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Roster Talk '13 — Finland

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Old
12-28-2012, 06:01 PM
  #576
The Saw Is the Law
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Hey don't worry. If we lose we'll find Team Finland in relegation round. No need to panic. Take it easy. We will win this tournament. No problem.

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12-29-2012, 05:22 AM
  #577
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Originally Posted by The Saw Is the Law View Post
Hey don't worry. If we lose we'll find Team Finland in relegation round. No need to panic. Take it easy. We will win this tournament. No problem.
Its same for everybody: if you lose enough games you find yourself on relegation round, not just team finland. I reason to panic after one 1-3 loss with a bad game.

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12-29-2012, 05:34 AM
  #578
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I must say that winning the pregames against Canada and USA wasn't a good thing. Boys got too confident and the talk about winning gold became a hot topic. Now they are not playing together as a team. Also losing Aaltonen was horrible because the team could use his goal scoring right now.

Offence is the major problem right now, Korpisalo has been good and defence has done well also. I'm not into mixing the lines totally because that could ruin the little chemistry the players have. I would like try Teräväinen on the top line instead of Salomäki and move him on the 2nd line. Maybe Salomäki could create some space for Barkov and Lehkonen?

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12-29-2012, 06:06 AM
  #579
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
I must say that winning the pregames against Canada and USA wasn't a good thing. Boys got too confident and the talk about winning gold became a hot topic. Now they are not playing together as a team. Also losing Aaltonen was horrible because the team could use his goal scoring right now.

Offence is the major problem right now, Korpisalo has been good and defence has done well also. I'm not into mixing the lines totally because that could ruin the little chemistry the players have. I would like try Teräväinen on the top line instead of Salomäki and move him on the 2nd line. Maybe Salomäki could create some space for Barkov and Lehkonen?
Usually the problem with Finnish teams is that they lack confidence and ambition. Confidence is gained best by winning games. Being overly confident or overly ambitious can turn against you, though, which seems to have happened to some of our forwards this time.

I still don't believe them saying that gold is their only goal was a mistake, because setting any other goal would've been pathetic. Losing those pre-tournament games hasn't brought the team any luck in the past, so why would it have helped things now?

These boys have to learn how to win, how to handle the wins and how to play when they're the favorites. If they don't our men's team's chances of winning anything in the future decrease. Losing pre-tournament games seems like a safe option, but there will be times when we win them and it can't lead to our forwards becoming selfish. Losing them every time is not an option, they will just have to learn how to handle winning.

The issues we have with the defense are playbook rather than team effort related and nothing that can't be fixed by the coaches. Like you said, it's the offense that needs to get their crap together and it's mostly up to only a few players. Unfortunately there aren't many changes that can be done to the playbook if the forwards decide not to follow it. The playbook is fine, it's the attitude and discipline that need fixing.

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12-29-2012, 06:10 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by JabbaJabba View Post
I must say that winning the pregames against Canada and USA wasn't a good thing. Boys got too confident and the talk about winning gold became a hot topic. Now they are not playing together as a team. Also losing Aaltonen was horrible because the team could use his goal scoring right now.

Offence is the major problem right now, Korpisalo has been good and defence has done well also. I'm not into mixing the lines totally because that could ruin the little chemistry the players have. I would like try Teräväinen on the top line instead of Salomäki and move him on the 2nd line. Maybe Salomäki could create some space for Barkov and Lehkonen?
I'd keep the lines the same for the next game. I like them, they all have roles there, kids just need to step up. If Lehkonen remains the same, imo Salomäki won't bring enough support for Barkov, though that could give Armia the playmaker he needs.

Swiss are a good test, they play disciplined and good D. Better than Sweden from what I've seen. If our kids are awake at Sweden game we are going to get our chances. They made so many mistakes against Swiss. They are missing Hamphus out there.

It's too early to say if those pretour games hurt us imo. Maybe they did but the talk should ALWAYS be about winning, nothing less. Maybe they got little cocky. But the Czechs played well and we had our chances. It didn't look like our kids played like it was some warm-up for them.

