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Where does John Cena rank on an all time list?

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:21 AM
  #26
King Woodballs
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not top 10 for me...
but top 15-20 for sure.

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Old
12-28-2012, 10:11 AM
  #27
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there's really only one way to settle this....

a poll ranking the top 20 of all-time?

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Old
12-28-2012, 10:17 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBryanRoleModel View Post
John Cena is like a Bob Backlund, Bret Hart or Shawn Michaels, he was put into a position to be the guy when he simply isn't able to pull it off beyond the base of the promotion's audience (The kids in Cena's case). I'm not saying Cena has the athleticism of those 3, I prefer all of them over Cena, but that is his sort of card drawing power, he draws, but not enough. WWE has made money with Cena, sure, but its role in popular culture has shrank significantly.

He's a slump main eventer, not on the level of Rock, Flair, Savage and Austin, and certainly not on the level of Andre or Hogan.
LOL

As much as I dislike Cena's currently character, this is completely off base.

He IS at the level of a Rock, Austin, and Flair simply because he's been pushing merch CONSISTENTLY and has been the main draw since 2005 - a feat neither Rock nor Austin accomplished (staying power).

WWE would be on life support right now if it wasn't for Cena. This forum needs to look past its blind hatred of Cena and view this objectively from a business standpoint. Hell, Cena get significant amounts of applause AND boos everywhere he goes - some of the IWC darlings can't even pull off decent reactions.

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12-28-2012, 11:05 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Baron View Post
LOL

As much as I dislike Cena's currently character, this is completely off base.

He IS at the level of a Rock, Austin, and Flair simply because he's been pushing merch CONSISTENTLY and has been the main draw since 2005 - a feat neither Rock nor Austin accomplished (staying power).

WWE would be on life support right now if it wasn't for Cena. This forum needs to look past its blind hatred of Cena and view this objectively from a business standpoint. Hell, Cena get significant amounts of piped in applause AND boos everywhere he goes - some of the IWC darlings can't even pull off decent reactions.
You forgot something.

IWC darlings not being able to pull off decent reactions? There are a few people on here that can vouch for WWE drowning out cheers on TV. Not comparing Brad Maddox to Cena, but for somebody who had the arena chanting his name last week, it didn't come across that way on TV.

But to answer the original question: he's definitely not top 10, and I'm sure if I put some thought into this, there's probably another 5 people that could be placed above him, putting Cena somewhere between 15-20.

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Old
12-28-2012, 12:55 PM
  #30
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Considering most of the all time lists are made by drawing money, you have to put Cena somewhere near the top.

Hogan
Londos
GG
Austin
Hackenschmidt
Rock
Cena
Inoki

And thats off the top of my head. Bret Hart is nowhere near the top of any all time list if drawing money was the main reason, as he was one of the worst drawing champs ever to go along with Michaels and Nash as the trinity of drawing failure.

That being said, nobody can take away the fact that Cena is money.

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Old
12-28-2012, 07:33 PM
  #31
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Near the top in drawing money (inflation has helped him), maybe top twenty of promo/mic work, and nothing special to merit being on a top workers list.

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Old
12-28-2012, 08:00 PM
  #32
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It's really difficult to make an "all-time" list. What do you rank by? Drawing power? In-ring? Total package? Cultural influence?

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12-28-2012, 08:04 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SheamusFan View Post
It's really difficult to make an "all-time" list. What do you rank by? Drawing power? In-ring? Total package? Cultural influence?
can't you take everything into consideration?

drawing power
in-ring ability
promo work
etc.

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12-28-2012, 08:32 PM
  #34
The Shockmaster
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It is very difficult to make a list for all of that.

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12-28-2012, 10:40 PM
  #35
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Although it would be tough to make such a list, I wonder what names would come up if all eras, all territories, technical skills, mic skills, look, gimmicks, experience, etc.... where taken into account.

It might be interesting to see where legends and past wrestlers might place against current guys.

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Old
12-28-2012, 11:22 PM
  #36
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I would have to think a top 10 list would be multiple different things.

Is he a top 10-20 wrestler in terms of drawing/being a star/kayfabe success/etc? Absolutely. Not even close. He's top 10 for me. In fact, Hogan would probably be number 1 and I absolutely hate Hogan. Flair would be 1a/1b or 2. But that's just in regards to that part of the business.

