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2012 CBA/Lockout talk Part VII..Will a deal get done..

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Old
12-28-2012, 05:16 PM
  #401
Shaun
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@NYP_Brooksie Talk within NHL of flipping Winnipeg and Columbus for this year only pending future realignment...

Free Wins for us

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12-28-2012, 05:17 PM
  #402
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Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
fear not michelle...tuukka will be stoppin' pucks cold as ice for the Bruins in a matter of weeks.
You know exactly the words to say to cheer me up!

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12-28-2012, 05:41 PM
  #403
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Gettin' closer. Funny, what happened to "the hill they'd die on" a few weeks ago, re: contract length? I wouldn't be surprised if Fehr tries for a shortened CBA length, since he still has a little time to play with.

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12-28-2012, 06:25 PM
  #404
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Originally Posted by BrainOfJ View Post
Dan...how many times have you moved your expected target date?
the November 15th one was MINE

funny but I just picked up my kid at hockey practice and said so and so called me and told me this about the lockout and she said 'I don't want to hear anything about the lockout, I don't care.....'

kids gonna hate

I like 15 so I have gone with November and December so far....I really want to go January 15th but if I do I may screw it over

anyways, pasta party pickup at another fellow Bruins season tickets holders house so gotta go- planned on watching USA-Russia on the couch but it can wait

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12-28-2012, 06:39 PM
  #405
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...

Just chiming in to say that the league's latest offer sounds like a deal to me. Regardless of what the PA says... That's a fair deal that rings right.

Good job, NHL.

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12-28-2012, 07:29 PM
  #406
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Originally Posted by ProdigalFan View Post
Gettin' closer. Funny, what happened to "the hill they'd die on" a few weeks ago, re: contract length? I wouldn't be surprised if Fehr tries for a shortened CBA length, since he still has a little time to play with.
I would not be surprised if the "hill they will die on" comment was simply a bargaining chip planted by Daly. Betman and Daly probably knew they would have to move on some issue in order to get a deal done. They probably decided that this "contract length" issue was an area they could move on and perhaps the least important of their big 3 issues.

Hence, Daly throws out the comment "the hill they will die on" obviously giving the impression it was of ultimate importance to the owners, where in reality it was the least Important. Now they move on that point and it appears as if they are making a huge concession to the P.A.

Very smart negotiating tactic if that was their intent.

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12-28-2012, 07:32 PM
  #407
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Originally Posted by LyndonByers View Post
I would not be surprised if the "hill they will die on" comment was simply a bargaining chip planted by Daly. Betman and Daly probably knew they would have to move on some issue in order to get a deal done. They probably decided that this "contract length" issue was an area they could move on and perhaps the least important of their big 3 issues.

Hence, Daly throws out the comment "the hill they will die on" obviously giving the impression it was of ultimate importance to the owners, where in reality it was the least Important. Now they move on that point and it appears as if they are making a huge concession to the P.A.

Very smart negotiating tactic if that was their intent.
Their negotiation strategy was to claim "take it or leave it" over and over, but every time they gave in they lost credibility. They were hoping players would get desperate and react out of fear that there was nothing more to win and everything to lose.

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12-28-2012, 07:36 PM
  #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossfire View Post
@NYP_Brooksie Talk within NHL of flipping Winnipeg and Columbus for this year only pending future realignment...

Free Wins for us
I will miss Evander Kane and his fat stacks however...

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12-28-2012, 07:56 PM
  #409
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I will miss Evander Kane and his fat stacks however...
I'm still on the pipe dream of him wearing the spoked B.


I won't give up~

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:03 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Their negotiation strategy was to claim "take it or leave it" over and over, but every time they gave in they lost credibility. They were hoping players would get desperate and react out of fear that there was nothing more to win and everything to lose.
Losing credibility could be one way to look at it.

However, it could also be the owners moving further then they anticipated in a last resort attempt to save the season. I would not take a chance on that if I was a player. Sitting there waiting maybe Fehrs strategy but it could end up backfiring with both sides going off the cliff.

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12-28-2012, 08:08 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by LyndonByers View Post
Losing credibility could be one way to look at it.

