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IIHF reffing is a joke MOD WARNING: Post 144

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:46 AM
  #451
ODAAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Except he did look up ice to see what was coming, watch the video again, I already posted this a few pages ago but obviously it needs saying again. In the slow motion replay he clearly turns his head and looks left, then right, then goes to play the puck. When he looks left, you can see in the view of the full ice that Camara was turning towards the boards and looks like he is going to transition, he was not forechecking in a straight line towards him.
And still did nothing to protect himself???

Sorry, don`t see the "look" here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAqBskjxA7c

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12-29-2012, 07:47 AM
  #452
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
And still did nothing to protect himself???

Sorry, don`t see the "look" here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAqBskjxA7c
You must be blind he does it at exactly 30 seconds

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12-29-2012, 07:48 AM
  #453
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
I see another analogy. Camara as driver fall asleep ( in Canadian standards of play) and Luza was first time behind driving-wheel. Who is blame in this accident?
Forget my last question to you. I do not want to get involved with anyone using thought processes like you are.

Worst. ****ing. Analogy. Ever.

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Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
That's a terrible analogy. Camara was driving fine and Luza started crossing the street like a cocky pedestrian without looking and got run over.
Great post. Thank you for taking the time to digest that for us all.

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12-29-2012, 07:53 AM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
You must be blind he does it at exactly 30 seconds
Thx for the vision tip, you explain to me then had he looked why he did nothing to protect himself, the kid lifts his head for a millisecond, looks nowhere other than directly in front of him otherwise, no sane individual would have done what he did to prepare himself for a check

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12-29-2012, 07:57 AM
  #455
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Thx for the vision tip, you explain to me then had he looked why he did nothing to protect himself, the kid lifts his head for a millisecond, looks nowhere other than directly in front of him otherwise, no sane individual would have done what he did to prepare himself for a check
I already said, Camara is turning towards the boards, at that point he isn't really forechecking, then when Luza looks back at the puck Camara changes direction.

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12-29-2012, 08:00 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
I already said, Camara is turning towards the boards, at that point he isn't really forechecking, then when Luza looks back at the puck Camara changes direction.
Ok then, if u insist

Teammates are also there to communicate things, and still, the kid stays the course, and gets rocked with a 100% clean hit and I`d say the same had it been Camara on the receiving end, keep your head up, be aware, and prepare, the kid did none of those things

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12-29-2012, 08:02 AM
  #457
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Let's say a player trips and goes flying into the goalie and his skate slices open the goalie's throat (happened before). Should that player be penalized for cutting open the goalie in what amounts to a very very serious, potentially life threatening injury? Based on what you just said, you would be in favour of that, and that's absolutely absurd.
What a sad question, man. Why i have to be interested about penalty, when there is battle for his alive. Is the game more important, than life of players for you?

What about punishing dangerous play preventively, to keep feeling that battles are not so wild. Obviously that accidents in this style can happen...

But many of concussions can be canceled by smarter play. I like smart game at first place in hockey, than the aggresivity at first.

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12-29-2012, 08:07 AM
  #458
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Ok then, if u insist

Teammates are also there to communicate things, and still, the kid stays the course, and gets rocked with a 100% clean hit and I`d say the same had it been Camara on the receiving end, keep your head up, be aware, and prepare, the kid did none of those things
But he does, he clearly looks around to see if anyone is coming, at that point Camara is not coming. He only puts his head down for a split second to collect the puck, it is difficult to pick up a loose puck from the boards without looking at it. As soon as he has control he looks up, and that's the exact moment he is hit, so contact to the head cannot be blamed on "he had his head down" because when the contact was made, it wasn't down. The injury was just made worse because he had no chance to brace himself, and in my opinion, as a neutral having explained my reasoning, I don't believe he is entirely at fault.

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12-29-2012, 08:09 AM
  #459
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Kid gets caught with a clean hit because he had his head down and soooo many keep trying to find something else wrong.

I guess it's just too hard for some to accept the fact that it's Luza's fault he got hurt. Once he gets playing again, I'm sure his coach's will remind him of this incident.

Camara is the same size as he is. What happens when he enters a men's league and there are even bigger checkers coming down the boards at him?

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12-29-2012, 08:11 AM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
But he does, he clearly looks around to see if anyone is coming, at that point Camara is not coming. He only puts his head down for a split second to collect the puck, it is difficult to pick up a loose puck from the boards without looking at it. As soon as he has control he looks up, and that's the exact moment he is hit
Sorry my friend, we wholeheartedly see this completely different. The first three lessons I was taught when I began playing was

A- keep your head up at all times

B- keep your stick on the ice

C- Be aware of your surroundings

The kid did none of these things and to say that there was much difficulty picking up that puck along the boards is incorrect, all he needed to do was have his stick down, it wasn`t like the puck was flying around the boards, and while his stick was down, have his head up, and he could have reacted.

