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IIHF reffing is a joke MOD WARNING: Post 144

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:53 AM
  #476
Lonny Bohonos
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Originally Posted by Tatanik View Post
They may be the elite of their country, but you can guarantee they have never played against the likes of those Canadian forecheckers, whose hitting style is hit the player first, and then think about the puck, rather than go for the puck and take the body in the process.
Ive seen the canadians go for the puck more than go for the hit first. Only idiots ignore the puck on a regular basis.

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12-29-2012, 10:03 AM
  #477
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Same hit, except Jagr has his head up. You Slovakians can learn something here...

Now - was that hit legal? He (ovechkin) hit's Jagr right in the chops. No call. No outrage from anyone - because Jagr kept his head up and minimized the damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSDjSViV1sQ

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12-29-2012, 10:14 AM
  #478
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because I do not agree that even when it was clean hit by NHL standards. I think that there was a deliberate intent to injure an opponent.
Agreed.

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12-29-2012, 10:25 AM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
You must be blind he does it at exactly 30 seconds
Maybe he looks up maybe he doesn't. The 30 sec point on the clip doesn't convince me of it. But let's assume he does. That's 4 secs from when you claim he looks up to when Camara hits him. Count it out.

Posters were claiming Jenner was one sec late on his hit and that was plenty of time for him to stop. Now for Jenner one sec is a lot of time but for this kid to skate around with his head down for 4 seconds that's not alot time. The double standard on this board is laughable.

The IIHF will have to decide whether they want hitting in the game. If they decide no hitting that's fine. Let everyone know about it. Hitting is removed from the game but if they decide to allow hitting well they better tell their individual European associations to teach their players well or else what happened to Luza will continue to happen. If you allow hitting you run the risk of a player with his head down or admiring his pass.

There was nothing illegal about Camara's hit.

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12-29-2012, 10:34 AM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Sorry but they took "intent to injure" out of the rulebook years ago
ok, I'm glad that the refs have the power to impose a penalty in the game when there will sense this intention.

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12-29-2012, 10:43 AM
  #481
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Good god - the lack of comprehension around here is amazing!

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12-29-2012, 11:00 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
Good god - the lack of comprehension around here is amazing!
Yup.

By any objective measure, a player (and by extension a team) got screwed over by bad officiating which was thankfully quickly rectified by the IIHF and you have a ton of people around here arguing in favour of going after players for no reason.

With Lipon receiving his suspension, the only real unresolved issue from the game is why Rapac got off with nothing after his knee on Scheifele. I don't expect any support from those who supposedly care about the well being of the kids on the ice as thats only a mask for their real agenda.


Some of the responses in this thread reek of homerism and hate.

No wonder so many of the Canadian posters start talking conspiracy whenever the juniors are on. The horrid system affects Canada more as they play more physical and then we also have to deal with a clueless media.

Oh well, on to the next game and hopefully the refs don't make a mockery of the game next game.

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12-29-2012, 11:28 AM
  #483
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When I was watching the game I thaught it was not a faul. Then after the match I looked at the clip on youtube couple of times and I think it is definitely not a clean hit. Try to look at it frame by frame if you have to. I can clearly see there is a contact to the head when Camara makes the approach. As some people already explained, Luza could not have had anticipated what Camara was about to do. In the beginning of this situation the puck goes along the boards, Luza is there ahead of it, looks around, at that point Camara is going from behind to the boards (not towards Luza) and Luza probably does not even see him, Luza then focuses on the puck, Camara makes a turn towards Luza and at the moment Luza gets the puck under control, he looks up and gets hit.

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Old
12-29-2012, 11:40 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Zybalto View Post
No wonder so many of the Canadian posters start talking conspiracy whenever the juniors are on. The horrid system affects Canada more as they play more physical and then we also have to deal with a clueless media.

Oh well, on to the next game and hopefully the refs don't make a mockery of the game next game.
If by "mockery" you mean "punishing the hits that injure," by god, I hope the refs keep doing what they do. And if Canada doesn't learn, I hope it will be a parade to the dressing room for them. Surely Canada can win with just six or seven forwards, cuz they are just sooo much better than everybody else...

