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LeBrun: NHL made new offer to NHLPA on Thursday (12/27)

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Old
12-29-2012, 07:36 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Xref View Post
The two sides will be meeting this weekend, apparently. A great sign.



http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...new-offer.html
I thought the players were sick of this lockout cycle. Why is Fehr fighting for a smaller term CBA?

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12-29-2012, 07:49 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I thought the players were sick of this lockout cycle. Why is Fehr fighting for a smaller term CBA?
from a business perspective its a lot easier to 'invest' every 10th season to obtaining a better cba than it is every 4th or 5th season.

think of it this way, if there was a new cba every two years, the owners would literally be unable to profitably run the league locking out each time. every ten years? no problem.

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12-29-2012, 07:51 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I thought the players were sick of this lockout cycle. Why is Fehr fighting for a smaller term CBA?
Easy: job security.

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12-29-2012, 08:08 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by RustE View Post
yep. with their reaction, the players will reveal what is really important to them... Hockey or their PA.

Don Fehr gives them tunnel vision; they don't see the big picture under him. He makes them think they can defeat billionaires and that the smallest of gains is worth the loss of 2 or 3 paychecks. I'm mean really, is one or two contract years, for about 30 stars, really worth 2 paychecks?

and Bettman just makes them insane.

I'm somewhat worried they will chose the PA.
I'm sure they will choose the PA, because the league shouldn't of used the term "last offer" and now they "have moved in the players direction" (a term the players have been taught) will want to get another "final offer" at least that's what Bieksa said.

And then Toes comes on and says the stuff they(meaning the NHL) have been fighting over is feeble.....doesn't he know he is fighting for the same feeble things

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12-29-2012, 08:09 AM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verviticus View Post
from a business perspective its a lot easier to 'invest' every 10th season to obtaining a better cba than it is every 4th or 5th season.

think of it this way, if there was a new cba every two years, the owners would literally be unable to profitably run the league locking out each time. every ten years? no problem.[/B]
As profitable as they have been, Just like now?

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12-29-2012, 08:10 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I thought the players were sick of this lockout cycle. Why is Fehr fighting for a smaller term CBA?
Because if the league wanted a 5 yr term Fehr would be fighting for a 10, and then call it a "concession" when they move in the owners direction.

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12-29-2012, 08:21 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by BradD View Post
You guys do realize the average contract is much larger in the NHL than the NFL right?

Might be NBA too.
Average annual salaries:
NFL - 1.9 million
NBA - 5.1 million
MLB - 3.3 million
NHL - 2.4 million

Average annual revenue:
NFL - 11 billion
NBA - 3.8 billion
MLB - 7 billion
NHL - 2.9 billion

Roster Size:
NFL - 53
NBA - 15
MLB - 25
NHL - 23

Highest played player per year:
NFL - Peyton Manning - 23 million
NBA - Kobe Bryant - 25.2 million
MLB - Alex Rodriguez - 27.5 million
NHL - Shea Weber - 14 million

The top players in the NHL are not paid like their peers in the other pro sports but the NHL does not have the revenue to pay its top players like the NFL, MLB, and the NBA does. The NBA has about 1 billion more in revenue per year but the small roster sizes allow them to pay the top players like they do. On average though NHL players have nothing to complain about in regards to average salary as they are right on par with the other major sports even though the NHL has by far the lowest revenue.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/0...ed-statistics/


Last edited by du5566*: 12-29-2012 at 08:32 AM. Reason: source
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12-29-2012, 08:28 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Highest played player per year:
NFL - Peyton Manning - 23 million
NBA - Kobe Bryant - 25.2 million
MLB - Alex Rodriguez - 27.5 million
NHL - Alex Ovechkin - 9 million

The top players in the NHL are not paid like their peers in the other pro sports but the NHL does not have the revenue to pay its top players like the NFL, MLB, and the NBA does. [/url]
Shea Weber is the highest paid NHL'er this year with a total salary of $14 million.

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12-29-2012, 08:40 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Shea Weber is the highest paid NHL'er this year with a total salary of $14 million.
The report is from May and there have been new contracts signed since then in all the leagues but the overall numbers are still relevant.

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12-29-2012, 08:46 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
The report is from May and there have been new contracts signed since then in all the leagues but the overall numbers are still relevant.
Not questioning the relevancy of the overall numbers but Ovechkin wasn't even the highest paid player last year. Brad Richards made $12 million in total salary last year. That's pretty significant difference from Ovechkin's $9 million salary so I think it's fair to point out that.

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12-29-2012, 09:18 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Not questioning the relevancy of the overall numbers but Ovechkin wasn't even the highest paid player last year. Brad Richards made $12 million in total salary last year. That's pretty significant difference from Ovechkin's $9 million salary so I think it's fair to point out that.
I don't think the numbers I posted include bonuses and what not..... Just highest annual salary.