Another question we could ask, if we were to defend your side was did the goalie or any teammates give him any warning???? Sure doesn`t appear so, and that too, is another early coaching lesson I was given, communicate on the ice

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12-29-2012, 08:16 AM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Sorry my friend, we wholeheartedly see this completely different. The first three lessons I was taught when I began playing was

A- keep your head up at all times

B- keep your stick on the ice

C- Be aware of your surroundings

The kid did none of these things and to say that there was much difficulty picking up that puck along the boards is incorrect, all he needed to do was have his stick down, it wasn`t like the puck was flying around the boards, and while his stick was down, have his head up, and he could have reacted.

Another question we could ask, if we were to defend your side was did the goalie or any teammates give him any warning???? Sure doesn`t appear so, and that too, is another early coaching lesson I was given, communicate on the ice
But it is impossible to keep your head up 100% of the time, especially for guys who are not elite.

We can't tell if the goalie or anyone else shouted to him because we can't hear anything in the video but you are probably right that they didn't. Goalie should have communicated, but that is his fault, not Luza's. Which I think further supports my argument because he thought it was safe to look down at the puck, at this level you expect the goalie to communicate every time.

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12-29-2012, 08:21 AM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
But it is impossible to keep your head up 100% of the time, especially for guys who are not elite.

We can't tell if the goalie or anyone else shouted to him because we can't hear anything in the video but you are probably right that they didn't. Goalie should have communicated, but that is his fault, not Luza's
Sorry, your arguement lost all validity with that statement. While Slovakia may not have the well known/household names of top 10 draft eligible kids, THEY are the elite of that country, and again, EVERY player, when starting out, I will almost guarantee is told on day 1 KEEP YOUR HEAD UP

Your right, head can`t be up at every moment, but when playing the puck, as we all saw, it bloody better be

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12-29-2012, 08:25 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
Sorry, your arguement lost all validity with that statement. While Slovakia may not have the well known/household names of top 10 draft eligible kids, THEY are the elite of that country, and again, EVERY player, when starting out, I will almost guarantee is told on day 1 KEEP YOUR HEAD UP

Your right, head can`t be up at every moment, but when playing the puck, as we all saw, it bloody better be
So I lose all validity by saying head can't be up 100% of the time, but you agree that the head can't be up 100% of the time?

ok then

Just because they are told to do it, it doesn't mean they can.

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12-29-2012, 08:26 AM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
What a sad question, man. Why i have to be interested about penalty, when there is battle for his alive. Is the game more important, than life of players for you?

What about punishing dangerous play preventively, to keep feeling that battles are not so wild. Obviously that accidents in this style can happen...

But many of concussions can be canceled by smarter play. I like smart game at first place in hockey, than the aggresivity at first.
You are on your own. The majority here see it as a clean hit. The IIHF sees it as a clean hit. Your continued ranting on this subject is getting tedious.

Clean hit! You should be concentrating your efforts on teaching kids proper hockey basics, and stop wasting your time convincing a massive majority that YOU are right, and WE are all wrong.

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12-29-2012, 08:32 AM
  #465
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Just because the IIHF didn't give the hit any supplementary discipline doesn't mean that they saw it as clean. It could just be that they saw the 5+game tariff was enough.

Slashing is a two minute minor but that doesn't make it legal.

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12-29-2012, 08:32 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
So I lose all validity by saying head can't be up 100% of the time, but you agree that the head can't be up 100% of the time?

ok then

Just because they are told to do it, it doesn't mean they can.
You lost it when you said that these kids aren`t "elite". Perhaps not elite by NHL standards, but these are the best of the best representing their country, and sorry, you do NOT have to be an elite player to keep your head up, that`s hockey 1.0

Not sure what your still stuck on, the IIHF has clearly no issue with the hit yet you still seem to think there`s a problem there??

I totally agreed with Jenner and Lipon`s suspensions, unnecessary and stupid plays, Camara`s was clean, top to bottom, the refs gave him the boot because the kid was lying flat on his back hurt, had he gotten up....betcha it would have been a different story

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12-29-2012, 08:36 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Tatanik View Post
Just because the IIHF didn't give the hit any supplementary discipline doesn't mean that they saw it as clean. It could just be that they saw the 5+game tariff was enough.

Slashing is a two minute minor but that doesn't make it legal.
Sorry, pretty sure that isn`t what or how they make their decisions. The Jenner and Lipon hit were clearly unnecessary and punishable plays, the Camara hit was clean, THAT, IMO, is/was why no discipline handed out

The IIHF hardly has the reputation as one that goes light or ignores anything

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12-29-2012, 08:37 AM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
You lost it when you said that these kids aren`t "elite". Perhaps not elite by NHL standards, but these are the best of the best representing their country, and sorry, you do NOT have to be an elite player to keep your head up, that`s hockey 1.0

Not sure what your still stuck on, the IIHF has clearly no issue with the hit yet you still seem to think there`s a problem there??

