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Rumor: WPG/CJB swap for partial season before full realignment

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12-29-2012, 08:54 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Swap schedules... Columbus to southeast, Minnesota to Central, and Winnipeg to Northwest...
Colorado has made it clear they don't want to be in a division with 4 Canadian teams.

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12-29-2012, 09:36 AM
  #27
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IF this happens, it will be a tougher division for the Jets - but a much better travel schedule. I would be very supportive of this move, although can't wait for the real re-alignment, so the Jets can more often play their soon-to-be-rival Minnesota Wild!

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12-29-2012, 09:49 AM
  #28
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What claim? Detroit was there first.
If it's not on paper, it's not a promise. Deal.

Bad news: Preds lose the insta-win that is Columbus. They will have to find a way to beat up the Jets.

Good news: Columbus with their track record against the South-East, collection of 1sts and already arriving talent, they will become a playoff team.

Also, CBJ will be in the east so I won't feel bad about liking their collection of talent.

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12-29-2012, 10:49 AM
  #29
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I think I understand management's desire to lower travel costs, but why would CBJ fans be in favor of a move to the Eastern Conference, and SE Division? The Michigan/Ohio hate adds some spice right now, there's some rapport with the Nashville fans. Plus, the entire history has been with the western grouping.

I think I understand management's desire to lower travel costs, but why would DRW fans be in favor of a move to the Eastern Conference, and SE Division? The Detroit/Chicago/St. Louis hate adds some spice right now, there's some rapport with the Nashville fans. Plus, the entire history (way more than CBJ has) has been with the western grouping.

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Old
12-29-2012, 11:22 AM
  #30
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Regardless of whatever promises were made, Detroit isn't going to be moved out of the West when they're one of two major American draws in the entire conference.

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12-29-2012, 11:37 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Colorado has made it clear they don't want to be in a division with 4 Canadian teams.
Well unless we get a team in Seattle, that's just too bad. The only other option at the moment is San Jose, and that would kill the growing regional strength in California.

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12-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #32
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I was hoping to have one more season of the Jets in the SE, hoping they could somehow win the division. In fifty years I'd like to be explaining to my grandkids why there's a Southeast Division banner hanging in the MTS Centre.


m.

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12-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by TheDeuce View Post
I was hoping to have one more season of the Jets in the SE, hoping they could somehow win the division. In fifty years I'd like to be explaining to my grandkids why there's a Southeast Division banner hanging in the MTS Centre.


m.
50 years? In about 10 years, the Coyotes will be moved from Phoenix to Seattle, prompting Bettman to move the Jets to Phoenix in 2042 as his final act in the league.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Allegedly, you mean. Plus, Bettman could promise anything he wants, the Wings ownership should've been smart enough to know that the board members were the ones that would make the decision, and as a lot of Western teams like having Detroit as a reliable visiting draw and a lot of Eastern teams would probably prefer to keep another powerhouse out of their conference, no surprise that both sides would prefer Columbus get switched.

Not to mention that playing in the east would be majorly advantageous to the team's bottom line and help them float, whereas Detroit could be in the KHL and be just fine.
So Helen St James, member of the HHOF writers wing, is a bad source?

I do believe the (verbal) promise was made.

However, "times have changed" and that promise might be broken.

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12-29-2012, 01:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Samkow View Post
Minnesota to Southeast? Columbus to the Northwest?

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Are you kidding?
Cbus to the SE
Minny to the Central
Winnipeg to the Northwest

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12-29-2012, 01:23 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
So Helen St James, member of the HHOF writers wing, is a bad source?

I do believe the (verbal) promise was made.

However, "times have changed" and that promise might be broken.
Isn't Helen St James the Wings beat writer? She's not an HHOF writer.

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12-29-2012, 01:27 PM
  #37
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Isn't Helen St James the Wings beat writer? She's not an HHOF writer.
Yes, she is the Wings beat writer.

HHOF == she's in the writer's wing of the Hockey Hall of Fame

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12-29-2012, 01:38 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Swap schedules... Columbus to southeast, Minnesota to Central, and Winnipeg to Northwest...
YES this

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
During the 1967 expansion all the new teams were in the West and all of the O6 were in the East. They have done it before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_NHL_season
And to further that for the next expansion; Vancouver and Buffalo were added to the east (no thats not a typo, Vancouver was in the east at one time) and chicaco moved to the west. So the hawks have been the lone wolf.

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12-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
So Helen St James, member of the HHOF writers wing, is a bad source?

I do believe the (verbal) promise was made.

