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Mark Scheifele for Phil Kessel

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:27 PM
  #26
Stephen
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Mark Scheifele could blossom into that big franchise center every organization in the league would want to build around, but Kessel is also a young guy with gamebreaking one strike goal scoring ability they invested in heavily. I'm not sure it's worth the gamble for Toronto, since the plan is definitely to bring in a center to play with Kessel, not to trade him to get a guy who could have the same impact as Kessel, and then not have a winger to play with him in four or five years time.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:30 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I'm not sure it's worth the gamble for Toronto, since the plan is definitely to bring in a center to play with Kessel.
According to OP: Scheifele will be as impactful of a player, some just know by watching him play, not in the next several years, but after. Kessel is replaced by Perry.
^The above is not convincing at all.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
Keep in mind, I am weighing heavily on perry joining us. That should make more sense for everybody.
Ofcourse. Trade Reimer while we wait for Belfour to come out of retirement too.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:56 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
makes no sense. leafs are in win-now mode. burke's job is on the line. He's not trading away his only 1st-liner for futures, as good as a prospect scheifele is
Hahahahahaha!!!

Wait, I have trouble with sarcasm. Are you being serious?

/Not really.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:58 PM
  #30
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As a Habs fan I have to tell you that the deal sucks for the Leafs. Kessel is a far better and proven talent than Scheifele, which is no insult to Scheifele. THe Leafs would definitely ask for something better to be added. It would have to be something around Scheifele, a 1st in 2013 and a 2nd as well. The problem is that the Jets NEED Scheifele because of their center weakness. So, in a swap like you describe, the Jets say "yes" and laugh at the Leafs (as would the rest of the entire planet). In the real world, the Leafs ask for the package that is fair value (see what I posted above) and the Jets politely decline due to their own needs for a center.

You shouldn't get so offended when people are telling you that your proposal is trash for the Leafs. Those people are trying to help you see that there is value in your player, they are not necessarily insulting you. Scheifele is a very good prospect. He may or may not pan out. Kessel is a proven goal scorer on a bad team. Keep Kessel and go sign Getzlaff instead of Perry. THAT would help the Leafs far more than what you are proposing to do.


Last edited by spiny norman: 12-28-2012 at 10:01 PM. Reason: qdp
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Old
12-28-2012, 08:19 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
As a Habs fan I have to tell you that the deal sucks for the Leafs. Kessel is a far better and proven talent than Scheifele, which is no insult to Scheifele. THe Leafs would definitely ask for something better to be added. It would have to be something around Scheifele, a 1st in 2013 and a 2nd as well. The problem is that the Jets NEED Scheifele because of their center weakness. So, in a swap like you describe, the Jets say "yes" and laugh at the Leafs (as would the rest of the entire planet). In the real world, the Leafs ask for the package that is fair value (see what I posted above) and the Jets politely decline due to their own needs for a center.

You shouldn't get so offended when people are telling you that your proposal is trash for the Leafs. Those people are trying to help you see that there is value in your player, they are not necessarily insulting you. Scheifele is a very good prospect. He may or may not pan out. Kessel is a proven goal scorer on a bad team. Keep Kessel and go sign Getzlaff instead of Perry. THAT would help the Leafs far more than what you are proposing to do.
I like it personally. As for the responses, the short ones that guys throw out there with no thought being put into them pisses me off. You're right though, enough of responding to these guys. Great post btw. I see your point of view and I'm a big kessel fan. I'd rather have a combo of scheifele and perry though instead if we could do it.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:30 PM
  #32
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Take out the seconds and throw in a guy like Burmistrov. Even then I I don't think I would pull the trigger.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:31 PM
  #33
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This is the first time other fans are telling a Leafs fan that his proposed deal is terrible for the team. Funniest part is he's not listening.

No GM on earth makes trades based on the assumption that he will be able to sign a star player to take the place of the one being traded. If Burke does something even close to the proposed deal he should be fired.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:32 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
As a Habs fan I have to tell you that the deal sucks for the Leafs. Kessel is a far better and proven talent than Scheifele, which is no insult to Scheifele. THe Leafs would definitely ask for something better to be added. It would have to be something around Scheifele, a 1st in 2013 and a 2nd as well. The problem is that the Jets NEED Scheifele because of their center weakness. So, in a swap like you describe, the Jets say "yes" and laugh at the Leafs (as would the rest of the entire planet). In the real world, the Leafs ask for the package that is fair value (see what I posted above) and the Jets politely decline due to their own needs for a center.
Good Post Drydenwasthebest.

Kessel is worth more than Scheifele right now. I'm a fan of Scheifele and can see that the Jets would make the original offer.

But like Dryden says, in no way do the Jets add in the pieces necessary to make the deal. The Jets need to build around players like Scheifele, as well as the draft picks / other players that would be needed to make this deal happen.

In regards to other offers, Scheifele + Kane, or Scheifele + Bogosian, or Scheifele + Ladd are all overpayments on Winnipeg's end for Kessel. Both Richards and Carter (from Philly), returned less, and are both better than Kessel.

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Take out the seconds and throw in a guy like Burmistrov. Even then I I don't think I would pull the trigger.
Can't see the Jets doing that either to be honest.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:37 PM
  #35
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Haha, thats garbage for the leafs.

OP, stop getting offended by every single person laughing at this joke.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:42 PM
  #36
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A big part of Lupul being PPG was great chemistry with Kessel. Without Kessel, even with better linemates, he ends up 3rd line with a stint in the AHL. Remember Anaheim? Speaking of Anaheim, Perry is likely to stay. Getzlaf is a different story, Burke would probably pursue him instead of trading Kessel for a risky prospect.