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12-29-2012, 11:44 AM
  #485
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all I have to say is Euro's play like a bunch of pansies. After reading this thread they should rename it to the we hate Canadians thread. That's all this thread is about. The hit by Camara was clean, what do expect him to do. The Canadians have and always will play a hard forechecking game. AGAIN had the player not been injured everyone would have been saying it was just a hard hit.

The officiating has been horrible, when Canadians to an accidental knee on knee it's a match penalty. If someone from Europe does one it's a 2 minute minor. Just because the Canadians refuse to play passive hockey doesn't make them "dirty". It makes them a tough, hard-nosed team. If that's dirty in your books then I guess they are dirty.

Point of the matter is, these aren't bad hits. People are just using ANYTHING they can to put down the Canadians simply because they don't like them. If you don't like them just say you don't. But don't ******** and say that you care about the future of these kids, because I don't see any of you caring about the Knee to Scheifele.

Next time Luza will have his head up, there needs to be onus both ways. Players need to play with their head's up and be more aware instead of using the excuse, "oh he didn't see him coming."

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12-29-2012, 12:03 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by francis246 View Post
all I have to say is Euro's play like a bunch of pansies. After reading this thread they should rename it to the we hate Canadians thread. That's all this thread is about. The hit by Camara was clean, what do expect him to do. The Canadians have and always will play a hard forechecking game. AGAIN had the player not been injured everyone would have been saying it was just a hard hit.

The officiating has been horrible, when Canadians to an accidental knee on knee it's a match penalty. If someone from Europe does one it's a 2 minute minor. Just because the Canadians refuse to play passive hockey doesn't make them "dirty". It makes them a tough, hard-nosed team. If that's dirty in your books then I guess they are dirty.

Point of the matter is, these aren't bad hits. People are just using ANYTHING they can to put down the Canadians simply because they don't like them. If you don't like them just say you don't. But don't ******** and say that you care about the future of these kids, because I don't see any of you caring about the Knee to Scheifele.

Next time Luza will have his head up, there needs to be onus both ways. Players need to play with their head's up and be more aware instead of using the excuse, "oh he didn't see him coming."
Like I said, I don't separate between clean and dirty hits (which is where, of course, I am different from the majority), if they intend to injure. Kneeing is every bit as despicable as a high blow. Neither has a place in junior hockey. If you want to call it "anti-Canadian sentiment," you are free to do so. God knows Canada gave the world plenty of classy players that never injured anybody, not just goons.

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12-29-2012, 12:11 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Like I said, I don't separate between clean and dirty hits (which is where, of course, I am different from the majority), if they intend to injure. Kneeing is every bit as despicable as a high blow. Neither has a place in junior hockey. If you want to call it "anti-Canadian sentiment," you are free to do so. God knows Canada gave the world plenty of classy players that never injured anybody, not just goons.
Intent to hurt is different from intent to injure. In Canada, we know the difference and expect the games to be called with that in mind, and internationally they rarely are called this way because, quite frankly, refs from some of the nations we play do not understand it.

But think about it...you don't throw a hit to make nice. You throw it to hurt. If the kid keeps his head up, he is hurt, but he is also out the next shift with a new appreciation of Canadian bodychecking, and maybe being a man and looking for a bit of redemption. Because he makes a mistake and refuses to protect himself, he got himself injured.

It seems simple. I think it is for most hockey purists like myself.

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12-29-2012, 12:23 PM
  #488
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One mistake by a ref and whole Canada starts crying about hitting is now not allowed. Get it together please.

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12-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
If by "mockery" you mean "punishing the hits that injure," by god, I hope the refs keep doing what they do. And if Canada doesn't learn, I hope it will be a parade to the dressing room for them. Surely Canada can win with just six or seven forwards, cuz they are just sooo much better than everybody else...
Big figure skating fan I take it?

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12-29-2012, 12:27 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by fredligh View Post
One mistake by a ref and whole Canada starts crying about hitting is now not allowed. Get it together please.
Yes, it is one hit, there is no history of this at all



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12-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Intent to hurt is different from intent to injure. In Canada, we know the difference and expect the games to be called with that in mind, and internationally they rarely are called this way because, quite frankly, refs from some of the nations we play do not understand it.

But think about it...you don't throw a hit to make nice. You throw it to hurt. If the kid keeps his head up, he is hurt, but he is also out the next shift with a new appreciation of Canadian bodychecking, and maybe being a man and looking for a bit of redemption. Because he makes a mistake and refuses to protect himself, he got himself injured.

