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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:33 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I think some people overrate him as a prospect. He has good size/strength, great speed and a nice shot, he's definitely a guy whose tools instantly impress you. At the same time, I haven't been impressed by his hockey sense, he doesn't seem to make great decisions with the puck, and that's a huge part of what makes a great player. I think he's better than his stats would suggest, his physical tools are very high end, but I don't think he'll be a true star. I'd peg his upside as roughly the next Erik Cole.
I'd like to meet the guy who said he was a great player, or destined to be one?

He's a high-maintenance guy, but nobody said that be be a high-rated prospect you have to be a one-man self-sufficient wrecking crew.

The names thrown around over the last few seasons have been Eric Cole, Adam Deadmarsh, Billy Guerin etc.

The only reason why people think he could score 30-35 is because of the depth and skill the Rangers have. It's going to be a while until he gets 20-22 mins a game

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12-29-2012, 04:37 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
And then came the massive difference in their respective 2nd years in college. Of course you fail to mention that, it again doesnt fit your agenda.
Offensive era buddy. Mike Richter sure sucked in 1991 with his 3.12 GAA. He's no Mathieu Garon circa 2012.

Guerin was 4th on his team in PPG

Kreider was 6th on his.

Masssssssive difference, for sure.

Guerin in 14 WJC games : 14-0-3-3
Kreider in 13 WJC games: 13-10-3-13

Massive difference?

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12-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Offensive era buddy. Mike Richter sure sucked in 1991 with his 3.12 GAA. He's no Mathieu Garon circa 2012.

Guerin was 4th on his team in PPG

Kreider was 6th on his.

Masssssssive difference, for sure.

Guerin in 14 WJC games : 14-0-3-3
Kreider in 13 WJC games: 13-10-3-13

Massive difference?
Its amazing how you have seemingly endless excuses. 45 points in 38 games vs. 24 points in 32 games. Massive difference

And please stop overrating the WJC's. Once again, small sample sizes.

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12-29-2012, 04:39 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
Even though they didn't develop their best three forwards, they still produced a good amount of quality forwards while being a competitive team: Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Anisimov, Dubinsky, Korpikoski, etc. Outside of Eberle, Oilers management shouldn't get any credit for the core Oilers forwards. If the Rangers were getting lottery picks every year they would be developing first liners too.
The Oilers have been pushing a large number of picks (not the 1st overalls) through their AHL affiliate in recent years. With how poor the seasons have been, a lot of attention is paid to those prospects. Now during the lockout Oiler fans can compare what an AHL project and a legitimate NHLer look like. To see Hall playing next to Tyler Pitlick reveals just how different the two types are.

So I don't need to watch him play, Kreider's production is not the calibre of a top line player. He might become one but he isn't right now, nor should he be expected to be one next year. So all the Calder talk can go away, Tarasenko, Granlund, MacKinnon, Schultz and Yakupov are the ones who should be in the discussion.

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12-29-2012, 04:43 PM
  #230
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Well of course they're better than the Oilers, everyone is better than the Oilers.

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12-29-2012, 04:43 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
The Oilers have been pushing a large number of picks (not the 1st overalls) through their AHL affiliate in recent years. With how poor the seasons have been, a lot of attention is paid to those prospects. Now during the lockout Oiler fans can compare what an AHL project and a legitimate NHLer look like. To see Hall playing next to Tyler Pitlick reveals just how different the two types are.

So I don't need to watch him play, Kreider's production is not the calibre of a top line player. He might become one but he isn't right now, nor should he be expected to be one next year. So all the Calder talk can go away, Tarasenko, Granlund, MacKinnon, Schultz and Yakupov are the ones who should be in the discussion.
Wait, i thought the Oilers were good at AHL player development?

Has that translated to NHL success? you know, postseason berths, winning seasons etc.

Just wondering.

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12-29-2012, 04:52 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Its amazing how you have seemingly endless excuses. 45 points in 38 games vs. 24 points in 32 games. Massive difference

And please stop overrating the WJC's. Once again, small sample sizes.
45 points in 1991 is not comparable to 24 points in 32 games in 2011.

The leading scorer in HE in 1991 had 82 points
The leading scorer for HE in 2011 had 52 points.

