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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:41 PM
  #201
Chaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Except of course, NHL numbers.
No, I can look at those. I see a 32 point pace. I see 17% shooting. I see 70% offensive zone starts.

I also dont massively overvalue an 18 game sample size as you are. Sorry, but a 114 game sample size of not producing is far more important than an 18 game sample size of 3rd line level production.

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12-29-2012, 04:43 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Brilliant stuff. Because all 1st-line NHL players scored more than 23 goals as rookies.
Im sorry, when did Kreider score 23 goals as a rookie?

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And please tell me how leading a team in scoring as a Junior translates to "lack of production"
23 points in 38 games. 24 points in 32 games. 11 points in 29 games. That is a lack of production.

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12-29-2012, 04:44 PM
  #203
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Gaborik, Richards, Nash, Stepan and Lundqvist are the result of the Rangers great AHL development program. Why did I forget?

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12-29-2012, 04:44 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
No, I can look at those. I see a 32 point pace. I see 17% shooting. I see 70% offensive zone starts.

I also dont massively overvalue an 18 game sample size as you are. Sorry, but a 114 game sample size of not producing is far more important than an 18 game sample size of 3rd line level production.
Yeah those silly Rangers. I mean, why in the world would they ask Kreider to play in the NHL postseason, thereby nullifying the ever-important chance to improving his college stats as a senior and please the player development requirements of arm-chair scouts of non-playoff teams.

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12-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Yeah those silly Rangers. I mean, why in the world would they ask Kreider to play in the NHL postseason, thereby nullifying the ever-important chance to improving his college stats as a senior and please the player development requirements of arm-chair scouts of non-playoff teams.
Oh I dont know, probably because they had a whole in their lineup caused by injury and needed to fill it. Doesnt change the fact that he doesnt have a track record of consistently producing over any decent sample size.

And yeah, nice shot at the team Im a fan of. Which has no bearing on this whatsoever.

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12-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Gaborik, Richards, Nash, Stepan and Lundqvist are the result of the Rangers great AHL development program. Why did I forget?
Wow.......

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12-29-2012, 04:49 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Oh I dont know, probably because they had a whole in their lineup caused by injury and needed to fill it. Doesnt change the fact that he doesnt have a track record of consistently producing over any decent sample size.

And yeah, nice shot at the team Im a fan of. Which has no bearing on this whatsoever.
Kreider stayed in the lineup.

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12-29-2012, 04:50 PM
  #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Kreider stayed in the lineup.
Good for him. And he produced at a 3rd line forward pace.

It still doesnt change the fact that he doesnt have a history of consistently producing over any decent sample size. Expecting that to change at the highest level in the world is nothing more than wishful thinking.

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12-29-2012, 04:54 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Yeah those silly Rangers. I mean, why in the world would they ask Kreider to play in the NHL postseason, thereby nullifying the ever-important chance to improving his college stats as a senior and please the player development requirements of arm-chair scouts of non-playoff teams.
good post. Kreider most likely would have dominated college hockey with his last season. However, the Rangers management obviously saw something with Kreider to get him to the NHL playoffs.

This thread certainly has some valid points either way with Kreider.

He has the size and skating ability to be an Eric Cole or Bill Guerin type of NHL player or he could just become an Oleg Kvasha type NHL player who had great size and who was a very strong powerful skater also.

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12-29-2012, 04:59 PM
  #210
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As much fun as I'm having, I'd like to just clarify:

1) I dont care about the AHL. I care about Kreider's health and conditioning.

2) I never penciled Kreider on the 1st line because what Torts' lines look like on Opening Night get flipped 65 ways by mid-November. Torts once rolled a 1st line of Jody Shelley, Anisimov and Brandon Prust.

3) I know for a fact that Kreider as a rookie will get benched, possibly demoted. He wont be the first and certainly not the last. He's not a long-term fixture.

4) The academic hockey world always considered Kreider one fo the better NHL prospects in the NCAA. When you are one of the stars in a dominant program and already a 1st round pick, you get that kind of recognition. That doesnt mean he was considered a sure-fire NHL star.

5) Kreider's postseason performance is not a good gauge because he was on a leash. It is, however, a better indication of what he can do as a Ranger in the NHL than 29 games in the AHL with ECHL castoffs, overage beer leaguers and recent draftees.