However, "times have changed" and that promise might be broken.
No, not saying that. I'm just saying that's it's not necessarily a concrete statement or absolutely true. Plenty of good reporters have been wrong, or only partially right, before, and this could be an example of that. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the Wings honestly thought that they promised realignment to the east and the league honestly thought that they only promised consideration. Wouldn't be the first time one or both sides misremembered a conversation.

Also, it bears repeating.... the Wings ownership should've been smart enough to know that a "promise" isn't binding unless there's a contractual obligation behind it. Or that Bettman could promise everything in the world, it doesn't matter if enough owners don't agree to go along with it.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Yes, and apparently there was a verbal "promise" to Detroit to go east, if ever there was a realignment.

But, Columbus is further east than Detroit. (As is Nashville, for that matter.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
So Helen St James, member of the HHOF writers wing, is a bad source?

I do believe the (verbal) promise was made.

However, "times have changed" and that promise might be broken.
Both sides (Columbus and Detroit) have claimed that they were promised first priority at moving over. No one from Detroit has actually claimed that they personally were told this by the NHL; the powers-that-be all say that it was told to someone else. Doug MacLean was with Columbus at the time, and he has said that he was told by the NHL that the CBJ would have priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugu View Post
I think I understand management's desire to lower travel costs, but why would CBJ fans be in favor of a move to the Eastern Conference, and SE Division? The Michigan/Ohio hate adds some spice right now, there's some rapport with the Nashville fans. Plus, the entire history has been with the western grouping.
Michigan/Ohio doesn't really add anything, to be honest. If the Red Wings had always been located in Indiana, the rivalry and loathing between the two sides would be the same as it is today.

None of us like Chicago, mostly because (locally, anyway) none of their fans existed before 2009. Since then, we've been swamped with bootlegs of Kane and Toews, worn by people who are "lifelong Hawks fans" who have never heard of Dirk Graham or Doug Wilson or Steve Larmer. I think there's a grudging respect for Nashville, and I can honestly see (with a CBJ move east) a lot of our fans adopting Nashville as their Western team of choice.

There's already plenty of acrimony between Columbus and the Eastern Conference. Pittsburgh goes without saying. There's actually a huge transplant population from western New York in Columbus, so there's a massive number of obnoxious Sabres fans. And then we can add in the fans of the eastern Canadian teams, who all think we shouldn't exist and remind us of that.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #42
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On a lighter/humorous note, I saw this at the top of the page when I conducted my search:




Of course, have you not read the lockout threads?


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Old
12-29-2012, 03:15 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Yes, she is the Wings beat writer.

HHOF == she's in the writer's wing of the Hockey Hall of Fame
Wrong Helen I think
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helene_Elliott

Helen St James is a solid beat writer. But she's not doing anything that will get her elected into the Hall anytime soon.

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12-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Both sides (Columbus and Detroit) have claimed that they were promised first priority at moving over. No one from Detroit has actually claimed that they personally were told this by the NHL; the powers-that-be all say that it was told to someone else. Doug MacLean was with Columbus at the time, and he has said that he was told by the NHL that the CBJ would have priority.



Michigan/Ohio doesn't really add anything, to be honest. If the Red Wings had always been located in Indiana, the rivalry and loathing between the two sides would be the same as it is today.

None of us like Chicago, mostly because (locally, anyway) none of their fans existed before 2009. Since then, we've been swamped with bootlegs of Kane and Toews, worn by people who are "lifelong Hawks fans" who have never heard of Dirk Graham or Doug Wilson or Steve Larmer. I think there's a grudging respect for Nashville, and I can honestly see (with a CBJ move east) a lot of our fans adopting Nashville as their Western team of choice.

There's already plenty of acrimony between Columbus and the Eastern Conference. Pittsburgh goes without saying. There's actually a huge transplant population from western New York in Columbus, so there's a massive number of obnoxious Sabres fans. And then we can add in the fans of the eastern Canadian teams, who all think we shouldn't exist and remind us of that.
I've made the trip down US 23 to Columbus a few times and I had high hopes for the BJs. Great arena. Nice jersey. Good arena district. You could stay in a hotel a stone's throw from the arena, go swimming at the hotel in the daytime, go to the market, check out a matinee at the theater and go to the game at night.

But my goodness... the ineptitude of this franchise is epic.
Name for me another industry that will allow a business to start and suck rotten eggs for 10 years and still be alive?

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12-29-2012, 03:24 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by LadyStanley View Post
Yes, she is the Wings beat writer.

HHOF == she's in the writer's wing of the Hockey Hall of Fame
No, she isn't.