It seems simple. I think it is for most hockey purists like myself.
Spot on!

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:30 PM
  #492
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Nah, this was a fine hit. Full body contact => clean check.

Luza should've been aware of Camara skating 5 m from him right at the moment he headed to the corner. Lumberjack could only do one thing in that situation, and he did it. Hopefully Patrik recovers quickly and remembers this lesson for his entire career.

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12-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by fredligh View Post
One mistake by a ref and whole Canada starts crying about hitting is now not allowed. Get it together please.
As someone who has watched this tournament and all international tournaments since the mid-70's faithfully, let me tell you that there is a bit of a history here beyond this or any single penalty or hit.

That said, I feel like the officiating has come a long way from the 80's and 90's and early 2000's. But we still have some issues, most of which come from a philosophical difference. I think in North America, one expects that they step on the ice and can get crushed at any minute, whereas it seems like that is a taboo thought in international hockey.

I would like to see a more defined standard, because obviously our kids play the game prepared to hit and be hit and it is different from how the game is officiated in Europe.

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12-29-2012, 12:32 PM
  #494
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Can't wait to see Jenner back to lay some massive "clean" hits on the Russians which will lead to an inevitable 5 and game again, probably.

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12-29-2012, 12:37 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
There is no use of any variant of the word "targeting" in the IIHF rules, those are the NHL rules. You don't have to target the head for it to be a penalty. After watching the replay I can see Camara tucks in his elbow and lowers his shoulder so it's a good hit and clean by NHL and North American standards, however the IIHF standards are different, from the angle shown it looks like the shoulder makes contact with the head first but it is difficult to tell. The referee does not have a great angle on the hit so it is understandable that he made the call, and it happens ridiculously fast.

I am going to offer everyone some insight into the mind of a referee and I'm probably going to get lynched for applying the universally hated by all fans "game management" concept. People always forget the ref only gets one look at a hit, when it's a hard hit like that and it causes a serious injury, in the interest of game management and safety you pretty much have to call something, especially when it causes a concussion it's very easy to assume it's a hit to the head, it is just human nature. If you don't call anything, not only will the team be pissed off with you which makes your life difficult, they will also run around the rest of the game taking liberties and making dirty plays and they are probably going to hurt someone else. So it's an obvious answer to the question, what is better? One injury or more?

Furthermore I think the other official on the ice who said it was clean should be suspended from IIHF tournaments, you always back up your colleagues regardless, otherwise it makes a mockery of the game.
The head pitched forward on the hit. If the first contact was with the head, then it would have snapped backwards.

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12-29-2012, 12:39 PM
  #496
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Can't wait to see Jenner back to lay some massive "clean" hits on the Russians which will lead to an inevitable 5 and game again, probably.
My hope is that the officials have all met and there has been some talk on what is a legal hit at this level and what is not.

The key issue here is that a hit that injures a player is not necessarily an illegal hit. This is where international hockey differs from basic North American standards, and there needs to be some consistency of thought, although that is certainly asking for more than what we are going to get (let's face it, this has been the gap in philosophy for 50+ years).

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12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
  #497
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And with now a full two days leading up to the BIG GAME, watch the Russian media/ press fuel the rivalry with a barrage of hate articles. So lucky I am fluent in Russian, I laugh at all their trash journalism.


Last edited by Mr Writer: 12-29-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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12-29-2012, 12:42 PM
  #498
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Yes the head being up or down is irrelevant, we were having an entirely different discussion.

The ref did see it, he was about 5 feet away.
And yet he didnt call a penalty on the play.

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12-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #499
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And with now a full two days leading up to the BIG GAME, watch the Russian media/ press fuel the rivalry with a barrage of hate articles. So lucky I am to be fluent in Russian, I laugh at all their trash journalism.
The interesting part is, all our media does at every tournament is talk about how skilled and magnificant the Russians play. The TSN panels do nothing but fawn over the skilled and speedy Russians every year, and tell us how wonderful they are. The only negatives come when the Russians do occasionally implode and lose a game they should have won, and then they will say that their amazing individual talent did not mesh into a good team.

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12-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #500
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The head pitched forward on the hit. If the first contact was with the head, then it would have snapped backwards.
Physics and reality aren't enough for this crowd. Not even The Liquor will cure what ails them...

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