garcia
Flyweight Bout: Chris Cariaso vs John Moraga

Peter Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-28-2012, 11:49 PM
  #92
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
How come nobody is picking Cain anymore?

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 12:33 AM
  #93
BGDDYKWL
Registered User
 
BGDDYKWL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,714
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ck26 View Post
Cain is a better wrestler than Brock. Hate to overstate something when our sample size is 1 engagement, but Cain stood up from under Brock almost immediately. I change my mind constantly on topics like this (so ask against next month), but I think nitpicking details between world class guys is silly. Cain, Brock and Carwin's wrestling ... GSP, Koscheck and Fitch wrestling ... Belfort, Leites or Maia in jiu jitsu ... they're all world class, so the differences between these fighters are down to athleticism and other skills, not the intricacies of their wrestling..
I hear ya, but I'd give Lesnar the edge in wrestling. Lesnar took Cain down in under a minute. That is very impressive. If Lesnar hadn't rushed the transition I stand by what I've said in the past which is that fight could've gone down entirely differently. Now Cain's cardio could mean for the entire duration of a fight he's the better wrestler because while I feel Lesnar is better at 100%, Cain is still near his peak well into the fight whereas Lesnar probably isn't. Carwin is a distant third as he just isn't explosive enough to effectively take guys down. And I understand some of it is nitpicking, but GSP is the clearly superior MMA wrestler of those three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
As I mentioned, the take downs will come after he gets JDS hurt. In that sense, he's not relying on his wrestling. Cain isn't going to try to pull off his best Chael Sonnen impression in this fight. He's going to try to do what he always does - throw bombs, hurt the guy, GnP for the finish.
This would be a huge mistake. The Sonnen approach is exactly what Cain should do. This strategy suggests that he needs to first outstrike the top striker in the division before using his wrestling. That would be a terrible idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
So, instead, we need to rely on Cain's TD stats against Rothwell, Kongo and Jeremiah Constant?

Or are you just mad that he kept giving stats you wanted, but you dont agree with them?
JDS' takedown defense against Big Country and Mir has absolutely nothing to do with this fight. Both of those guys are terrible at taking guys down. Cain is the top wrestler in the UFC, so unless JDS stuffed repeated takedown attempts from Lesnar, then I still feel that Cain certainly has the ability to take him down. Cain is by far the best MMA wrestler JDS has faced, so that poses an interesting threat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not trying to imply Cain is boring. He is anything but that. Im a big fan. My thought was trying to figure out how Cain would be able to beat JDS. I think those who are counting on Cain being able to take JDS down and gn'p him are not very likely to happen based on past history.
The past history is largely irrelevant because the guys weren't at Cain's wrestling level. I love statistics, and probably use them as much as anyone when trying to articulate my point, but if Nelson and Mir couldn't take JDS down that doesn't tell me anything about what will happen in this fight. And sure JDS quickly disposed of Cain the first time around, but that was more getting caught than being stuffed repeatedly and forced to stand. We didn't get enough of a picture for anything conclusive in terms of how the rematch might play out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jw2 View Post
What's the line?
It'd roughly JDS -200 and Cain +170 depending on where exactly you look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
How come nobody is picking Cain anymore?
You're getting me all fired up here Liquor. Lol. I don't do the pick 'ems anymore but I'm gonna say Cain is able to use his wrestling, wear JDS down in the first, and finish him late in the 2nd via GnP.


Last edited by BGDDYKWL: 12-29-2012 at 05:44 PM.
BGDDYKWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 12:51 AM
  #94
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGDDYKWL View Post
You're getting me all fired up here Liquor. Lol. I don't do the pick 'ems anymore but I'm gonna say Cain is able to use his wrestling, wear JDS down in the first, and finish him late in the 2nd via GnP.
Care to make a friendly wager?

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 08:12 AM
  #95
Bad News Bears
MACHADO ABOUT NOTHIN
 
Bad News Bears's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Country: Australia
Posts: 3,680
vCash: 500
Main Card (PPV):
Heavyweight Championship Bout: Junior dos Santos (c) vs Cain Velasquez
Lightweight Bout: Joe Lauzon vs Jim Miller
Middleweight Bout: Tim Boetsch vs Costa Philippou
Middleweight Bout: Yushin Okami vs Alan Belcher
Middleweight Bout: Chris Leben vs Derek Brunson

Preliminary Card:
Bantamweight Bout: Brad Pickett vs Eddie Wineland
Bantamweight Bout: Erik Perez vs Byron Bloodworth
Lightweight Bout: Melvin Guillard vs Jamie Varner
Lightweight Bout: Michael Johnson vs Myles Jury
Heavyweight Bout: Phil De Fries vs Todd Duffee
Flyweight Bout: Chris Cariaso vs John Moraga
Featherweight Bout: Max Holloway vs Leonard Garcia

Bad News Bears is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 09:19 AM
  #96
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Care to make a friendly wager?
Avatar bet?

End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 10:15 AM
  #97
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
Avatar bet?
Sure.

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 10:36 AM
  #98
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Sure.
Lay out what you want to do, and I'll make sure it happens. As long as BDYKWL wants to do it.

End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 11:32 AM
  #99
I am the Liquor
Registered User
 
I am the Liquor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sunnyvale
Country: Canada
Posts: 34,674
vCash: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
Lay out what you want to do, and I'll make sure it happens. As long as BDYKWL wants to do it.
Not a big deal, but if he/she wants, we can do a loser wears the avatar of the winner's choice for a week/month or whatever.

We can do it for the winner of the fight (Cain vs JDS) or an over/under on the amount of successful takedowns made by Cain. I would say 3 is a good number. If he gets more than three he/she wins, less than three I win, exactly three would be a push, no winner.

I am the Liquor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-29-2012, 12:55 PM
  #100
End of Line
Moderator
Human After All
 
End of Line's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 20,015
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not a big deal, but if he/she wants, we can do a loser wears the avatar of the winner's choice for a week/month or whatever.

We can do it for the winner of the fight (Cain vs JDS) or an over/under on the amount of successful takedowns made by Cain. I would say 3 is a good number. If he gets more than three he/she wins, less than three I win, exactly three would be a push, no winner.
Sounds good.

End of Line is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:13 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.