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Mark Scheifele for Phil Kessel

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:46 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Toronto has been in win now for years now.

Some fans are starting to accept that we cant win unless we fall back and regroup.
Gotta get rid of Burke if Leaf management sincerely wants to patiently build a winner. Something Burke has admitted he's not willing to do.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:16 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Gotta get rid of Burke if Leaf management sincerely wants to patiently build a winner. Something Burke has admitted he's not willing to do.
Already had to fire his star coach. Burke will be next and based on the makeup of the team as it is I expect he will be gone soon.

He has failed Toronto and severely set the team back will behind where they could have been.

Could have been a last placed team with a bright future rather than a last placed team with little future.

For fans like me I would trade Kessel in an instant to get multiple prospects (Scheifle and Trouba)

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12-29-2012, 06:21 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Toronto has been in win now for years now.

Some fans are starting to accept that we cant win unless we fall back and regroup.
Fall back and regroup? What does that even mean?

It surely doesn't mean trading away our 25 year old top 6 scorer for a prospect and a pick or two.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:25 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Fall back and regroup? What does that even mean?

It surely doesn't mean trading away our 25 year old top 6 scorer for a prospect and a pick or two.
Yes it means losing with a purpose (to get better in the future) rather than staying terrible with Phil Kessel on the team and risking he will leave for free agency because players dont like losing just as much as fans dont

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12-29-2012, 06:38 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes it means losing with a purpose (to get better in the future) rather than staying terrible with Phil Kessel on the team and risking he will leave for free agency because players dont like losing just as much as fans dont
Well, losing him to free agency is a different situation entirely. Losing with a purpose? What is the difference between picking high with Kessel on the team and picking high because we've traded him away? I'd say getting Morgan Rielly was a pretty good step for the future, wasn't it?

The team will not be any better off making this trade. You just think it will because you have Mystery Box Syndrome.

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12-29-2012, 06:42 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Well, losing him to free agency is a different situation entirely. Losing with a purpose? What is the difference between picking high with Kessel on the team and picking high because we've traded him away? I'd say getting Morgan Rielly was a pretty good step for the future, wasn't it?

The team will not be any better off making this trade. You just think it will because you have Mystery Box Syndrome.
Ive heard and read that mystery box crap on here when the leafs traded for kessel from leafs fans. guess what. all of you were wrong.

Getting two nice prospects and a pick would be great for our future because we get those prospects and then without a "TOP 6 SCORER" we would get Nathan Mackinnon Seth Jones or the Yakupovs of the world

Because without a top 6 scorer we would do worse right?

Use your head and not your heart. THe only reason you like Kessel is becuase your a stubborn Leafs fan who wants to "win now" but since the team and GM sucks we wont and players will leave because they are dismayed by the stupid managers running the team into the ground every season.


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Old
12-29-2012, 06:52 AM
  #82
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I remember when people never wanted to trade Kaberle either because he was our best and most valuable player and we needed him later to win.

That never happened and we held on to him too long and got Joe Colborne instead of Jeff Carter or Phil Kessel (lol).

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:05 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Scheifle , Trouba, and a 2nd
If I were the Jets, given their organizational needs, I'd decline. The prospect cupboards are already bare: removing the two top prospects would kill any chance of moving forward in the standings in 2-3 years.

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12-29-2012, 07:07 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
If I were the Jets, given their organizational needs, I'd decline. The prospect cupboards are already bare: removing the two top prospects would kill any chance of moving forward in the standings in 2-3 years.
Kessel and Kadri.

You get an elite scorer on the team that should help you and you get a former first round prospect back in the deal who should be able to score as well?

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12-29-2012, 07:20 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
Well, losing him to free agency is a different situation entirely. Losing with a purpose? What is the difference between picking high with Kessel on the team and picking high because we've traded him away? I'd say getting Morgan Rielly was a pretty good step for the future, wasn't it?

