The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Realistically....How many teams should be in the NHL?
I agree about the trap, it's very detrimental to the game. But here's the thing about the talent pool though is that for example less and less kids play hockey in Canada and Canada should be the the NHL's biggest source of talent. And we can't rely on Europe to save us given their small population. The idea that let's go keep having expansions there's always gonna be players to fill these teams' jerseys is science-fiction, especially considering the reality of hockey in 2012: less available talent, bad markets, bad US economy.
First question: why should Canada be the NHL's biggest source of talent?
Second question: Are further inroads being made into Europe or not?
For the smaller countries, here's how many NHL players they had in their history by 1996, and how many they've had since then:
Austria - 0 in 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
Denmark - 1 by 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
France - 4 by 1996, 3 from 1997-2012
Germany - 9 by 1996, 17 from 1997-2012
Norway - 1 by 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
Switzerland - 2 by 1996, 18 from 1997-2012
Not included are the USSR and former Soviet republics. I can also throw in IIHF rankings over time, which has seen Slovenia go from the bottom to the top division in less than 20 years, that has seen Hungary go from middling to the top division, that has seen Belarus and Latvia surge...
Third question: With natural population growth and shifts, why would there be less available talent even within already-developed countries? We haven't touched on the next wave of Swedish players; 10 years ago, they weren't producing anyone. Slovakia and the Czech Republic both went through an extended lull. And the United States was entirely confined to Minnesota, Massachusetts, and Michigan....now we've seen a resurgence in the European countries, and a huge influx of NHL talent from other American states.
32, see if you can stabilize things in Phoenix (have KC, Houston, Hamilton/Toronto 2 as fallback options if that doesn't work), place expansion franchises in Seattle and Quebec.
32, see if you can stabilize things in Phoenix (have KC, Houston, Hamilton/Toronto 2 as fallback options if that doesn't work), place expansion franchises in Seattle and Quebec.
If any plan is dependent on kc, the league is screwed.
Why the NHL should return to just the original 6 just like how it should have been all along. Get rid of the NHLPA, have a salary cap around $50-70 thousand dollars per player like the good ol days, and have anyone who ever signs with these teams be tied to them for their entire lives.
I know that it would never happen but I truly believe that the best way to solve the NHL lockout would be to have less teams.
Their are a bunch of teams who are losing money year after year. I think the best way to get economics back to where they should be would be to cut the fat and lose a few teams.
So the question that I ask here is how many teams should be cut and what teams?
From a talent point of view, if the talent is there (and I firmly believe it is) then we should not be cutting teams - actually we should be adding teams. If the PA would let them, the NHL could come up with a system (and that's really the only issue) that allows teams to be successful (or rather limits their losses).
And before you cut teams, you give them a chance to move. Seattle, Quebec City, Toronto#2/Southern Ontario would all be wildly successful off the ice (not sure about Seattle, but it couldn't be worse than a bunch of the teams at the bottom now).
__________________ "It’s not as if Donald Fehr was lying to us, several players said. Rather, it’s as if he has been economical with information, these players believe, not sharing facts these players consider to be vital."
Why the NHL should return to just the original 6 just like how it should have been all along. Get rid of the NHLPA, have a salary cap around $50-70 thousand dollars per player like the good ol days, and have anyone who ever signs with these teams be tied to them for their entire lives.
Id pay to watch the the other 24 teams that left the NHL to form a different league...lets call this hypothetical league the WHA. Then i think we could add 6 more teams: Quebec City, Toronto, Hamilton, Houston, New England, and Seattle.
Halifax has a population barely bigger than Saskatoon. That's a non-starter from the get go.
Well if there's a team in non tradition hockey market, ie: Glendale pop: 191,719, then a team deserves to be in tradition hockey markets: Halifax (pop: 390,096) AND Saskatoon (pop: 222,189).
32, see if you can stabilize things in Phoenix (have KC, Houston, Hamilton/Toronto 2 as fallback options if that doesn't work), place expansion franchises in Seattle and Quebec.
Agreed. I would ignore KC though, Toronto area would be the 1st choice, but I'd also look into Portland and Milwaukee, which seem more logical from a business standpoint.
Well if there's a team in non tradition hockey market, ie: Glendale pop: 191,719, then a team deserves to be in tradition hockey markets: Halifax (pop: 390,096) AND Saskatoon (pop: 222,189).