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12-29-2012, 09:28 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
I don't think the numbers I posted include bonuses and what not..... Just highest annual salary.
Signing bonuses are part of salary in NHL. Not sure how it's in those other leagues. Regardless, Vinny Lecavalier for example made $10 million in salary last year (no signing bonuses) so however you wanna look at it, Ovechkin wasn't the highest paid player last year with his $9 million salary. Ovechkin did have and still has the highest cap hit in NHL but you shouldn't look at that when comparing salary to athletes from other sports and that article clearly didn't even do that but looked at his yearly salary.

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12-29-2012, 09:31 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Vujtek View Post
Signing bonuses are part of salary in NHL. Not sure how it's in those other leagues. Regardless, Vinny Lecavalier for example made $10 million in salary last year (no signing bonuses) so however you wanna look at it, Ovechkin wasn't the highest paid player last year with his $9 million salary. Ovechkin did have and still has the highest cap hit in NHL but you shouldn't look at that when comparing salary to athletes from other sports and that article clearly didn't even do that but looked at his yearly salary.
Got it. I am not sure how it works in other sports. Like Drew Brees for example signed a new contract this year and with bonuses he made 40 million (30+ in a signing bonus) but only had a 10 million cap hit.

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12-29-2012, 10:20 AM
  #264
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Interesting, indirect exchange today between THN's top columnists, Ken Campbell and Adam Proteau:

Campbell published a column this morning essentially declaring Fehr the victor in this labor war:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Campbell
The NHL players reportedly pay Donald Fehr about $3 million a year to run the affairs of their association. Given recent developments, all 750 of them should be tripping over themselves to give him an enormous raise. Somewhere in the range of double what he makes now ought to do it.
...
When the NHLPA hired Fehr as its executive director two years ago, it did so knowing it was getting the canniest negotiator in the history of sports labor, perhaps in the history of the labor movement itself. And Fehr has not disappointed his constituents. In fact, despite not having a single card to play going into this game, he has managed to take the league to the cleaners every bit as decisively as his predecessors.
...
But even if Fehr doesn't gain a single concession off this offer, he has already won. The NHL was negotiating against itself and still managed to lose.

Now, you know a column has to be pretty far off base for the militantly pro-union Proteau to jump on Twitter and fire back at his boss with the strongest public criticism that he's laid on the PA:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Proteau's Twitter feed
@Proteautype: Can't disagree more with colleague @THNKenCampbell, who says Don Fehr/NHLPA are winning CBA war. Players have made all major concessions.
Quote:
@Proteautype: @JimmyHespeler Exactly. If this is winning, I'd hate to see losing...
Quote:
@Proteautype: @SaintBruin Well, when one side gets all the concessions, they're winning more than the side that isn't.
Quote:
@Proteautype: @5mins4fighting One hundred percent correct. It's about stemming the bloodletting.
Quote:
@Proteautype: @Snowmobiler97 Thanks, Josh. This is about making the best of a concessionary situation for players.
Quote:
@Proteautype: @frankcasting Right, but that's not a win. That's stemming the bloodletting they knew was coming.

Proteau isn't exactly a moderate in this thing, either. Next to Larry Brooks he's probably been as one-sided as any major columnist in assigning blame during this saga. So to see him come out and give Campbell a public reality check, kind of frames how bizarrely over-the-top Campbell's column had gone. I mean, "greatest negotiator in the history of the labor movement"... really?

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12-29-2012, 10:35 AM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Interesting, indirect exchange today between THN's top columnists, Ken Campbell and Adam Proteau:

Campbell published a column this morning essentially declaring Fehr the victor in this labor war:




Now, you know a column has to be pretty far off base for the militantly pro-union Proteau to jump on Twitter and fire back at his boss with the strongest public criticism that he's laid on the PA:














Proteau isn't exactly a moderate in this thing, either. Next to Larry Brooks he's probably been as one-sided as any major columnist in assigning blame during this saga. So to see him come out and give Campbell a public reality check, kind of frames how bizarrely over-the-top Campbell's column had gone. I mean, "greatest negotiator in the history of the labor movement"... really?
I don't think either side has hit a home run and just because the league has "moved" doesn't mean they have "caved" because they really havn't rolled over. I suspect Fehr will stall and get a couple more drops of blood from the league, but for what the players have lost in pay prob won't make up for it.

Cambell seems to be out to lunch or trying to kiss some PA ass before the get a deal done.

Glad to see Spector give it to Kyper, even telling him to keep drinking the Koolaid.


Last edited by JAX: 12-29-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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12-29-2012, 11:02 AM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Interesting, indirect exchange today between THN's top columnists, Ken Campbell and Adam Proteau:

Campbell published a column this morning essentially declaring Fehr the victor in this labor war:

Now, you know a column has to be pretty far off base for the militantly pro-union Proteau to jump on Twitter and fire back at his boss with the strongest public criticism that he's laid on the PA:

Proteau isn't exactly a moderate in this thing, either. Next to Larry Brooks he's probably been as one-sided as any major columnist in assigning blame during this saga. So to see him come out and give Campbell a public reality check, kind of frames how bizarrely over-the-top Campbell's column had gone. I mean, "greatest negotiator in the history of the labor movement"... really?
Campbell has been very pro-PA too, so it's two Fehrfans arguing.