The team will not be any better off making this trade. You just think it will because you have Mystery Box Syndrome.
Kessel has a year left on his current contract, after this shorten season. Trading him for assets and starting over is the wise thing to do. Think long term.

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12-29-2012, 07:24 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Ive heard and read that mystery box crap on here when the leafs traded for kessel from leafs fans. guess what. all of you were wrong.

Getting two nice prospects and a pick would be great for our future because we get those prospects and then without a "TOP 6 SCORER" we would get Nathan Mackinnon Seth Jones or the Yakupovs of the world

Because without a top 6 scorer we would do worse right?

Use your head and not your heart. THe only reason you like Kessel is becuase your a stubborn Leafs fan who wants to "win now" but since the team and GM sucks we wont and players will leave because they are dismayed by the stupid managers running the team into the ground every season.
Trading Kessel for a good young prospect and a few high picks is the smart thing to do, but you won't get that from Winnipeg like the OP is suggesting. Maybe from a contending team looking to get over the hump.

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12-29-2012, 07:24 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I'm not going to pretend I know what Winnipeg needs, but I know what the Leafs need. Let's take a look at this potential deal up close by comparing the two main pieces.

Mark Scheifele is a 6'3 centre who brings size and skill to the table, something they obviously seem to lack in Winnipeg's prospect pool. He utilizes a combination of size, speed, smarts, skill, and vision. Playing against the best centers in the OHL every game, he seems to be learning quickly. Although playing in a losing environment on his current team, he most definitely is putting up some nice numbers.

Phil Kessel on the other hand, is proven. We all know this. Kessel is a marvel to watch. He combines dazzling moves with excellent hockey sense, tremendous poise and confidence with the puck, a tireless work ethic, and a very professional approach to the game. Kessel is a player who can make those around him better and has the ability to make things happen. His excellent hockey sense can assure you he won't be caught in the wrong position enabling him to be the recipient of a big, injuring hit (Hello 70-82 game seasons for the club). One attribute that immediately jumps out about Kessel is his extraordinary skating ability. His explosive speed and effortless strides are what set him apart from just about every other player in the nation. Another characteristic that makes Kessel such a highly-regarded player is the way he thinks the game. He is immensely smart and contains great vision. He has shown that he can read and anticipate plays quite well. Furthermore, he is very good at finding open spaces on the ice, knows just where the developing play is going, and where he needs to be.

Usually lost in this solely "high offensive firepower shooter" from mostly other peoples perspective, is his passing ability. He is a superb and extremely creative playmaker. He makes outstanding tape-to-tape passes and has little trouble finding open passing lanes. He has also demonstrated a keen sense of making the right decisions with the puck.

Fortunately for me, I don't put as much weight in the proven section as most would, I understand players by watching them, reading their personality types and whether or not the young prospect being targeted will thrive and learn to fulfill his draft pedigree. I truly believe Mark will.

On another note, I don't believe he will ever surpass Kessel's point totals. I look at the overall grand theme of things, the team. The Leafs need a centre of his caliber more than Kessel's elite offensive play on the wing. It's what I believe would benefit us with wins in the long run through overall team Chemistry.

And so, Winnipeg Jets GM's, I ask you, what are your thoughts on this proposal:

Mark Scheifele
2nd round draft pick 2013
1st round draft pick 2014

-For-

Phil Kessel

Keep in mind I put some EFFORT in, please do the same if you'd like to reply.

Keep in mind, I am weighing heavily on perry joining us.
Kessel is a gifted offensive player. . . He does not make players around him better though. . . imho, thats mainly the reason we can't find a centre who meshes well with him.

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12-29-2012, 07:29 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I explained it. Reading comprehension I think is what it's called. You're losing a few points of productions, quite possibly around 25-30 for the first little while, but it makes us a better team in my mind when we get our other wings in the system. Perry is also my target.
Its a bad proposal when the other team is wondering what you are smoking

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12-29-2012, 07:29 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
makes no sense. Leafs are in win-now mode. Burke's job is on the line. He's not trading away his only 1st-liner for futures, as good as a prospect Scheifele is
Win what, The lottery?

