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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

EDIT: Perry, Gonchar for PIT cup run.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:35 AM
  #126
roquay
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I think Dupuis had the longest point streak last season in the NHL. If he was Crosby we'd be talking about it 2 years in a row ps it was 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBenSF View Post
Ducks fans will want more I bet, probably a guy like Despres over Bennett and a better winger then Kennedy, maybe Dupuis.

If I was offered this:



Corey Perry



Pascal Dupuis
Simon Despres
2013 1st
2013 2nd


I would probably take it just because Perry and Crosby would be sensational. PIT will have to overpay, I don't see Anaheim giving Perry away for cheap unless they come to a complete stall in negotiations.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:28 AM
  #127
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Gonchar is much better on the PK. Much better.

Gonchar >= Niskanen 5-on-5.

Moen was one bad play.
Disagree completely. I assure you I've seen Gonchar play plenty from '05 onwards, and for all the good things he brought the team, I don't miss his latter-day defense one bit.

Moen was one bad play...one bad play representative of his decline, and you'd be hard-pressed to find even one defensive play that embarrassing from any other top 4 defenseman.

Again, Niskanen every day and twice on Sundays for everything but the PP. He was our best defenseman outside of Letang last year for that very reason.

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:02 AM
  #128
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Yeah Niskanen over Gonchar. Niskanen was our second best defensemen last year. He is younger and cheaper then Gonchar and we have years of control.

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:43 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Murray would ask for way more and then not trade Perry then he leaves and we get nothing for him. Then he will blame it on being a small market team and that the Ducks can't overpay players like that. BLAH BLAH BLAH.
Boring.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:22 PM
  #130
MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Disagree completely. I assure you I've seen Gonchar play plenty from '05 onwards, and for all the good things he brought the team, I don't miss his latter-day defense one bit.

Moen was one bad play...one bad play representative of his decline, and you'd be hard-pressed to find even one defensive play that embarrassing from any other top 4 defenseman.

Again, Niskanen every day and twice on Sundays for everything but the PP. He was our best defenseman outside of Letang last year for that very reason.
I've seen Gonchar a ton as well thank you very much. The Pens are my #2 team. Watch them as much as I can because of Crosby.

Gonchar > Niskanen. There's no way around it. Even other impartial fans have chimed in and said so. Gonchar is a legit top 4 defenseman (at least as of 2011-12).

Gonchar is a good PKer. Not great, but you're certainly not thinking "I wish he wasn't out there''. Unlike Niskanen.

Of course Niskanen looked OK, he has sheltered minutes. I've said this many times. Gonchar played top 4 minutes the entire season against scoring lines.


You're highly exaggerating Gonchar's decline. Since his Pittsburgh days, he's lost a little speed, but mostly his offense is worse. He doesn't seem to get his shot off from the point very much, or it's much less dangerous.

In Pittsburgh, Gonchar was good defensively. He was a top pair d-man and played against top lines with Orpik. Right now, he's still acceptable defensively for a top 4. He's not a liability.

Gonchar >> Niskanen, no way around it. Gonchar actually contributes on special teams.



Pittsburgh has an abundance of good D prospects. Niskanen is therefore not part of the long term plan.
Letang
Despres
Pouliot
Morrow
Maatta
Dumoulin
to name a few. Niskanen should be gone in a couple of years anyway.

Gonchar gives the Pens a better chance of winning because:
-he's better
-proven on ice and off ice chemistry with Malkin/the Pens


So they lose a younger player for one who is almost done... who cares, Niskanen shouldn't be there long term anyway.

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #131
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackFr View Post
How about nothing, in the offseason, if Perry and Getzlaf both bolt (which is very possible and you know it), and then you get to enjoy an absolutely brutal string of seasons where you force rookies onto the first line.

No one's giving you first-liners or stars for a rental. My proposal was very reasonable, and what you should expect.
Thats cool, i'd rather try to sign them, rather than lose them for marginal assets, if we lose them i'd rather totally rebuild instead of being flat mediocre, which is what these trades are

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:48 PM
  #132
The Waffler
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Gonchar for Cooke

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:05 PM
  #133
Zen Arcade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Waffler View Post
Gonchar for Cooke
I'd rather keep Cooke.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:07 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I've seen Gonchar a ton as well thank you very much. The Pens are my #2 team. Watch them as much as I can because of Crosby.