Even then this deal makes little sense. 2nd rounders are usually unimportant players. Bergeron, Weber, Lucic are exceptions, not the rule. Look at the 2nd round of 2003. Half of the picks never amounted to much, and this was a star-studded draft class.

Burke is in danger of losing his job. He's not going to take the risk of trading the franchise cornerstone for a 40 or 50 point prospect and 2 2nd rounders that might not amount to anything.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:43 PM
  #37
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Good Post Drydenwasthebest.



Can't see the Jets doing that either to be honest.
Exactly. We are really not great trading partners when it comes to these types of deals. Interesting idea though as it has given me something to think about that is not lockout related.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:45 PM
  #38
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No matter how good of a prospect scheifele is, he's still only a prospect. Leafs lose this trade big time.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I explained it. Reading comprehension I think is what it's called. You're losing a few points of productions, quite possibly around 25-30 for the first little while, but it makes us a better team in my mind when we get our other wings in the system. Perry is also my target.
Why would Perry even want to play for Toronto? I see him signing with a contender like Pittsburgh, Vancouver, etc. if he does not resign with the Ducks, which he probably will. Via trade, you'll be giving up too much for it to be worth your while; sacrificing too much for too little gain because Perry would require an overpayment.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:48 PM
  #40
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I appreciate the effort that you put in, but it's just not very good. You don't trade a 37 goal PPG all-star winger in a deal where the main piece coming back is a prospect. You just don't. That's a risk that doesn't make sense to take even if Corey Perry has signed a 3,000 year deal with you (and then why wouldn't you just keep the two and lol while they outscore your problems?) Unless you just want to blow the team up, in which case there's better candidates to ship off than a 25 year old Kessel, and even if you decide to ship him off, you can do a lot better than Scheifele and a pair of 2nds. No insult to Scheifele, but a 30+ goal guy is what you *hope* he becomes.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
So let me get this straight.

Burke gives up:

Seguin
Hamilton
Knight

-for-

Scheifele
2nd
2nd

Uh, So let me get this straight.

Burke gives up:

Seguin
Hamilton
Knight

-for-

Kessel


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Old
12-28-2012, 09:00 PM
  #42
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Lol that is disgusting.

Kessel + Colborne for Kane + Schiefle

ONLY if Perry signs ... Which I doubt.

I'm not even high on Schiefle tbh ...

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:04 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
According to OP: Scheifele will be as impactful of a player, some just know by watching him play, not in the next several years, but after. Kessel is replaced by Perry.
^The above is not convincing at all.
I know right, he hasn't even proved anything to show what he's worth and OP wants Kessel for him. Leafs would be stupid to take this proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I like it personally. As for the responses, the short ones that guys throw out there with no thought being put into them pisses me off. You're right though, enough of responding to these guys. Great post btw. I see your point of view and I'm a big kessel fan. I'd rather have a combo of scheifele and perry though instead if we could do it.
Maybe you should've put more time into yourOWN proposal, making it better then your OP wouldn't be ridiculed as much.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Exactly. We are really not great trading partners when it comes to these types of deals. Interesting idea though as it has given me something to think about that is not lockout related.
What are your thoughts on what he'll become down the road?

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:06 PM
  #45
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Keep in mind, I am weighing heavily on perry joining us. That should make more sense for everybody.
Keep dreaming buddy.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:15 PM
  #46
iPunch
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haha if only this was semi relevant you little witt.
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
17 k posts must do that to ya. Stay relevant and prove your worth. That milestone is coming up.
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. That's how it works.

Not only are you banking on acquiring a player that is under contract to another team, you're willing to make a hole to accommodate him. Corey Perry's agent himself couldn't even guarantee where he goes. AND you didn't even bother checking Winnipeg's needs, as you stated in your first sentence. How can you claim to have put "effort" in when you say that?

Go back to NHL13. I'll give you a 2014 2nd round pick if you stop making proposals now.


Last edited by iPunch: 12-28-2012 at 09:22 PM.
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Old
12-28-2012, 09:27 PM
  #47
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Back when Couturier dropped and we took Scheifele, I'll admit I was ticked. Looking now at what Scheif has done over the past two seasons in Barrie and the WJC right now, I'm pretty pleased with what I see and am confident now that he will at least be as good as Couturier anyway. As for this trade, I'd probably do it value wise cause it's just too good in the Jets favour to pass up, but I don't really like Kessel as a player.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:32 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by gvkmedia View Post
Uh, So let me get this straight.

Burke gives up:

Seguin
Hamilton
Knight

-for-

Kessel

I'm really starting to hope Hamilton flops hard in the NHL thanks to all these Bruins' fans who find it necessary to bring the trade up whenever possible.

As for the original proposal, Jets take that in a heartbeat. Is OP serious? Scheifele hasn't proven jack at the NHL level, while Kessel is a proven sniper who can pot 35 goals a season. What if Scheifele can't produce in the NHL? What if Perry doesn't sign with the Leafs? Can Lupul maintain the same point production without Kessel? There are way too many risks and variables involved with this proposal, the only constant is Kessel and you're shipping him out.

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:33 PM
  #49
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Value wise Kessel is the better player. But he doesn't make the difference for the Jets. The Jets are better off not pissing away their future. I would hate the Jets to make a Seguin/Hamilton/Knight type trade.

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Old
12-28-2012, 10:23 PM
  #50
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Bad trade for both teams.

If that would be offered I think Winnipeg accepts and then flips Kessel again for prospects, but this time for what he's actually worth.

That doesn't mean more comes from Winnipegs end. Winnipeg has literally no desire for Kessel. Winnipeg needs very young players to add to the core of Bogosian, Trouba, Scheifele, Burmistrov, and Kane. So Winnipeg would be trading what they need for what they don't want in this situation.

Maybe something around Gardiner for Burmistrov? Even then I'd like to see what the Jets could get out of the draft first.

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