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12-29-2012, 07:32 AM
  #90
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Because Scheifele is the guy i'm targeting. He will be a factor in the NHL also. It's not a toss in the air if you know what you're looking at when analyzing a player.
Im kindof unsure that you know what you're talking about.

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12-29-2012, 07:38 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Win what, The lottery?
others were thinking it, but no one said it yet.

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12-29-2012, 07:38 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Good Post Drydenwasthebest.

Kessel is worth more than Scheifele right now. I'm a fan of Scheifele and can see that the Jets would make the original offer.

But like Dryden says, in no way do the Jets add in the pieces necessary to make the deal. The Jets need to build around players like Scheifele, as well as the draft picks / other players that would be needed to make this deal happen.

In regards to other offers, Scheifele + Kane, or Scheifele + Bogosian, or Scheifele + Ladd are all overpayments on Winnipeg's end for Kessel. Both Richards and Carter (from Philly), returned less, and are both better than Kessel.



Can't see the Jets doing that either to be honest.
To be fair it's annoying when people use this comparison on the board. Both Richards and Carter were traded from Philly for a vastly subpar return. This was done quickly to make a point, and is regarded as such.

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12-29-2012, 07:59 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Already had to fire his star coach. Burke will be next and based on the makeup of the team as it is I expect he will be gone soon.

He has failed Toronto and severely set the team back will behind where they could have been.

Could have been a last placed team with a bright future rather than a last placed team with little future.

For fans like me I would trade Kessel in an instant to get multiple prospects (Scheifle and Trouba)
Honestly most of Burke's trades made the team better in the long run (minus kessel). JFJ left the cupboards bare when he was pushed out. Not Burke or any GM in the league could've built a winner from that.

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12-29-2012, 08:30 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
Keep in mind, I am weighing heavily on perry joining us. That should make more sense for everybody.
And what makes you think that will happen? We haven't made the playoffs in 7 years we aren't a prime destination for FA's. Also why would anyone sign with a team that just traded their best player for picks and prospects.

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12-29-2012, 08:34 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
Trading Kessel for a good young prospect and a few high picks is the smart thing to do, but you won't get that from Winnipeg like the OP is suggesting. Maybe from a contending team looking to get over the hump.
Just my opinion of course but I think getting Phil Kessel on a new contract would bode well for the Jets who I think are closer than everyone would like to admit.

They have really nice pieces on that team and plenty of upside.

And after all: Phil is a Jets fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnDS9pp8Bo8

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12-29-2012, 08:35 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
To be fair it's annoying when people use this comparison on the board. Both Richards and Carter were traded from Philly for a vastly subpar return. This was done quickly to make a point, and is regarded as such.
I dont buy that.

A gm would be remiss in their job to not seek the best possible return for their players.

Both players got the max that they could have.

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12-29-2012, 08:37 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by CreeksideStrangler View Post
Honestly most of Burke's trades made the team better in the long run (minus kessel). JFJ left the cupboards bare when he was pushed out. Not Burke or any GM in the league could've built a winner from that.
I don't buy that either.

The team has sunk lower than ever before with Burke and its been costing the team key picks and prospects.

You can point to just as many good pieces leaving Toronto as coming in and this is reflected in their yearly results (near the bottom of the league)

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:30 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Kessel and Kadri.

You get an elite scorer on the team that should help you and you get a former first round prospect back in the deal who should be able to score as well?
Would not move naz.

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12-29-2012, 09:31 AM
  #99
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Would not move naz.
But to get Scheifle, Trouba, and a 2nd I probably would.

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12-29-2012, 09:31 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by CanuckistanFlyerfan View Post
Win what, The lottery?
i love how you pick apart one part of the post. Yes, Leafs need to make the playoffs next year or Burke is canned. He knows it. Everyone knows it. Which is the point i was alluding to: makes no sense to trade Kessel, his only legit top liner

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