Gonchar > Niskanen. There's no way around it. Even other impartial fans have chimed in and said so. Gonchar is a legit top 4 defenseman (at least as of 2011-12).

Gonchar is a good PKer. Not great, but you're certainly not thinking "I wish he wasn't out there''. Unlike Niskanen.

Of course Niskanen looked OK, he has sheltered minutes. I've said this many times. Gonchar played top 4 minutes the entire season against scoring lines.


You're highly exaggerating Gonchar's decline. Since his Pittsburgh days, he's lost a little speed, but mostly his offense is worse. He doesn't seem to get his shot off from the point very much, or it's much less dangerous.

In Pittsburgh, Gonchar was good defensively. He was a top pair d-man and played against top lines with Orpik. Right now, he's still acceptable defensively for a top 4. He's not a liability.

Gonchar >> Niskanen, no way around it. Gonchar actually contributes on special teams.



Pittsburgh has an abundance of good D prospects. Niskanen is therefore not part of the long term plan.
Letang
Despres
Pouliot
Morrow
Maatta
Dumoulin
to name a few. Niskanen should be gone in a couple of years anyway.

Gonchar gives the Pens a better chance of winning because:
-he's better
-proven on ice and off ice chemistry with Malkin/the Pens


So they lose a younger player for one who is almost done... who cares, Niskanen shouldn't be there long term anyway.
I hate the trade board logic that says 'give away your guy as you have replacements with talent.' I would rather trade my guy for value than give him away. You do not make an idiotic trade because you drafted well in an area. And Gonchar just is not worth that much at this point. If that is the cost by all means keep him.

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:19 PM
  #135
Phion Keneuf
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Niskanen > Gonchar .....

Gonchar is going to be 39... Guy has to hang up his skates soon

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:21 PM
  #136
MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I hate the trade board logic that says 'give away your guy as you have replacements with talent.' I would rather trade my guy for value than give him away. You do not make an idiotic trade because you drafted well in an area. And Gonchar just is not worth that much at this point. If that is the cost by all means keep him.
So acquiring a top 4 D with great history with the Pens while substantially increasing the Pens' chance of winning the Cup is ''giving Niskanen away''.



And no, the Sens don't want Niskanen for Gonchar, that's not enough.

Niskanen is the most overrated 3rd pair D-man ever. Doesn't play the PK, is horrible on the PP and is only there because there are no other options.

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12-29-2012, 02:48 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
So acquiring a top 4 D with great history with the Pens while substantially increasing the Pens' chance of winning the Cup is ''giving Niskanen away''.



And no, the Sens don't want Niskanen for Gonchar, that's not enough.

Niskanen is the most overrated 3rd pair D-man ever. Doesn't play the PK, is horrible on the PP and is only there because there are no other options.
At this point I would not give more than a mid round pick for Gonchar. My opinion, and whether the Sens would take that for a rental of him for a handful of games is irrelevant to what I would give if I had the call for the Pens. So likely there is no deal to be had here, which is fine. Niskanen is not as you describe but that is neither here nor there. A team will pay a lot mroe for a Niskanen controlled for the next two years at a shade over $2 million per, and with upside at age 25 than they would a 39 year old Gonchar controlled for a couple dozen games. My opinion again, but I think that most would be on my side of the line on this opinion.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:52 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
So acquiring a top 4 D with great history with the Pens while substantially increasing the Pens' chance of winning the Cup is ''giving Niskanen away''.



And no, the Sens don't want Niskanen for Gonchar, that's not enough.

Niskanen is the most overrated 3rd pair D-man ever. Doesn't play the PK, is horrible on the PP and is only there because there are no other options.
Trading Niskanen for Gonchar doesn't 'substantially' increase the Penguins chance of winning. Offense is not a problem, defense is. Gonchar is worse defensively than Niskanen.

Doesn't matter if the Sens don't want Niskanen for Gonchar, the Penguins would be stupid to make that trade anyway.