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12-29-2012, 05:01 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
good post. Kreider most likely would have dominated college hockey with his last season. However, the Rangers management obviously saw something with Kreider to get him to the NHL playoffs.

This thread certainly has some valid points either way with Kreider.

He has the size and skating ability to be an Eric Cole or Bill Guerin type of NHL player or he could just become an Oleg Kvasha type NHL player who had great size and who was a very strong powerful skater also.
I've always compared him to Guerin, because Guerin's early Devils days were a lot like Kreider's early days at BC.

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12-29-2012, 05:08 PM
  #212
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Have you taken a basic logic class?

The Rangers bought Richards. They bought Nash. They bought Gaborik. They didn't develop a single one of their best three forwards.

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12-29-2012, 05:10 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Wow.......
None of those players played for the Rangers' AHL affilitate. 3 were UFA signings and the other two went straight from their old team to the Rangers, bypassing the AHL. How did the Rangers develop any of them?

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12-29-2012, 05:10 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Have you taken a basic logic class?

The Rangers bought Richards. They bought Nash. They bought Gaborik. They didn't develop a single one of their best three forwards.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/stats/_/...w-york-rangers

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12-29-2012, 05:11 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I've always compared him to Guerin, because Guerin's early Devils days were a lot like Kreider's early days at BC.
Except that Guerin actually produced when he was in the AHL(albeit only over a 22 game sample size), something that Kreider has yet to do. Of course there is still time for him to turn it around, but I wouldnt count on it.

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12-29-2012, 05:17 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
None of those players played for the Rangers' AHL affilitate. 3 were UFA signings and the other two went straight from their old team to the Rangers, bypassing the AHL. How did the Rangers develop any of them?

Wow......

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12-29-2012, 05:17 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Wow......
Wow............................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...

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12-29-2012, 05:21 PM
  #218
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That is not proof of the Rangers being good at player development. Jesus H, do you understand that?

This is a dead-end conversation.

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12-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  #219
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I think some people overrate him as a prospect. He has good size/strength, great speed and a nice shot, he's definitely a guy whose tools instantly impress you. At the same time, I haven't been impressed by his hockey sense, he doesn't seem to make great decisions with the puck, and that's a huge part of what makes a great player. I think he's better than his stats would suggest, his physical tools are very high end, but I don't think he'll be a true star. I'd peg his upside as roughly the next Erik Cole.

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12-29-2012, 05:26 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Have you taken a basic logic class?

The Rangers bought Richards. They bought Nash. They bought Gaborik. They didn't develop a single one of their best three forwards.
Even though they didn't develop their best three forwards, they still produced a good amount of quality forwards while being a competitive team: Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Korpikoski, etc. Outside of Eberle, Oilers management shouldn't get any credit for the core Oilers forwards. If the Rangers were getting lottery picks every year they would be developing first liners too.

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12-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Except that Guerin actually produced when he was in the AHL(albeit only over a 22 game sample size), something that Kreider has yet to do. Of course there is still time for him to turn it around, but I wouldnt count on it.
Kreider and Guerin both finished 9th in team scoring at BC their freshman year. Kreider outscored Guerin in goals 15-14.

Based off PPG, Kreider would have finished 6th in scoring his sophomore year, while Guering finished 4th.

In Guerin's first 77 NHL games, he scored 17 goals. (in a massively offensive era)

Guerin was great in the AHL. Kreider isnt. Kreider should score 12 NHL goals in his next 59 games

Aaaaaaaaaaand........

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12-29-2012, 05:28 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
That is not proof of the Rangers being good at player development. Jesus H, do you understand that?

This is a dead-end conversation.
I never said they were good at it.

I said they were better at it than the Oilers.

OKay?

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12-29-2012, 05:29 PM
  #223
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Are there people in here suggesting that the Rangers are a team that doesn't develop their own talent?

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12-29-2012, 05:32 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Kreider and Guerin both finished 9th in team scoring at BC their freshman year. Kreider outscored Guerin in goals 15-14.

Based off PPG, Kreider would have finished 6th in scoring his sophomore year, while Guering finished 4th.
And then came the massive difference in their respective 2nd years in college. Of course you fail to mention that, it again doesnt fit your agenda.

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12-29-2012, 05:32 PM
  #225
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Are there people in here suggesting that the Rangers are a team that doesn't develop their own talent?
Yea and apparently the Oilers are amazing at it thanks to their brilliant ability to pick 1st overall for three straight years.

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