Maybe she's being confused here with Helene Elliot.


nvm ... Captain Bob ninja'd me.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Predatorbill View Post
During the 1967 expansion all the new teams were in the West and all of the O6 were in the East. They have done it before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967%E2%80%9368_NHL_season
You have a weird sense of direction then. Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are "West" to you?

Edit: nm. You meant divisions.

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12-29-2012, 03:33 PM
  #47
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But my goodness... the ineptitude of this franchise is epic.
Ya, it truly is astounding. Granted they got burdened with just a horrible lease combined with an avaricious & malicious competitive venue, that wasnt supposed to be competing, but the hockey operations.... my God. Just beyond pathetic. Takes a real special breed of complete & utter gross incompetence to mess up the NHL brand in a state like Ohio. Inexcusable. Appalling. And now that theyve turned the corner, hired Davidson, new lease on the building & on life in general, all set to host the ASG, then BAM!, Lockout. Its like the old song, if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have no luck at all.

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12-29-2012, 04:04 PM
  #48
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I've made the trip down US 23 to Columbus a few times and I had high hopes for the BJs. Great arena. Nice jersey. Good arena district. You could stay in a hotel a stone's throw from the arena, go swimming at the hotel in the daytime, go to the market, check out a matinee at the theater and go to the game at night.

But my goodness... the ineptitude of this franchise is epic.
Name for me another industry that will allow a business to start and suck rotten eggs for 10 years and still be alive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, it truly is astounding. Granted they got burdened with just a horrible lease combined with an avaricious & malicious competitive venue, that wasnt supposed to be competing, but the hockey operations.... my God. Just beyond pathetic. Takes a real special breed of complete & utter gross incompetence to mess up the NHL brand in a state like Ohio. Inexcusable. Appalling. And now that theyve turned the corner, hired Davidson, new lease on the building & on life in general, all set to host the ASG, then BAM!, Lockout. Its like the old song, if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have no luck at all.
The alignment they got from day 1 hasn't done them any favors either. You can say they basically replaced Toronto in the Norris division. The problem was that Columbus, obviously, doesn't have the history of Toronto, or of Detroit, to sustain them through anything. But the Jackets get stuck in the West.

The Jackets don't have A history, let alone a winning history, terrible travel, many late start times, and we see what they have to do just to get free agents to sign there.

Saying that, the drafting and development part of their franchise, a total train wreck.

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12-29-2012, 04:20 PM
  #49
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I've made the trip down US 23 to Columbus a few times and I had high hopes for the BJs. Great arena. Nice jersey. Good arena district. You could stay in a hotel a stone's throw from the arena, go swimming at the hotel in the daytime, go to the market, check out a matinee at the theater and go to the game at night.

But my goodness... the ineptitude of this franchise is epic.
Name for me another industry that will allow a business to start and suck rotten eggs for 10 years and still be alive?
The NFL, NBA, and MLB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ya, it truly is astounding. Granted they got burdened with just a horrible lease combined with an avaricious & malicious competitive venue, that wasnt supposed to be competing, but the hockey operations.... my God. Just beyond pathetic. Takes a real special breed of complete & utter gross incompetence to mess up the NHL brand in a state like Ohio. Inexcusable. Appalling. And now that theyve turned the corner, hired Davidson, new lease on the building & on life in general, all set to host the ASG, then BAM!, Lockout. Its like the old song, if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have no luck at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
The alignment they got from day 1 hasn't done them any favors either. You can say they basically replaced Toronto in the Norris division. The problem was that Columbus, obviously, doesn't have the history of Toronto, or of Detroit, to sustain them through anything. But the Jackets get stuck in the West.

The Jackets don't have A history, let alone a winning history, terrible travel, many late start times, and we see what they have to do just to get free agents to sign there.

Saying that, the drafting and development part of their franchise, a total train wreck.
7 years of Doug MacLean, with almost no NHL talent to show for it during that entire time, is what stunted everything.

It's become popular to unload on current GM Scott Howson. But to be perfectly honest, look at the roster and farm system he inherited. If you look at the roster in June of 2007, it looked like an expansion draft roster that had Rick Nash on it. No other under-30 NHL talent except Nikolai Zherdev. No one in the farm system to speak of. The drafting/development has been night and day since the MacLean days, but it's not an overnight process to pull out of that.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:27 PM
  #50
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Swap schedules... Columbus to southeast, Minnesota to Central, and Winnipeg to Northwest...
I fully endorse this. Would love to be in a division with Calgary, Edmonton and Winnipeg.

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