It's good to know that the most 'overrated 3rd pairing defenseman of all time' is never really hyped up and barely mentioned in conversation, even in Pittsburgh. Niskanen has been nothing short of excellent since coming to Pittsburgh as a throw in. He isn't going to win a Norris any time soon, but he plays rock solid bottom 4 minutes and can play on either the PK or PP without much worry.

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:40 PM
  #139
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Gonchar > Niskanen. There's no way around it. Even other impartial fans have chimed in and said so. Gonchar is a legit top 4 defenseman (at least as of 2011-12).
Sure there is. This is a matter of opinion, no matter how bold your proclamations.

Quote:
Gonchar is a good PKer. Not great, but you're certainly not thinking "I wish he wasn't out there''. Unlike Niskanen.
I don't know where you get the opinion that Niskanen's a terrible PKer, to be honest. Likely out of thin air, like most of your schtick. He rarely plays there, first of all, though I don't remember anyone bemoaning his presence when he was. I was comfortable whenever he was on the ice last year.

Quote:
You're highly exaggerating Gonchar's decline. Since his Pittsburgh days, he's lost a little speed, but mostly his offense is worse. He doesn't seem to get his shot off from the point very much, or it's much less dangerous.

In Pittsburgh, Gonchar was good defensively. He was a top pair d-man and played against top lines with Orpik. Right now, he's still acceptable defensively for a top 4. He's not a liability.
In his final year, he absolutely was not.

Quote:
Pittsburgh has an abundance of good D prospects. Niskanen is therefore not part of the long term plan.
Letang
Despres
Pouliot
Morrow
Maatta
Dumoulin
to name a few. Niskanen should be gone in a couple of years anyway.
You can make the same argument for the Sens trading Greening for a declining 38 year old forward just because of their abundance of forward prospects. Of course, it's a stupid argument to begin with, so I wouldn't use it.

Quote:
Gonchar gives the Pens a better chance of winning because:
-he's better
-proven on ice and off ice chemistry with Malkin/the Pens
Gonchar gives the Pens a lesser chance of winning because:
-he's not as good in his own end as Niskanen, and that's where we need help.

Quote:
So they lose a younger player for one who is almost done... who cares, Niskanen shouldn't be there long term anyway.
It would be dumb to trade Niskanen before a defenseman who's better in his own end makes him expendable. That hasn't happened yet. He's young, he's cheap, he's well-rounded, so we want to keep him. Sorry.

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Old
12-30-2012, 03:36 AM
  #140
Tender Rip
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So, Gonchar finished the season with a 7 game playoff series loss.

He was second on his team in points after Spezza. He was second on his team in ice-time/ES ice time after Karlsson, he was second on the time in SH ice time. He finished as a +1, no Ottawa defender did better.
Furthermore, according to Behindthenet.ca, Gonchar had a lower percentage of offensive zone starts than any other Ottawa defender, which tells you enough about whether his coach trust him on the backend.

I assume because he is certainly no bullet out there on the ice these days, that people are once again underestimating what he does, because once in a while he will get badly burned. That he is super important to whatever team he plays on just the same.... well.... lets just forget that.

Value wise, because of contracts and age, I would probably agree with my fellow Pens fans that you wouldn't do a swap with for instance Niskanen at this stage. But if you tell me that we are going to war in the playoffs, I would much, much, much rather have Gonchar.
Not because Niskanen isn't good. He had a great season last year. But Gonchar is a difference maker.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:55 PM
  #141
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I still fail to see where we'd want Gonchar anyway? I'm not particularly psyched about our bottom 3 but there is better ways to spend the $ then bringing back an aging offensive defenseman to help the PP.

Right now the top 6 is Letang-Orpik-Martin-Niskanen-Engelland-Lovejoy. Obviously he's better than the bottom 2, i think it is debatable whether he is better than Nisk which put him as the #4 defenseman making 5.5 million. That just seems like poor resource management imo. Then factor in the number of guys who are going to get shots at the NHL (Despres, Morrow, Strait, Bortuzzo, etc), Gonchar's addition may hinder the development of the kids at this point.

If the season actually occurs i say let it ride with what the defense has, if they need help at the deadline then look to add a true defensive defenseman instead of Gonchar and if Shero has a "Craig Adams man crush" on Gonchar he can sign him in the offseason.

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