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1971 draft

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:01 AM
  #26
Big Phil
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I still take Lafleur. Even though he was a bit of an enigma as we know now. He was rambunctious and careless off the ice and he hated the structured style of practice wanting things to be more natural and such. But, once he hit his stride by 1974-'75 he was something else and he was a guy who was going to win you games, series, Cups. He just had that flash about him. I don't know, the thing about Lafleur was this quiet confidence he always seemed to have on the ice. You knew he was almost cocky on the inside, but there was always this calming prescence during that dynasty that few others had. Look at when he scored the goal to tie the game against Boston in Game 7 in 1979. It was almost as if he knew it was going to happen eventually. I'll take a guy like that even if Dionne's career lasted longer.

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12-28-2012, 08:55 PM
  #27
Redscotter
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Here's a site I'm sure most of you are familiar with >>>

http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1971/71main.htm

As an aside, to 1975, Dionne looked like he should have been #1. Lafleur had not lived to his potential until the 74-75 season ...

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12-28-2012, 09:26 PM
  #28
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I could write a book about Guy Lafleur there is no doubt number 1 is lafleur.Many in quebec say he's the best hab ever.As for his careless of ice antics if I'm 61 yrs old and look like lafleur he's in incredible condition.As for partying the two biggest clowns were Joe Montana and Michael Jordan.Lafleur looks like an angel compared to those slugs.Married to the same wife he's a pilot he's received one of the highest military honors for supporting the canadian soldiers in Afganistan.He played with shutt and lemaire both you could argue are boderline hf.He and Gainey were the two fittest players on the habs.In the 1976 canada cup Lafleur had the highest oxygen test among all players.All i can say is what Howie Meeker said in his best selling book"Guy Lafleur is the best canadiens player ever"and no one hated to loose more than him

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:44 PM
  #29
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As for people who said he had a slow start is another myth.Guy Lafleur played center in most of his first 3 seasons.In his rookie season he had 3 hat tricks the most he ever had despite playing on 3rd and 4th line.Bowman almost destroyed his career before realizing where to play him.IN THE 78-79 season lafleur had 50 pts more than any of his mates.As Robinson said numerous times in interviews he was by far the best player I ever played with during my time as a hab.Even in the early 80's despite missing dozens of games due to many injuries he was still leading the team is scoring except for one season.His off-ice antics had no connection to his slow down.He should have been traded but SAVARD did not want to.

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12-29-2012, 02:00 AM
  #30
Redscotter
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Let's compare Dionne to Lafleur through 1974-75:

Season GP G A PTS PM
Dionne
71-72 78 28 49 77 14
72-73 77 40 50 90 21
73-74 74 24 54 78 10
74-75 80 47 74 121 14
Totals 309 139 227 366 59
Avg 77 35 57 92 15

Lafleur
71-72 73 29 35 64 48
72-73 70 28 27 55 51
73-74 73 21 35 56 29
74-75 70 53 66 119 37
Totals 286 131 163 294 165
Avg 72 33 41 74 41

The records are actually fairly comparable, unless you refuse to concede that Lafleur was playing with a MUCH better team that contended for the Stanley Cup most of these four seasons.

What we forget about Dionne early career was just how terrible the Detroit Red Wings were during this period. They had one winning (barely ...) season in 1972-73.

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12-29-2012, 02:09 AM
  #31
Redscotter
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Could you imagine Dionne with The Habs ?

I admired both Hokey Players, but Dionne to my mind was underrated. As we all know the trade to LA removed him from everday consideration from Hockey Mavens across the North-East ....

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12-29-2012, 02:19 AM
  #32
Big Phil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redscotter View Post
Could you imagine Dionne with The Habs ?

I admired both Hokey Players, but Dionne to my mind was underrated. As we all know the trade to LA removed him from everday consideration from Hockey Mavens across the North-East ....
I am not sure Dionne's stats improve if he is a Hab. He isn't a big fish in a small pond anymore. I will mention that Lafleur was very much in the same boat offensively as him and he never cracked more than 136 points in a season. Phil Esposito who was also very similar to him offensively cracked 152, 145, 133 and 130 as his best. Dionne had several 130 point years so that wasn't unusual to him. Esposito had Orr playing with him as well. I mean, how much better are we expecting Dionne to be, 170 points a year on the Habs? I think he is more or less the same offensively because he'd be sharing a little more glory and he'd have a much more demanding and erratic coach (Bowman). That doesn't scream higher point totals. I personally think his offense would have been the same but his team success different.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redscotter View Post
Let's compare Dionne to Lafleur through 1974-75:

Season GP G A PTS PM
Dionne
71-72 78 28 49 77 14
72-73 77 40 50 90 21
73-74 74 24 54 78 10
74-75 80 47 74 121 14
Totals 309 139 227 366 59
Avg 77 35 57 92 15

Lafleur
71-72 73 29 35 64 48
72-73 70 28 27 55 51
73-74 73 21 35 56 29
74-75 70 53 66 119 37
Totals 286 131 163 294 165
Avg 72 33 41 74 41

The records are actually fairly comparable, unless you refuse to concede that Lafleur was playing with a MUCH better team that contended for the Stanley Cup most of these four seasons.

What we forget about Dionne early career was just how terrible the Detroit Red Wings were during this period. They had one winning (barely ...) season in 1972-73.
You are not considering that Dionne was playing 20+ minutes a night from the get go while Lafleur was playing 8-10 minutes a night the first three years of his career.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:11 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I am not sure Dionne's stats improve if he is a Hab. He isn't a big fish in a small pond anymore. I will mention that Lafleur was very much in the same boat offensively as him and he never cracked more than 136 points in a season. Phil Esposito who was also very similar to him offensively cracked 152, 145, 133 and 130 as his best. Dionne had several 130 point years so that wasn't unusual to him. Esposito had Orr playing with him as well. I mean, how much better are we expecting Dionne to be, 170 points a year on the Habs? I think he is more or less the same offensively because he'd be sharing a little more glory and he'd have a much more demanding and erratic coach (Bowman). That doesn't scream higher point totals. I personally think his offense would have been the same but his team success different.
Yeah, I would agree that neither Lafleur or Dionne could have scored 150 on the Habs. Bowman was so defensively and checking inclined as a coach that Gainey and Jarvis got a lot of ice especially in close games in the 3rd period. Bowman let Lafleur do his thing and 136 may be the best he could have done. However, Lafleur rarely if ever killed penalties like we saw Gretzky and Lemieux do in their time and Dionne did in the 70's (he set a record at the time for 10 sh goals). I'm sure he could have been good for 8 or 12 sh points in any given season if he had the opportunity. But those were the sacrifices made playing for a championship team in those days. So he may have got into the 140's.

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:57 AM
  #35
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If I implied I thought Dionne would score 70 goals per season with the Habs, I apologise - although I do think with a better supporting cast he would have done quite well - even under Bowman's system.

I say this because Dionne came-out the OHA, whereas Lafleur came out of the QMJHL - which for most of its history has been a "run & gun" league. The OHA/OHL has always been a more balanced style of hockey.

Under Bowman, Dionne could have been what he should have been - better regarded.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Great link...I never knew this before. Stupid decision by Pollock. Nice read on the Savard one also. Combine these with Geoffrion over Bossy...Pollock made as many good moves as he did bad ones.
Technically it was Mark Napier over Mike Bossy, who ended up having consecutive 40 goal seasons before being nonsensically traded early the following season. Bossy on the Habs would have been amazing but my only concern is that he never would have gotten a chance to blossom starting his career as a rookie on a championship team and playing in Lafleur's shadow...Also, as far as the pick, Napier has just had a 60 goal season in the WHA which I think gave him an advantage over Bossy in the draft.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:58 PM
  #37
Canadiens1958
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1977 Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergForever View Post
Technically it was Mark Napier over Mike Bossy, who ended up having consecutive 40 goal seasons before being nonsensically traded early the following season. Bossy on the Habs would have been amazing but my only concern is that he never would have gotten a chance to blossom starting his career as a rookie on a championship team and playing in Lafleur's shadow...Also, as far as the pick, Napier has just had a 60 goal season in the WHA which I think gave him an advantage over Bossy in the draft.
Virtually all the teams missed out on Mike Bossy in 1977. Same teams also missed out on Rod Langway and John Tonelli.

The WHA was a wild card in the draft - no guarantee that players would leave the WHA or that draftees would not play in the WHA. Talk of Bossy playing in Quebec/WHA before the draft.

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:27 AM
  #38
Psycho Papa Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergForever View Post
Technically it was Mark Napier over Mike Bossy, who ended up having consecutive 40 goal seasons before being nonsensically traded early the following season.
Trading Napier was a great trade for the Habs. They ended up with a big, true #1 center in Bobby Smith.

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