I totally agreed with Jenner and Lipon`s suspensions, unnecessary and stupid plays, Camara`s was clean, top to bottom, the refs gave him the boot because the kid was lying flat on his back hurt, had he gotten up....betcha it would have been a different story
They may be the elite of their country, but you can guarantee they have never played against the likes of those Canadian forecheckers, whose hitting style is hit the player first, and then think about the puck, rather than go for the puck and take the body in the process.

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12-29-2012, 08:39 AM
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
You lost it when you said that these kids aren`t "elite". Perhaps not elite by NHL standards, but these are the best of the best representing their country, and sorry, you do NOT have to be an elite player to keep your head up, that`s hockey 1.0

Not sure what your still stuck on, the IIHF has clearly no issue with the hit yet you still seem to think there`s a problem there??

I totally agreed with Jenner and Lipon`s suspensions, unnecessary and stupid plays, Camara`s was clean, top to bottom, the refs gave him the boot because the kid was lying flat on his back hurt, had he gotten up....betcha it would have been a different story
Maybe we have different definitions of elite, the NHL is elite, top KHL players are elite, these are kids and they are not.

As someone else just said, just because there was no suspension it doesn't mean it was clean. They felt a 5+game was enough, which is also my opinion. I think it is marginal, it looks like the shoulder made first contact with the head but it is difficult to tell.

Even if he had got up, I still think they would have given a 2+10. I would have probably given a 2+10 in the interest of game management, as I explained in another one of my posts, but it is a shame the rules do not allow the discretion, if it's an injury you have to give the 5+game which is annoying.

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12-29-2012, 08:41 AM
  #470
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Maybe we have different definitions of elite, the NHL is elite, top KHL players are elite, these are kids and they are not.

As someone else just said, just because there was no suspension it doesn't mean it was clean. They felt a 5+game was enough, which is also my opinion. I think it is marginal, it looks like the shoulder made first contact with the head but it is difficult to tell.

Even if he had got up, I still think they would have given a 2+10
These kids are THE Elite of this age category representing their countries, are they elite in comparison to a Crosby??? Nope, but to say they aren`t elite teenagers is inaccurate

And I`ll repeat it, the IIHF has NEVER been a body that let`s anyone off the hook

Ok, I`m gone, keep arguing, enjoy the Tournament

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12-29-2012, 08:43 AM
  #471
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
You lost it when you said that these kids aren`t "elite". Perhaps not elite by NHL standards, but these are the best of the best representing their country, and sorry, you do NOT have to be an elite player to keep your head up, that`s hockey 1.0

Not sure what your still stuck on, the IIHF has clearly no issue with the hit yet you still seem to think there`s a problem there??

I totally agreed with Jenner and Lipon`s suspensions, unnecessary and stupid plays, Camara`s was clean, top to bottom, the refs gave him the boot because the kid was lying flat on his back hurt, had he gotten up....betcha it would have been a different story
because I do not agree that even when it was clean hit by NHL standards. I think that there was a deliberate intent to injure an opponent.

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12-29-2012, 08:44 AM
  #472
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Originally Posted by Jeez View Post
because I do not agree that even when it was clean hit by NHL standards. I think that there was a deliberate intent to injure an opponent.
Sorry but they took "intent to injure" out of the rulebook years ago

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12-29-2012, 08:46 AM
  #473
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
So I lose all validity by saying head can't be up 100% of the time, but you agree that the head can't be up 100% of the time?

ok then

Just because they are told to do it, it doesn't mean they can.
As the IIHF has already claimed that the Camara hit is legal, your opinion as an IIHF referree complaining about whether a head was up or down is irrelevant. I am actually having doubts you are a ref at all as you seem to not grasp what the term "game management" means. BTW when a ref makes a call that he/she does not see with their own eyes, they are not doing their job properly. Only terrible refs (like yourself it seems) make calls that they don't see. Ever wonder why they put in two refs?

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12-29-2012, 08:48 AM
  #474
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Not very happy with the refereeing today. I don't mind the rules as long as they refs are consistent in following them, which they were not today.

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12-29-2012, 08:50 AM
  #475
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Originally Posted by professorchaos View Post
As the IIHF has already claimed that the Camara hit is legal, your opinion as an IIHF referree complaining about whether a head was up or down is irrelevant. I am actually having doubts you are a ref at all as you seem to not grasp what the term "game management" means. BTW when a ref makes a call that he/she does not see with their own eyes, they are not doing their job properly. Only terrible refs (like yourself it seems) make calls that they don't see. Ever wonder why they put in two refs?
Yes the head being up or down is irrelevant, we were having an entirely different discussion.

The ref did see it, he was about 5 feet away.

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