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12-29-2012, 05:06 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I'd peg his upside as roughly the next Erik Cole.
Not that I think he will play like this guy, but I see Kreider being at the same level Tony Amonte was during his career. Basically a great secondary player who probably might squeak into the bottom quarter of the top 20 scorers on occasion but usually just be a notch below that

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12-29-2012, 05:09 PM
  #234
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Kreider is definately over rated by the HF top 50 prospects that had him 11? I think. He isnt a top 15 prospect. He is one of those prospects that hovers around the 30 mark. Reminds me of another prospect in Joel Armia. Both are tall players that show flashes but I question their ability. Armia's problem is consistency and Kreider's is Hockey Sense. He was over rated due to his decent playoffs and is just having a rough time. But the skill is their no doubt.

He is a top 30 prospect, but shouldnt flirt with top 20 and certaintly not top 15.

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12-29-2012, 05:16 PM
  #235
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His size is super exaggerated, the average height in the NHL is 6'1", he is 6'3" and average weight is 204, he is 215, with defense man being 209 lbs.

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12-29-2012, 05:24 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Most of those guys you mentioned went to score or average at least 20+ goals as NHL'ers.

As for this love affair with the diminutive Atkinson:

Kreider played 18 NHL games -- 18-5-2-7

Over Atkinson's first 18 NHL games -- 18-2-2-4

Kreider's NHL TOI: 13:09
Atkinson's TOI: 15:23

You know when Atkinson's stats improved? When the season was lost and the jackets pretty much clinched the worst record in the league.

Atkinson had 10 points in his last six games. You know, those ever-meaningful important "We're lottery bound" games.
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
45 points in 1991 is not comparable to 24 points in 32 games in 2011.

The leading scorer in HE in 1991 had 82 points
The leading scorer for HE in 2011 had 52 points.
Now, wait a minute. Most of the players I named played back in the 1980s, when scoring was extremely high. Them going on and becoming 20-goal scorers means absolutely nothing, and certainly is not comparable to scoring 20 goals today. You admit this yourself in the second quoted post here, but try to skirt that in the first one.

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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Over the last few pagers, fans from the following teams have provided critical analysis of Chris Kreider:

Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Edmonton Oilers


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Is that better or worse than your attempt to provide critical analysis of Cam Atkinson? You claim that his numbers improved because of no-pressure situations facing Columbus, when in reality it was a matter of how he was being used. In the last few games, he was on the left side of a line with Derick Brassard and RJ Umberger, and had power play time. Prior to that, he'd been on the right side with Prospal and Letestu. And when Scott Arniel was still coaching, he was on the 4th line with Derek MacKenzie and Matt Calvert.

No, please, tell me more about your analysis. No one knows more about the way Columbus uses their forwards.

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12-29-2012, 05:47 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Now, wait a minute. Most of the players I named played back in the 1980s, when scoring was extremely high. Them going on and becoming 20-goal scorers means absolutely nothing, and certainly is not comparable to scoring 20 goals today. You admit this yourself in the second quoted post here, but try to skirt that in the first one.
Dan Quinn was a 40 goal scorer. Krusher once scored 43.

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Is that better or worse than your attempt to provide critical analysis of Cam Atkinson? You claim that his numbers improved because of no-pressure situations facing Columbus, when in reality it was a matter of how he was being used. In the last few games, he was on the left side of a line with Derick Brassard and RJ Umberger, and had power play time. Prior to that, he'd been on the right side with Prospal and Letestu. And when Scott Arniel was still coaching, he was on the 4th line with Derek MacKenzie and Matt Calvert.

No, please, tell me more about your analysis. No one knows more about the way Columbus uses their forwards.
I'll give you credit for trying, but that's about it.

Atkinson on the season had One PP goal and one PP assist. His TOI and amount of shifts didnt change much from his first game to the last. Prospal was the team's leading scorer after Nash.

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12-29-2012, 06:03 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Dan Quinn was a 40 goal scorer. Krusher once scored 43.



I'll give you credit for trying, but that's about it.

Atkinson on the season had One PP goal and one PP assist. His TOI and amount of shifts didnt change much from his first game to the last. Prospal was the team's leading scorer after Nash.
hahahaha I have to laugh at all the failed attempts against your posts. I especially like the guy trying to compare stats from the 90's to now...

Kreider will be a stud, and has been so everywhere he has played so far. Kid is built for the NHL...He might not be a top 10 prospect, but he certainly is much better than 30 like some insanely suggest.


and ahhh I miss Dan Quinn....didnt his career get derailed by an illness or career ending injury??


Last edited by piqued: 12-29-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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12-29-2012, 06:13 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
hahahaha I have to laugh at all the failed attempts against your posts. I especially like the guy trying to compare stats from the 90's to now...