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12-29-2012, 06:13 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Gaps View Post
Good message
True, if your team can win Canada or USA, it can beat any team then. That means that gold is possible, why would you try to play for bronze or 4th or 6th or something? That would be completely sissy, pathetic and ridiculous.

They haven't said that they are favourites, they have just said that they have a chance at gold this time. What is the problem? This really sums up the main problem among many finnish people: they must have some inferiority complex -kinda of problems, if they honestly think that setting up winning as a goal is a problem.

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12-29-2012, 07:42 AM
  #582
FiLe
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What is the problem? This really sums up the main problem among many finnish people: they must have some inferiority complex -kinda of problems, if they honestly think that setting up winning as a goal is a problem.
What I've noticed is that many Finns are really bipolar. They don't have a problem with the cocky attitude as long as things are going their way; in other words, talking about winning is okay as long as we really are winning.

But at the sight of the first setback, they do a full 180 turn and go to full "woe is me, all is lost" mode instead of assessing the situation calmly, accepting the thing as a minor bump on the road and carrying on. This attitude is not just present in sports, but life in general. As if ones ultimate source of pride is being as sorry and desolate as possible, but yet dragging on anyway.

Honestly, sometimes I wonder how this can be the same nation that gave the Soviet Union a run for its money in two wars back-to-back less than 70 years ago.

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12-29-2012, 11:25 AM
  #583
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Didnt think this would happen, but Im really anxious about the upcoming Swiss game. Wasn't expecting a do or die situation so early in the tourny. Hopefully our guys will show why they were rated to high before the tournament.

Switzerland has looked pretty dangerous, which is quite surprising if you look at their roster. Well obviously one cant underestimate the importance of solid team game and good goaltending

I want to see the lions roar tomorrow and take all hopes away from the Swiss players right from the start.

Lets go boys!

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12-29-2012, 11:51 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by Ville231 View Post
Wasn't expecting a do or die situation so early in the tourny.
Do or die? Get your head on straight, man. Do or die means it's tournament over if we lose. It's not, because even if we do, we can still make the QF cleanly by beating Sweden the next day.

Seriously... are you really are so shocked about the fact that we lost to the Czech Republic? I repeat, the Czech Republic, which is a legitimate hockey power and doesn't have a bad team. Yes, we should have an even better one, but yesterday's result was far from a long shot.

Besides, given that this tournament only has 10 teams instead of 16 as in the men's WHC, every point counts. And despite that, the chance of a loss when facing a top-six country is still far from minimal. So all in all, this situation shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone - or you really did have your head in the clouds if you figured we'll just coast on through 'til we face Sweden.

So get your knickers out from the twist. The Swiss seem to have a decent team as well, but they're not the Czechs. We still have the advantage, and if we don't beat them, then... well, we really don't deserve much from this tourney to begin with.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-29-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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12-29-2012, 12:04 PM
  #585
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Do or die? Get your head on straight, man. Do or die means it's tournament over if we lose. It's not, because even if we do, we can still make the QF cleanly by beating Sweden the next day.
Is there someting im not understanding? If we lose to Switzerland then its game over for us. 2 teams get into QF and 1 straight to semis. Switzerland has 4 points and if they beat us they have 7. Czechs have 3 points and they'd get 3 more from Latvians. Sweden has 8 points. The max point total we can get by only beating sweden is 6 poinrs. By my math that leaves us to 4th place and relegation.

But I agree, in this tournament u get what u deserve.

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12-29-2012, 12:08 PM
  #586
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Is there someting im not understanding? If we lose to Switzerland then its game over for us. 2 teams get into QF and 1 straight to semis. Switzerland has 4 points and if they beat us they have 7. Czechs have 3 points and they'd get 3 more from Latvians. Sweden has 8 points. The max point total we can get by only beating sweden is 6 poinrs. By my math that leaves us to 4th place and relegation.