However, it could also be the owners moving further then they anticipated in a last resort attempt to save the season. I would not take a chance on that if I was a player. Sitting there waiting maybe Fehrs strategy but it could end up backfiring with both sides going off the cliff.
I meant that the threats of "this is the hill we will die on" or "that offer is off the table" or "take it or leave it" or "this is the best we can do" start to lose their meaning when they keep coming back to the table. Why not just negotiate rather than issue ultimatums that aren't really ultimatums at all? I think the answer is that they figured they could scare the players away from Fehr.

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12-28-2012, 08:39 PM
  #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
I meant that the threats of "this is the hill we will die on" or "that offer is off the table" or "take it or leave it" or "this is the best we can do" start to lose their meaning when they keep coming back to the table. Why not just negotiate rather than issue ultimatums that aren't really ultimatums at all? I think the answer is that they figured they could scare the players away from Fehr.
I understand your point and that may in fact be something the owners look back on and regret. We all know both sides have made huge missteps throughout this process.

But my point is that rather then looking at this as the owners making false ultimatums it could simply be them going further then they really wanted. An attempt to salvage the season and any further damage done to the league. I heard Toews today making comments similar to yours and it just kind of shows the distrust and bitterness between both sides even at this stage in this mess.

It is evident that they are down to the final stages of either getting a deal done or cancelling a season and personally I give the league a bit of credit for extending an olive branch in an attempt to save the season. I can't get on them for going further then they anticipated and being willing to accept the possible "credibility" ramifications of moving off their earlier ultimatums.

I just think the time for the fingerpointing is over, at least until a decision is made either way. Guys like Toews going off about "ownership credibility" does not reflect well on the P.A at this point and does nothing to expedite the process. In fact, that mentality could galvonize the owners further.

Like I said, I understand your point, but going after the owners credibility at this time because the owners moved off an earlier ultimatum is something I feel is not helpful to the process.

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12-28-2012, 08:51 PM
  #413
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Originally Posted by LyndonByers View Post
I understand your point and that may in fact be something the owners look back on and regret. We all know both sides have made huge missteps throughout this process.

But my point is that rather then looking at this as the owners making false ultimatums it could simply be them going further then they really wanted. An attempt to salvage the season and any further damage done to the league. I heard Toews today making comments similar to yours and it just kind of shows the distrust and bitterness between both sides even at this stage in this mess.

It is evident that they are down to the final stages of either getting a deal done or cancelling a season and personally I give the league a bit of credit for extending an olive branch in an attempt to save the season. I can't get on them for going further then they anticipated and being willing to accept the possible "credibility" ramifications of moving off their earlier ultimatums.

I just think the time for the fingerpointing is over, at least until a decision is made either way. Guys like Toews going off about "ownership credibility" does not reflect well on the P.A at this point and does nothing to expedite the process. In fact, that mentality could galvonize the owners further.

Like I said, I understand your point, but going after the owners credibility at this time because the owners moved off an earlier ultimatum is something I feel is not helpful to the process.
Well said.

This is a better offer than I was expecting the owners to put forward. Their businesses are at risk of going down the toilet due to the greedy PA and Fehr. The deal looks fair and good to me, I just wonder what more the players want since it seems they feel entitled to some moral victory after all of this crap they are putting everyone through.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:12 PM
  #414
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Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Their businesses are at risk of going down the toilet due to the greedy PA and Fehr.
I respectfully disagree. Their businesses are at risk of going down the toilet due to their own greed and poor business plan.

Add to that their strategies of using a last resort negotiating tactic (lockout) as a primary plan and then their ridiculous legal swipes at the union, and you have a pretty good understanding of why Fehr and the NHLPA felt compelled to reject every insulting offer they've thus had.

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12-28-2012, 09:12 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Mione134 View Post
I'm still on the pipe dream of him wearing the spoked B.


I won't give up~
My pipe dream is the other Kane wearing the spoked B.
He is a very exciting player and at least has a friend in Tyler Seguin.

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12-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #416
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If I had to choose between either Kane I wouldn't even consider taking Patrick, especially since I am a Bruins fan. Imagine Lucic on one line and Evander on another line ... hell!