Kreider will be a stud, and has been so everywhere he has played so far. Kid is built for the NHL...He might not be a top 10 prospect, but he certainly is much better than 30 like some insanely suggest.


and ahhh I miss Dan Quinn....didnt his career get derailed by an illness or career ending injury??
Sorry, but a 0.81 PPG over 3 college seasons is not a stud at all. A 0.37 PPG in the AHL (so far) is not a stud. He's never been a stud anywhere. He's only a stud to those who see size and speed and completely ignore everything else.


Last edited by piqued: 12-29-2012 at 09:26 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
12-29-2012, 06:14 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Dan Quinn was a 40 goal scorer. Krusher once scored 43.
Quinn scored 40 once, and never hit 25 again once he turned 25.

Krushelnyski's career high outside of that one year was 26. He topped 20 goals on time after he turned 25.

Quote:
I'll give you credit for trying, but that's about it.

Atkinson on the season had One PP goal and one PP assist. His TOI and amount of shifts didnt change much from his first game to the last. Prospal was the team's leading scorer after Nash.
Both of Atkinson's PP points came in the last four games of the season. Y'know, when he was actually on the PP and not relegated to fourth-line duty.

Are you going to continue to tell me how Columbus used their forwards this past year? I sure could use the lesson, since apparently watching the games and keeping an eye on this type of stuff isn't enough.

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12-29-2012, 06:21 PM
  #241
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It'll be interesting to see how he does once the league resumes. If he is pale the rest of the season, Rangers might not be too happy since they need players on ELCs to contribute for the cap puzzle to be solved.

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12-29-2012, 08:08 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Quinn scored 40 once, and never hit 25 again once he turned 25.

Krushelnyski's career high outside of that one year was 26. He topped 20 goals on time after he turned 25.
Your list was odd. None of the guys you mentioned went straight from the NCAA or CHL right into the SC playoffs. It was a useless list, at least in this thread. In fact, most of the guys played 20+ games at the NHL level before the playoffs. The reason why so many people are high on Kreider heading into this season was based off his inexperience and subsequent production in last seasons NHL playoffs

Kreider's situation was unique. He went straight from the NCAA to the thick of the NHL playoffs, bypassing the AHL altogether.

Instead of wasting your time cherrypicking random names of playoff rookies (many who were two-way forwards not scorers) with prior NHL/AHL experience, try finding the names of players who did what Kreider did. That is, straight from the NCAA to the NHL playoffs, and how they produced.

Quote:
Both of Atkinson's PP points came in the last four games of the season. Y'know, when he was actually on the PP and not relegated to fourth-line duty.

Are you going to continue to tell me how Columbus used their forwards this past year? I sure could use the lesson, since apparently watching the games and keeping an eye on this type of stuff isn't enough.
4th liners play 15 and 16 minutes a game? Maybe in Columbus. Kinda odd considering Prospal wasnt a 4th liner yet he was his linemate for most of his first 15 or so NHL games.

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12-29-2012, 08:47 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Sorry, but a 0.81 PPG over 3 college seasons is not a stud at all. A 0.37 PPG in the AHL (so far) is not a stud. He's never been a stud anywhere. He's only a stud to those who see size and speed and completely ignore everything else.
I like how you fail to metion how Kreider's PPG increased every year at BC (shocker when you consider his role grew each season).

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12-29-2012, 09:01 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
I like how you fail to metion how Kreider's PPG increased every year at BC (shocker when you consider his role grew each season).
Keep grasping at those straws.

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12-29-2012, 09:07 PM
  #245
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Are there people in here suggesting that the Rangers are a team that doesn't develop their own talent?
Mind-boggling isn't it? I challenge them to name another team in the league as successful and homegrown as the rangers have been recently without a top five pick.

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12-29-2012, 09:22 PM
  #246
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He is a very good prospect but I think being overrated by his fans by a lot. He will be exciting to watch for years to come with his combination of speed and size, but I don't think he will be an ideal top line forward.

Also, the guy at the beginning of the thread who kept bringing up Kreider setting the record for goals in the playoffs... well it really isn't anything impressive at all, that record, to be honest. I hope he does pretty well, aside from being on the Rangers still.

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12-29-2012, 09:25 PM
  #247
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Mind-boggling isn't it? I challenge them to name another team in the league as successful and homegrown as the rangers have been recently without a top five pick.
Bruins have some studs, such as Lucic, Bergeron, and Marchand for starters.... perhaps Boychuk too although that is more debatable.

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12-29-2012, 09:34 PM
  #248
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Keep grasping at those straws.
I have no problem admitting that Kreider has stunk up the joint in the AHL. I also dont care. But saying he was a marginal player in college should be grounds for being certified.