But I agree, in this tournament u get what u deserve.
I most definitley WOULDNT want to see you guys in relegation,ffs i picked finland as my #2 after Latvia

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12-29-2012, 12:09 PM
  #587
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I`m sure you guys will beat Switzerland,you guys just have waay more talent then swiss

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12-29-2012, 12:11 PM
  #588
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I havent seen the Swiss play this year. How have they played?

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12-29-2012, 12:24 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Ville231 View Post
Is there someting im not understanding? If we lose to Switzerland then its game over for us. 2 teams get into QF and 1 straight to semis. Switzerland has 4 points and if they beat us they have 7. Czechs have 3 points and they'd get 3 more from Latvians. Sweden has 8 points. The max point total we can get by only beating sweden is 6 poinrs. By my math that leaves us to 4th place and relegation.
S'pose you're right about that. My bad.

Still, it's exactly the situation that was to be expected if we lose to the Czechs. Which was always a possibility. But the bare minimum expectation, that of making the QF, was never through the Czechs, but the Latvians and the Swiss. And how exactly have we failed in that yet?

The prospect of this situation was sitting right there from the start. If you admit it makes you anxious now, you're only admitting your own inattetiveness.


Christ... I feel like the morale officer of a slit-wrist brigade. Maybe I should just stop trying to talk you guys out of it, and start giving sharpening instructions instead?

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12-29-2012, 12:26 PM
  #590
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Do or die? Get your head on straight, man. Do or die means it's tournament over if we lose. It's not, because even if we do, we can still make the QF cleanly by beating Sweden the next day.

Seriously... are you really are so shocked about the fact that we lost to the Czech Republic? I repeat, the Czech Republic, which is a legitimate hockey power and doesn't have a bad team. Yes, we should have an even better one, but yesterday's result was far from a long shot.

Besides, given that this tournament only has 10 teams instead of 16 as in the men's WHC, every point counts. And despite that, the chance of a loss when facing a top-six country is still far from minimal. So all in all, this situation shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone - or you really did have your head in the clouds if you figured we'll just coast on through 'til we face Sweden.

So get your knickers out from the twist. The Swiss seem to have a decent team as well, but they're not the Czechs. We still have the advantage, and if we don't beat them, then... well, we really don't deserve much from this tourney to begin with.
Are you really that sure of Czech losing points to Latvia that you can say "Get your head on straight, man" and "So get your knickers out from the twist" in just one post. I'm sure it can happen, but you seem so sure that maybe I should bet some money on Latvia in the Czech game. Or maybe in "we can still make the QF cleanly by beating Sweden the next day" the making quarters cleanly means that there is a chance of making it. But I wouldn't call it clean if we need upsets from others to get to the quarterfinals.

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12-29-2012, 12:28 PM
  #591
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I havent seen the Swiss play this year. How have they played?
Beat Latvia cleanly. Put up a good, strong performance against Sweden.

And now, because we had an off game vs. the Czechs and Sweden struggled with the Swiss, some of our guys are already creating a pandemonium here.

This, despite the situation being clear as day: We still have a team that would beat said Swiss team nine times out of ten - and if we don't, then we really didn't deserve anything more from these games to begin with.

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12-29-2012, 12:40 PM
  #592
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S'pose you're right about that. My bad.

Still, it's exactly the situation that was to be expected if we lose to the Czechs. Which was always a possibility. But the bare minimum expectation, that of making the QF, was never through the Czechs, but the Latvians and the Swiss. And how exactly have we failed in that yet?

The prospect of this situation was sitting right there from the start. If you admit it makes you anxious now, you're only admitting your own inattetiveness.


Christ... I feel like the morale officer of a slit-wrist brigade. Maybe I should just stop trying to talk you guys out of it, and start giving sharpening instructions instead?
Yes well of course this is a pretty probable situation and maybe anxious is a wrong choice of words. But still, the way we've played hasn't given a reason to cheer for and it seems that the Swiss have a better than usual team this year. Even though they dont have any superstars like Niederreiter or Bärtschi.

Of course I expect Finland to win this, I was just stating how big of a game this really is and how huge the concequences are.

And how many of you really thought We'd lose to the Czechs? I obviously underestimated them.

