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THN: Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:51 AM
  #376
CoolForumNamePending
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I dunno... How does one even define 'hockey city' anyway?

When it comes to watching and following hockey I think it is fair to say sports/hockey fans in Toronto are pretty NHL, but not just Leafs, focused. There also doesn't appear to be much of a market for the OHL/CHL in the GTA (although it does very well in cities within an hour or so of Toronto), but the Marlies attendance has been climbing over the last 5 years or so and last year they were in the upper half of the league in attedance so perhaps they are carving out a nice niche in the market.

Not sure why Ottawa is holding up Gatinue as an example they love all things hockey. Last year the team averaged 2701 which was less than 250 more than what the 'no one cares about' Mississauga OHL team grew. While we are talking about Ottawa area CHL teams I will say that the 67s draw very good crowds for a CHL team but their attedance has also seen a pretty significant decline over the past decade. I wonder if the apparent erosion in support for the OHL has anything to do with the Senetors now being around for a generation or two, becoming stable, and after some uncertain times their long term future in Ottawa being ensured.

And since others have brought up the topic... As far as support for Toronto's other sports team go I would say things are decent. The Jays attedance has been soft over the past 5 years or so but they are also now going on 2 decades without a post season appearance. The only other teams that have managed that are Pittsburgh and Kansas City. Given how bad the Raptors have been throughout their history there attendance has been pretty impressive. Same thing can be said about TFC. As far as the Argos go... Ya, there is some work to be done there. After doing some digging I should point out though that when they had a short run of being competitive in the middle to late of last decade they put up respectable numbers for the CFL.

2005 30,196
2006 29,677
2007 30,931
2008 29,189

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:58 AM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
Gee, try telling that to Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary. They care. Granted, it's not the same situation than Toronto-which is Leafs obsessed, and doesn't care about much else. (More so this year, since both sides in the lockout have decided to act like little brats rather than grown men.)
You're right its not the same thing.

There is a fair swath of City residents who have a pathological dislike
to going to the 905, hell downtowners don't like going to Etobicoke
or Scarborough. There are no OHL teams in the 416.

Brampton is far from Downtown, not far from Martingrove/Steeles.
I remember the Majors did get press when they played at Bathurst/St.Clair.

...and still the GTHL has record numbers.

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Old
11-14-2012, 10:58 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
LMAO. okay then.
Brampton is filled with immigrants mostly and not to mention among the "desi" or immigrant families, they tend to pick up some sports such as basketball or soccer for the MLS than hockey. True story, surrounded by brown people while being the main brown boy into hockey.
Brampton is newfoundland 2.0, can we lump them into the immigrant category?

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Hello Canada and hockey fans in the United States, and Newfoundland

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:08 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
Brampton is newfoundland 2.0, can we lump them into the immigrant category?
I call Oshawa, Botwood West

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:11 AM
  #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
So you agree that Ottawa is a hockey town and Toronto isn't.

No traffic? Speaking of ignorance.

The biggest thing that the Senators have going against them is the location of their arena.

It's at the extreme Western edge of the city, meaning that everyone has to go West to get there, on a 3/2 lane highway.

But I'm glad to finally see sympathy from a Leaf fan on how commutes can have an impact on attendance.

It's 26 km from downtown to the arena, but when I lived in Orleans, it was 38.3 km.

The Sens haven't folded yet though.
What's funny is that in 2007-2008, Ottawa outdrew the Leafs.

3 Ottawa 41 812,665 19,821 107.1
5 Toronto 41 796,803 19,434 103.4

Even last season (2011-2012):

5 Toronto 41 799,786 19,506 103.7 41
6 Ottawa 41 793,612 19,356 101.1 41

OMG! It must be all those Leaf fans coming to ALL of our home games.

At the same time, Ottawa is also supporting two junior teams. And that's with 1/5 or 1/6 of the population.

But you guys keep believing whatever it is they tell you in that media bubble known as the GTA.
I never said Ottawa wasnt a hockey town, im saying that you cant argue that because they support more hockey teams they are a better hockey city as the teams have absolutely no competition but OTHER hockey teams. Ive been to plent Mississauga games, go about once a month (my uncle always gets tickets), so i am one of the junior supporters, yet would still much rather watch a CFL, NBA or MLB game. Expect to see a drop in junior attendance when the CFL comes to Ottawa.

I meant traffic in the city. There is no major city congestion that is in many other cities, so much of the population has a vehicle, while the majority of Toronto rely on bikes and public transportation, its much harder to commute without a car. Ill agree though traffic around the Scotiabank place in disgusting.