The problem with Campbells column is that he is out to lunch. Fehr had one card to play and that has been to say no up to January. It's a lousy card to play for the players since they pick up the tab of $750M for this tactic, but it has given Fehr some leverage here.

Fehr has been pretty good at selling the idea that he just may be crazy enough to kill off a season but other than that he's just gambling on the owners not being willing to lose another year. No doubt some will worship him as a negotiation jedi and no doubt some will credit an eventual deal with the players threat to disclaim interest. People see what they want to see.

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12-29-2012, 11:52 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
Campbell has been very pro-PA too, so it's two Fehrfans arguing.

The problem with Campbells column is that he is out to lunch. Fehr had one card to play and that has been to say no up to January. It's a lousy card to play for the players since they pick up the tab of $750M for this tactic, but it has given Fehr some leverage here.

Fehr has been pretty good at selling the idea that he just may be crazy enough to kill off a season but other than that he's just gambling on the owners not being willing to lose another year. No doubt some will worship him as a negotiation jedi and no doubt some will credit an eventual deal with the players threat to disclaim interest. People see what they want to see.
I just want to see NHL hockey. I couldn't care less who "wins". As far as I'm concerned, they are ALL losers.

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12-29-2012, 12:06 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Average annual salaries:
NFL - 1.9 million
NBA - 5.1 million
MLB - 3.3 million
NHL - 2.4 million

Average annual revenue:
NFL - 11 billion
NBA - 3.8 billion
MLB - 7 billion
NHL - 2.9 billion

Roster Size:
NFL - 53
NBA - 15
MLB - 25
NHL - 23

Highest played player per year:
NFL - Peyton Manning - 23 million
NBA - Kobe Bryant - 25.2 million
MLB - Alex Rodriguez - 27.5 million
NHL - Shea Weber - 14 million

The top players in the NHL are not paid like their peers in the other pro sports but the NHL does not have the revenue to pay its top players like the NFL, MLB, and the NBA does. The NBA has about 1 billion more in revenue per year but the small roster sizes allow them to pay the top players like they do. On average though NHL players have nothing to complain about in regards to average salary as they are right on par with the other major sports even though the NHL has by far the lowest revenue.

http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2012/0...ed-statistics/
If you look at the average salaries/league revenue ratio, this data indicates that NHL players get paid more than all players in the other 3 sports except NBA players.
The NHL's highest paid player gets 14mm/3.3bill (0.42%), while the highest paid player in the NFL gets 23mm/11bill (0.2%).


Last edited by Xref: 12-29-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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12-29-2012, 12:11 PM
  #269
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and the NBA has the smallest rosters in the leagues.

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12-29-2012, 12:15 PM
  #270
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Yep. But roster size is irrelevant. the claim was that nhl stars are underpaid relative to the other sports. not true.

Next we'll argue which league has the "most stars". LOL.


Last edited by Xref: 12-29-2012 at 12:24 PM.
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12-29-2012, 12:36 PM
  #271
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I just want to see NHL hockey. I couldn't care less who "wins". As far as I'm concerned, they are ALL losers.

Very true. Lamoriello was right, this has been an embarrassment for all those involved.


Last edited by Tkachuk4MVP: 12-29-2012 at 12:58 PM.
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12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
  #272
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Its sad to read some of these articles written by the media who have virtually zero business acumen compared to the real world. Players & their waiting game strategy is just pathetic.

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12-29-2012, 01:09 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
Its sad to read some of these articles written by the media who have virtually zero business acumen compared to the real world. Players & their waiting game strategy is just pathetic.


The only thing pathetic is the hypocrisy displayed by the owners and Bettman. Signing players to 13 year contracts full well knowing that the league would be pushing to cap term limits at 5 years. Absolutely disgusting.


"We can't help ourselves from making moronic contract offers! Please Gary cap the contracts at 5 years!"





LOL

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Old
12-29-2012, 01:13 PM
  #274
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"A recent “negotiating” session provides a perfect example of how Fehr operates. The league and the NHLPA negotiators agree to meet at 10 a.m. one day. Everyone shows up at the appointed hour, with the exception of Donald Fehr, who finally walks into the room at 11:15 and apologizes for being late. At exactly 12 noon, he announces he has a lunch meeting with someone in uptown Manhattan and leaves the room."

Gold, Jerry. Gold.

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12-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #275
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The owners are going to need to drop those concessionary demands a little more to avoid the showdown the desperately don't want to see.

At this point, if I'm Fehr.... I give the NHL two options

1. We agree to your deal -- but Max contracts are 7 years-- no matter who you sign with. And the NHL players are protected by revenue fallout caused by the owners' lockout by an escrow limit that effectively eliminates linkage in the case of sudden revenue losses....
Or
2. See you at the antitrust hearing

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