Plus ... he one-punched the biggest **** in the history of that sport. He was 19 years old back then. Evander Kande is a ****** boss!


Last edited by Braunbaer: 12-28-2012 at 09:35 PM.
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12-28-2012, 09:36 PM
  #417
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Paul Kelly said on NESN he thinks it gets done by the end of the week.

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12-28-2012, 09:48 PM
  #418
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Paul Kelly said on NESN he thinks it gets done by the end of the week.
He said that a 5 weeks ago he has always been positive.

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12-29-2012, 12:18 AM
  #419
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Question: If the new CBA includes a single compliance buyout...do we buyout Savard? Or let his contract stay on the cap and have insurance pay it?

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12-29-2012, 01:04 AM
  #420
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Originally Posted by 08SeaBass08 View Post
I respectfully disagree. Their businesses are at risk of going down the toilet due to their own greed and poor business plan.

Add to that their strategies of using a last resort negotiating tactic (lockout) as a primary plan and then their ridiculous legal swipes at the union, and you have a pretty good understanding of why Fehr and the NHLPA felt compelled to reject every insulting offer they've thus had.
At first I thought the same way as you do until time went on and it because clear how silly the NHLPA is being as well. The NHL is the side that wanted to negotiate from the start, at least. Also I believe only the initial offer was the stupidly insulting one.

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12-29-2012, 01:38 AM
  #421
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Question: If the new CBA includes a single compliance buyout...do we buyout Savard? Or let his contract stay on the cap and have insurance pay it?
Good question. He could retire for 13/14 since the contract was front loaded and he was always going to retire before the last season. I think a buyout has no chance of happening becuase it might mean we actually have to pay him (why would insurance pay a buyout?)

Apart from him Chiarelli hasn't given out any stupid contracts so I think the rest of the team would be traded before being bought out (Kelly/Boychuk...or Marchand/Lucic/Krejci for more money) I can't see how teams won't cough up a pick or two for those guys.

EDIT- just looked at cap geek if the cap is 60 mil I am buying out Campbells 1.6.

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12-29-2012, 06:24 AM
  #422
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Good question. He could retire for 13/14 since the contract was front loaded and he was always going to retire before the last season. I think a buyout has no chance of happening becuase it might mean we actually have to pay him (why would insurance pay a buyout?)

Apart from him Chiarelli hasn't given out any stupid contracts so I think the rest of the team would be traded before being bought out (Kelly/Boychuk...or Marchand/Lucic/Krejci for more money) I can't see how teams won't cough up a pick or two for those guys.

EDIT- just looked at cap geek if the cap is 60 mil I am buying out Campbells 1.6.
"he was always going to retire before the last season"??? Really? You know this how?

The contract given to Savvy was hardly stupid

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12-29-2012, 06:27 AM
  #423
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Savard won't be bought out if we can put him on LTIR. He won't retire either.

His contract isn't stupid, either. Not even close. It's only a problem because he isn't playing.

I don't really think PC has given out contracts that are stupid as far as cash or length goes. Some NMC/NTCs were questionable, however.

If we need a buyout, it'll come from someone who is easily replaceable by someone in the system.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:29 AM
  #424
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At first I thought the same way as you do until time went on and it because clear how silly the NHLPA is being as well. The NHL is the side that wanted to negotiate from the start, at least. Also I believe only the initial offer was the stupidly insulting one.
I keep hearing how the initial offer was so insulting and in reality perhaps it was.

However, didn't the players have a 57% share of the revenue in the previous CBA? A CBA that the P.A claims they lost when it is evident that they did very well under that system and were certainly willing to continue under.

So if 43 % is so insulting to the P.A in a new CBA would they not understand why the owners are trying to even up the % of revenue? If 43% is so "insulting" then it must have been just as insulting to the owners previously. So the P.A's credibility could also be questioned in this regard.

Not met to pick on you but I keep hearing about the initial offer being so bad and wonder why I never heard this from the P.A when they were pulling 57% of HRR.

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12-29-2012, 07:23 AM
  #425
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Paul Kelly said on NESN he thinks it gets done by the end of the week.
That's cause Paul Kelly would have gone at this like a reasonable human being. He's underestimating how much this can get fehred up

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