Look at the sources, and then look at yourself.

Wall Street Journal
Boston Globe
New York Times
NBC Sports
Sporting News
Salem News

HF Boards Poster......

Quote:
At Boston College, Kreider used his size (he stands 6-foot-3 and weighs 225 pounds) and speed to become one of the NCAA's most dominant forwards, racking up 23 goals and 45 points in 44 games as a junior.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...617593494.html

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Individually, Kreider totaled career bests in goals (24), assists (22) and points (46) while leading the Eagles in scoring and ranking 15th in the nation in total points. He had four points in four tournament games.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/stor...s-carl-hagelin

Quote:
Kreider — New York’s first-round selection at the 2009 draft — will lead Boston College into the Frozen Four next week in Tampa. The 20-year-old scored 43 points in 42 games this year, leading the Eagles in scoring and emerging as one of the NCAA’s best talents.
Quote:
One well-respected NHL executive raved about his speed when talking about Kreider’s game, and has no doubt he’s physically ready.

“That’s a legitimate NHL player,” he said.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...e-this-season/

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“The big games, the big stage - and that’s what the second half is - that’s when he is at his best,’’ said Cross. “What I’ve been watching in the last two weeks, it’s the best I’ve ever seen him play. It’s unbelievable what he’s doing, it’s great. I’m so happy for him. It’s unheard of.’’

Quote:
Although college coaches are never happy to see players leave early, there was no doubt in York’s mind that the Boxford, Mass., native was ready to take the next step in his blossoming career, but York didn’t expect Kreider to make such an impact so soon.

“His size, his strength, the way he’s improved his hockey IQ, he’s gotten so much better,’’ said York. “But I was kind of hoping myself that he’d wait and go through a regular NHL training camp and be part of a team from the get-go. That’s hard to do, but this is extremely difficult to do, what he’s been asked to step in. The Rangers have had a remarkable year and for him to be a major part of it, that’s asking a lot of a young kid.’’
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/20...dGO/story.html

Quote:
Kreider, a New York Rangers prospect, scored for the 21st and 22nd times this season, the goals coming 7:39 into the first period and with 1:21 remaining in the game. As he has done before, Kreider elevated his play when the most was on the line: this time, a date in Sunday night’s quarterfinal. Kreider was quick to credit his linemates.

Kreider will get the chance to continue his clutch play in tournaments on Sunday night, when the Eagles take on Minnesota-Duluth with a trip to the Frozen Four at stake.

The 22 goals for Kreider tie him with senior forward Barry Almeida for the team lead in goals this season. Kreider is also B.C.’s active leader in N.C.A.A. tournament scoring with three goals and 5 points.
http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-wake-up-call/

Quote:
Air Force Academy head hockey coach Frank Serratore knew if his team was going to upset Boston College tonight during the Northeast Regional semifinals here the DCU Center, they’d have to do so in a low-scoring affair.

Tonigh’ts game was just that, with only one player scoring for either team.

Unfortunately for Serratore and his squad, that player was Chris Kreider, the Boston College junior star from Boxford.

“The kid who scored the two goals for BC, where’s he going to be playing in three weeks: New York?” asked Serratore, alluding to the rampant speculation that Kreider will join the NHL team that drafted him in the first round three years ago, the New York Rangers, when his college season is over. “That’s what special players do.”
http://blogs.salemnews.com/nssports/...ck-in-elite-8/

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12-29-2012, 09:51 PM
  #249
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I have no problem admitting that Kreider has stunk up the joint in the AHL. I also dont care. But saying he was a marginal player in college should be grounds for being certified
Why, because you dont like it? Please. Facts are facts. The fact is, over his entire college career, his production was mediocre. Thus far in the AHL, his production is mediocre. Whether you care or not doesnt change the facts. History also shows that players in north american juniors/college who put up mediocre production very rarely go on to have anything more than mediocre production at the highest level of the world. Yes, there are always exceptions, but thats all they are. Expecting Kreider to be the exception and not the rule is simply wishful thinking.

And all those articles you quoted? Good for you. He had a good junior season. Great. he also had mediocre freshman and sophomore seasons, and has been mediocre in the AHL so far.

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12-29-2012, 09:52 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by NathanHortonFan View Post
Bruins have some studs, such as Lucic, Bergeron, and Marchand for starters.... perhaps Boychuk too although that is more debatable.
You also have a #2 overall pick in seguin who was instrumental in your cup victory.

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