You still havent given a valid reason why the distance between Brampton and Missisauga arenas have not split the target demographic. How the 6 km distance between them does not create competition for fans between the two teams splitting the local fans into 2? Expect an increase of Mississauga attendance with a fold in Brampton.

Scotiabank place has a larger capacity than the ACC, so its easy to outdraw them. ACC however, is always sold out even with its ridiculously high prices for tickets.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:14 AM
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
I never said Ottawa wasnt a hockey town, im saying that you cant argue that because they support more hockey teams they are a better hockey city as the teams have absolutely no competition but OTHER hockey teams. Ive been to plent Mississauga games, go about once a month (my uncle always gets tickets), so i am one of the junior supporters, yet would still much rather watch a CFL, NBA or MLB game. Expect to see a drop in junior attendance when the CFL comes to Ottawa.

I meant traffic in the city. There is no major city congestion that is in many other cities, so much of the population has a vehicle, while the majority of Toronto rely on bikes and public transportation, its much harder to commute without a car. Ill agree though traffic around the Scotiabank place in disgusting.

You still havent given a valid reason why the distance between Brampton and Missisauga arenas have not split the target demographic. How the 6 km distance between them does not create competition for fans between the two teams splitting the local fans into 2? Expect an increase of Mississauga attendance with a fold in Brampton.

Scotiabank place has a larger capacity than the ACC, so its easy to outdraw them. ACC however, is always sold out even with its ridiculously high prices for tickets.
Exactly, this is not black and white.

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Old
11-14-2012, 11:16 AM
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
I dunno... How does one even define 'hockey city' anyway?

When it comes to watching and following hockey I think it is fair to say sports/hockey fans in Toronto are pretty NHL, but not just Leafs, focused. There also doesn't appear to be much of a market for the OHL/CHL in the GTA (although it does very well in cities within an hour or so of Toronto), but the Marlies attendance has been climbing over the last 5 years or so and last year they were in the upper half of the league in attedance so perhaps they are carving out a nice niche in the market.

Not sure why Ottawa is holding up Gatinue as an example they love all things hockey. Last year the team averaged 2701 which was less than 250 more than what the 'no one cares about' Mississauga OHL team grew. While we are talking about Ottawa area CHL teams I will say that the 67s draw very good crowds for a CHL team but their attedance has also seen a pretty significant decline over the past decade. I wonder if the apparent erosion in support for the OHL has anything to do with the Senetors now being around for a generation or two, becoming stable, and after some uncertain times their long term future in Ottawa being ensured.

And since others have brought up the topic... As far as support for Toronto's other sports team go I would say things are decent. The Jays attedance has been soft over the past 5 years or so but they are also now going on 2 decades without a post season appearance. The only other teams that have managed that are Pittsburgh and Kansas City. Given how bad the Raptors have been throughout their history there attendance has been pretty impressive. Same thing can be said about TFC. As far as the Argos go... Ya, there is some work to be done there. After doing some digging I should point out though that when they had a short run of being competitive in the middle to late of last decade they put up respectable numbers for the CFL.

2005 30,196
2006 29,677
2007 30,931
2008 29,189
Honestly the argos dont even go to games. They watch on the TV. They have high tv ratings but CFL is just like NHL, gate driven, so the $$$ comes in the seats and they fall short there.

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Old
11-14-2012, 12:26 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Honestly the argos dont even go to games. They watch on the TV. They have high tv ratings but CFL is just like NHL, gate driven, so the $$$ comes in the seats and they fall short there.
Not really the point of my post but ummm... OK.

The last time the team strung together a couple of good season they drew crowds, that when compared to the rest of the league, were decent. Whether their attedance allows them to pay the bills or not is another even more off topic subject.


Last edited by CoolForumNamePending: 11-14-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old
11-14-2012, 12:33 PM
  #384
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I have a little soft spot for Battalion, their logo and uniform are up there with the best in the game.

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Old
12-27-2012, 12:48 PM
  #385
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Sold out ACC for an AHL game.

http://www.marlies.ca/news/news.asp?story_id=2483
Quote:
A sold out crowd of 18,800 marked the largest crowd ever for an indoor AHL game in Canada.
Guess Toronto is still not a hockey market.

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Old
12-27-2012, 12:52 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Sold out ACC for an AHL game.

Guess Toronto is still not a hockey market.
Having read through this, and looking at it through my own lens (the fragmented nature of the GTA without a unified junior hockey following), I think I could compare it to Ohio and football. High school games are packed, NFL games are packed, and OSU games are packed. But the smaller colleges (the MAC, plus Cincinnati) are not packed.

Would the last part "prove" that Ohio isn't a football state?