As for top wrestlers and what they did for the business? You have to think Taker would be high on that list.

And another way to list it is most popular/best actual wrestler and guys like Stone Cold/HBK/etc. would be top.

Nonetheless, you see it's very hard to figure out what list to rank people.

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Old
12-28-2012, 11:23 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
Where would people rank Kurt Angle on an all time list factoring in in-ring work, drawing ability, promo work, etc?
Great question but he left the big stage just way too early. I would say he was EASILY on his way to the top and now I couldn't rank him anywhere near the top of the list.

The only list I'd rank him extremely high on if we did a list about best in-ring workers. Then he'd have to be a top guy. He didn't have the longevity of being a huge star. He didn't break title reigns or anything special.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:50 AM
  #38
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Angle is in my top 10, Angle has everything you could ask for and still to this day is in the discussion for top workers in the business, he still puts on amazing matches and still makes everyone he works with look good. He's the whole package + the fact he has the Olympic Gold for that layer of credibility that others don't have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
can't you take everything into consideration?

drawing power
in-ring ability
promo work
etc.
Jonah avatar

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
Angle is in my top 10, Angle has everything you could ask for and still to this day is in the discussion for top workers in the business, he still puts on amazing matches and still makes everyone he works with look good. He's the whole package + the fact he has the Olympic Gold for that layer of credibility that others don't have.



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puck you, sir

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:00 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Last Baron View Post
LOL

As much as I dislike Cena's currently character, this is completely off base.

He IS at the level of a Rock, Austin, and Flair simply because he's been pushing merch CONSISTENTLY and has been the main draw since 2005 - a feat neither Rock nor Austin accomplished (staying power).

WWE would be on life support right now if it wasn't for Cena. This forum needs to look past its blind hatred of Cena and view this objectively from a business standpoint. Hell, Cena get significant amounts of applause AND boos everywhere he goes - some of the IWC darlings can't even pull off decent reactions.
Except when Austin and Rock got stale, Raw's ratings would drop to like a 5. When Cena is at his most popular, Raw's ratings are at a 4 at best. Cena is staying with his base, but with no one else.

Cena's merch sales are impressive, but his personal success isn't carrying over to the promotion as a whole and that's what you get with a Flair or Hogan. Austin brought WWF's ratings up, Cena's been on top as the ratings declined.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:57 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
Cena sells merch in todays era, but Austin/Rock have always moved more merch in their time. Austin/Rock gave Vince the most profitable era in history.

Cena's involved in the 2.0 era & compared to Austin/Rock, doesnt move as much merch & doesnt do much as a draw to a wide variety of audiences. The Cena-era more than anything has driven more viewers away, which isnt good for WWE's advertising revenue.
however, it's CM Punk's fault for the low ratings...

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:19 PM
  #42
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Depends what you're looking at.

Wrestling? Talking? Overall package?

Guess from your post, I'd imagine overall package. In which case, he'd probably be in the Top-50 somewhere, maybe. And my all-time list only goes back as far as Wrestlemania 1, since I'm not familiar with much before that.

As far as merch and all that goes, we will never have real numbers, just like we never have real salary numbers. Just guesses. Without that info (ticket sales is another important one), it's hard to tell and very much just a personal opinion.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:09 PM
  #43
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Are we going all-time WWF/E or all-time in general? If we're going all-time, there's also wrestlers like Gorgeous George, Bruno Sammartino (who I guess should be included on the WWF all-time list), Mil Mascaras along with a few others that drew with more popularity than John Cena.

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Old
12-30-2012, 01:02 AM
  #44
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Top 15-20, near Cena.

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12-30-2012, 09:08 AM
  #45
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Jericho's technical skills would rank him slighly higher than Cena IMO.

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Old
12-30-2012, 09:13 AM
  #46
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Where would you guys rank Bret Hart all-time?

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Old
12-30-2012, 10:13 AM
  #47
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Cena doesn't just sell a lot of merch, he sells so much merch I can't describe it in the PG era.

I was at a RAW last night, and Cena EASILY outsold everyone else on the card combined by a 2-1 margin. That is, if you took all the other merch sold at the show and put it in one pile, then took allll the cena merch and put it in another pile, Cena's pile is easily double, probably closer to triple.

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