Glendale is smack in the middle Phoenix: Population 4.3 Million. Try again.
Well if there's a team in non tradition hockey market, ie: Glendale pop: 191,719, then a team deserves to be in tradition hockey markets: Halifax (pop: 390,096) AND Saskatoon (pop: 222,189).
Phoenix metro, of which Glendale is a part, has 4.2 million people in it. Neither Halifax nor Saskatoon have even a half million. No comparison.
First question: why should Canada be the NHL's biggest source of talent?
Because they are the biggest providers of NHL players and if they stop being that, then we have no NHL.
And the CHL for instance have the best model at producing NHL-ready players as far developement and having the character-players for the NHL. You won't see a James Neal and Milan Lucic come out of Sweden(although from Europe you have an odd cat like Chara).
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Second question: Are further inroads being made into Europe or not?
For the smaller countries, here's how many NHL players they had in their history by 1996, and how many they've had since then:
Austria - 0 in 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
Denmark - 1 by 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
France - 4 by 1996, 3 from 1997-2012
Germany - 9 by 1996, 17 from 1997-2012
Norway - 1 by 1996, 6 from 1997-2012
Switzerland - 2 by 1996, 18 from 1997-2012
Not included are the USSR and former Soviet republics. I can also throw in IIHF rankings over time, which has seen Slovenia go from the bottom to the top division in less than 20 years, that has seen Hungary go from middling to the top division, that has seen Belarus and Latvia surge...
But how many of them are NHL players? Russia is supposed to be a big country but as far as number of players and quality of them, they have a only a few.
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Third question: With natural population growth and shifts, why would there be less available talent even within already-developed countries? We haven't touched on the next wave of Swedish players; 10 years ago, they weren't producing anyone. Slovakia and the Czech Republic both went through an extended lull. And the United States was entirely confined to Minnesota, Massachusetts, and Michigan....now we've seen a resurgence in the European countries, and a huge influx of NHL talent from other American states.
No question it's great that other areas of the states are producing players but not enough that it can justify having more NHL teams. And it's not that other countries produce more talent than before, it's that the NHL more easily welcome them. There has been great players in the past from these countries that have never played for the NHL. But now the NHL are tracking the whole planet to find players and they let everyone in.
No, I don't care where talent comes from. If Canada started pumping out massive numbers of NFL players, I wouldn't be less likely to watch it and I sure wouldn't sit around and complain about it.
Talent is talent. If I'm going to pay money to watch the best in the world, I don't care if his name is John Smith, Federico Montagna, Akira Fujimoto, or Ekwueme Gbagbo.
Agreed. I would ignore KC though, Toronto area would be the 1st choice, but I'd also look into Portland and Milwaukee, which seem more logical from a business standpoint.
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Originally Posted by sandysan
If any plan is dependent on kc, the league is screwed.
Yeah trust me, KC's not my first choice even though I listed them first. Just floated out markets off the top of my head that I know have the population and the available arena (or plans for one in the case of TO2/Markham), though Hamilton would need refurbed.
Milwaukee is another good possible natural market. Bradley center can definitely handle a good sized NHL crowd too.
Portland is an interesting one, does anyone know if Paul Allen still has interest in an NHL team?
Admittedly Conflicted Habs fans analogy missed the mark by about the distance from the Earth to the Moon, however, his translation was literal & therefore accurate. Obviously Amalgamation wouldve gone far in the case of what Glendales up against... but even then and at that, Phoenix proper isnt in the greatest of shape, and Im not so sure the thought of Amalgamation in places like Scottsdale & Cave Creek, the wealthier enclaves throughout the Valley would be well received. Eventually it'll happen, bound to, but not soon enough to potentially save the Coyotes.
Admittedly Conflicted Habs fans analogy missed the mark by about the distance from the Earth to the Moon, however, his translation was literal & therefore accurate. Obviously Amalgamation wouldve gone far in the case of what Glendales up against... but even then and at that, Phoenix proper isnt in the greatest of shape, and Im not so sure the thought of Amalgamation in places like Scottsdale & Cave Creek, the wealthier enclaves throughout the Valley would be well received. Eventually it'll happen, bound to, but not soon enough to potentially save the Coyotes.
I believe at some point the Coyotes are going to be gone from Phoenix. It's just laughable that anyone would suggest dropping them in a town as small as Halifax.