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Old
12-27-2012, 01:48 PM
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Having read through this, and looking at it through my own lens (the fragmented nature of the GTA without a unified junior hockey following), I think I could compare it to Ohio and football. High school games are packed, NFL games are packed, and OSU games are packed. But the smaller colleges (the MAC, plus Cincinnati) are not packed.

Would the last part "prove" that Ohio isn't a football state?
Ask the OP, who doesn't actually have an answer for you, just wanted to start a "debate"

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Old
12-27-2012, 01:51 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Ask the OP, who doesn't actually have an answer for you, just wanted to start a "debate"
OP just seems to resent anything that is Toronto

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Old
12-27-2012, 01:52 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Sold out ACC for an AHL game.

http://www.marlies.ca/news/news.asp?story_id=2483


Guess Toronto is still not a hockey market.
Mostly Hab fans.

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Old
12-27-2012, 03:15 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by colchar View Post
First, Brampton is not Toronto. Second, the population of Brampton these days is largely made up of people from non-hockey cultures. Third, their rink was in a lousy location for traffic.
Where have I heard this before?

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Old
12-27-2012, 03:43 PM
  #391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woll Smoth View Post
Sold out ACC for an AHL game.

http://www.marlies.ca/news/news.asp?story_id=2483


Guess Toronto is still not a hockey market.
Was there a campaign to get people to the game or did this happen "naturally"?

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Old
12-27-2012, 03:44 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
I think one of the points they missed is that Toronto doesn't just have a major hockey team. They have a team in Baseball, Basketball, CFL, Soccer and an AHL team in the very same city.

No other canadian hockey team has a team in as many major sports so the people who live in Toronto have a wider range of selection which spreads the population. If your not a die hard Leaf fan and are tired of them losing, it's really easy to choose another sport instead of following a lower tier hockey league like Brampton is in.

If Toronto just had an NHL Hockey team then I think Brampton would have done a lot better.
The same can be said about Miami.

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Old
12-27-2012, 04:36 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Was there a campaign to get people to the game or did this happen "naturally"?
What do you mean by campaign?

The site advertised the game being hosted in the ACC which they would need to dp since that's not where the Marlies normally play. All ticket options were the same as you would get for a Marlies game at Ricoh Coliseum (at least that's what I saw when I was looking up tickets in case I could make it out there on the day). There wasn't anything different that was done. It was treated like a normal Marlies game except at a bigger arena.

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Old
12-27-2012, 04:48 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
Was there a campaign to get people to the game or did this happen "naturally"?
No campaign, people just went

And BTW Toronto=fantastic NBA city. Great attendance for a terrible team.


Last edited by RogerRoeper*: 12-27-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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Old
12-27-2012, 05:11 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Ask the OP, who doesn't actually have an answer for you, just wanted to start a "debate"
OP didn't claim anything, he just posted an article with that headline. The author of the article needs a lesson in logic and reasoning or he was just making a boisterous claim for page hits. The fact that the Battalion relocated out of Bramton shows that GTA might not be an OHL town anymore. Nothing more.

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Old
12-28-2012, 03:55 PM
  #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Senators Fan View Post
Mostly Hab fans.
Who didn't sell out there own area for a game at CB/BC.

Then they weren't playing the Marlies.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:50 AM
  #397
Dirty Dan
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Im a brown dude from brampton and there are certain parts of the city here where us brown dudes will be the only ones you see playing hockey. All the non white demographics follow NBA first

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:27 AM
  #398
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Mississauga is still mostly whites. Brampton on the other hand is not.
And plus, no one cares about juniors when you have a NHL team.
Vancouver Giants: 7000/game
Edmonton Oil Kings: 6500/game
Calgary Hitmen: 9000/game
Ottawa 67s: 6500/game

Brampton: 2000/game
Mississauga: 2500/game

That is actually pretty shocking for the size of those markets...

Race shouldn't make any difference.
I can't speak for where the Oil Kings and the Hitmen play but here in Vancouver the Giants play out of the old pacific coliseum in east van which is a vast Chinese neighborhood.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:46 AM
  #399
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Im a brown dude from brampton and there are certain parts of the city here where us brown dudes will be the only ones you see playing hockey. All the non white demographics follow NBA first
Most of the brown people I know in the Vancouver area are huge hockey fans. Infact they're probably some of the loudest and rowdiest fans of the sport here but maybe Brampton immigrants are different than the ones in say Surrey because this thing about immigrants not liking hockey certainly doesn't apply to metro Vancouver.


Last edited by VanCanucks14: 12-29-2012 at 06:53 AM.
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Old
12-29-2012, 07:02 AM
  #400
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Move the Leafs to Tulsa where they'll be appreciated.

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