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12-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #593
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And how many of you really thought We'd lose to the Czechs? I obviously underestimated them.
Well, I've watched enough hockey to know that your probability of winning or losing a game is never 100% to one way or the other.

I gave us a 60-40 chance of beating the Czechs. Maybe 65-35 on the moments I felt extra cocky. Those are decent odds swinging our way, but hardly unsurmountable for the opponent.

I never fully "expect" one team or other to win a game. What I do, is that I try to figure who's the favorite, and then what it would take for the underdog to beat them. If they succeed in that, they win. If they don't, the other guy wins.

The Czechs beat their odds, and that's it. Now our guys have to make sure the Swiss don't beat theirs, which are even longer.

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12-29-2012, 12:54 PM
  #594
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S'pose you're right about that. My bad.

Still, it's exactly the situation that was to be expected if we lose to the Czechs. Which was always a possibility.

The prospect of this situation was sitting right there from the start. If you admit it makes you anxious now, you're only admitting your own inattetiveness.
This is false logic. Suppose we are in a poker game, you have AA and I have KQ. We go all in. The flop is KQJ, then turn is a 10. The prospect of that situation was sitting right there from the start, but now you have less options to win (with A, K, Q, and 9, giving the win to me. If you admit waiting for the river makes you anxious I'd say you are very attentive, not inattentive for noticing that I have increased my original 20% win chance to around 30%.

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12-29-2012, 01:04 PM
  #595
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This is false logic. Suppose we are in a poker game, you have AA and I have KQ. We go all in. The flop is KQJ, then turn is a 10. The prospect of that situation was sitting right there from the start, but now you have less options to win (with A, K, Q, and 9, giving the win to me. If you admit waiting for the river makes you anxious I'd say you are very attentive, not inattentive for noticing that I have increased my original 20% win chance to around 30%.
Nuh-uh. Doesn't work like that. This is hockey, not poker.

When playing cards, you have approximately 1,92% chance of drawing a certain card from a clean deck, with the odds steadily growing for each card that is left, except for those cards that are already drawn. For them, your odds of drawing are zero. You may not be aware of that, but it's how it is.

In hockey, you have two decks, their contents known, one always more stacked than the other. The bookmakers try to calculate the outcome according to those pre-set odds.

A hockey game is not poker, however. A major difference is that in poker, you never know what exactly is left in the deck. In hockey, you do. A game of hockey could be compared to drawing a single card from both decks, with the better card winning. The odds for drawing a better card from the more stacked deck is bigger, but that doesn't always happen. However, the odds coming to the game are always stable based on the strength of decks.

You win more surely by betting on the more stacked deck, but sometimes you lose no matter what.


Last edited by FiLe: 12-29-2012 at 01:10 PM.
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12-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #596
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Im not so fond of making percentual statistics, but the reason for concern is that, with the way we played against Czechs we'd lose 7 games out of 10 to them.

Czechs top players (especially Hertl) beat our top guys 100-0

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12-29-2012, 01:12 PM
  #597
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Im not so fond of making percentual statistics, but the reason for concern is that, with the way we played against Czechs we'd lose 7 games out of 10 to them.
This is true. But what in my opinion is against the odds is that the next game will be as bad from us.

Our guys will play better, I'd almost bet my dear old grandma for that (well, what's left of her, anyway)... it doesn't guarantee a win, but doesn't make me feel like spending any time worrying either.

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12-29-2012, 01:15 PM
  #598
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This is true. But what in my opinion is against the odds is that the next game will be as bad from us.

Our guys will play better, I'd almost bet my dear old grandma for that (well, what's left of her, anyway)... it doesn't guarantee a win, but doesn't make me feel like spending any time worrying either.
Yep, hope u're right. We'll have more answers tomorrow.

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12-29-2012, 01:16 PM
  #599
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What the heck happened to you guys against the Czechs???

I did NOT see that coming.

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12-29-2012, 01:17 PM
  #600
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What the heck happened to you guys against the Czechs???

I did NOT see that coming.
Hardy har har.

NOT funny.

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