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Mark Scheifele for Phil Kessel

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:29 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes and also the trade option too which is why teams prefer to draft their players (just as the Winnipeg fans have stated they want).

I see where theyre coming from.
You said that those soon to be UFAs would cost the Leafs, yes, the 1 Billion dollar Leafs, a pretty penny. There was no trade option implied as the 3 listed were based on the fact of them being UFAs after the season, and if Peg fans want to draft talent, no harm there, but if they are turning down a top 10 winger for a top 6 C prospect, then it's laughable in my mind.

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12-29-2012, 12:31 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
You said that those soon to be UFAs would cost the Leafs, yes, the 1 Billion dollar Leafs, a pretty penny. There was no trade option implied as the 3 listed were based on the fact of them being UFAs after the season, and if Peg fans want to draft talent, no harm there, but if they are turning down a top 10 winger for a top 6 C prospect, then it's laughable in my mind.
Didnt realize they were UFA's and the Leafs had CAPSPACE to allow for them but anyway.

DOesnt matter how much the Leafs make a year because they are under the same cap system as every other team.

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12-29-2012, 12:34 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Didnt realize they were UFA's and the Leafs had CAPSPACE to allow for them but anyway.

DOesnt matter how much the Leafs make a year because they are under the same cap system as every other team.
Have you seen the Leafs cap situation? It's one of the very best in the NHL.

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12-29-2012, 12:41 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Didnt realize they were UFA's and the Leafs had CAPSPACE to allow for them but anyway.

DOesnt matter how much the Leafs make a year because they are under the same cap system as every other team.
Sorry but we would have about 14M after resigns if we drop MacA, Lombo, Connolly, Steckel, and if they include 1 buyout, which would be crazy to not use on Komi, they would have 18.5, which, under a 60M cap, is still 8.3M in cap space. Getzlaf-capable.

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12-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #230
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in the National Interview League, this is an intriguing trade indeed. You have Mark "You know?" Scheifele and Phil "Asperger's" Kessel.

One guy is manic and barely able to form the sentences, the other is not fully sure he wants to communicate with other human beings.

I guess you go with Scheifele, but there are so many questions.

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12-29-2012, 12:49 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Sorry but we would have about 14M after resigns if we drop MacA, Lombo, Connolly, Steckel, and if they include 1 buyout, which would be crazy to not use on Komi, they would have 18.5, which, under a 60M cap, is still 8.3M in cap space. Getzlaf-capable.
If if's and but's were candy and nuts the Leafs would have made the playoffs sometime in the past few years.

Ive seen all these half baked ideas for the past five years about how we would have three Cups by now but none of them happened.

Getzlaf wont sign with a loser that's all I know.

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12-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
You said that those soon to be UFAs would cost the Leafs, yes, the 1 Billion dollar Leafs, a pretty penny. There was no trade option implied as the 3 listed were based on the fact of them being UFAs after the season, and if Peg fans want to draft talent, no harm there, but if they are turning down a top 10 winger for a top 6 C prospect, then it's laughable in my mind.
It comes down to simple organizational needs, and contractual situation. Kessel is a UFA next year - he may not re-sign with the Jets if this trade (however unlikely) were to go down.

Read some of the comments from Jets posters as to why they don't feel Kessel is appropriate for the Jets roster at this stage of the game. Not one of the Jets fans who've chimed in have stated that Scheifele is "better" than Kessel, or that Kessel isn't a great winger. He would simply be wasted with the Jets current make-up, and would not propel the Jets to a(n) SCF visit, while leaving the prospect cupboard bare.

The Jets also have more need at centre than they do at wing. The Jets will have the same difficulty that the Leafs are having finding an appropriate centre for Kessel to play with. While Kessel is a great player, he just doesn't fit current needs for the Jets, and would end up being a short term rental.

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12-29-2012, 12:53 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If if's and but's were candy and nuts the Leafs would have made the playoffs sometime in the past few years.

Ive seen all these half baked ideas for the past five years about how we would have three Cups by now but none of them happened.

Getzlaf wont sign with a loser that's all I know.
Well, did you know that BOTH of the top UFAs signed with a team that only finished 1 place ahead of us? And the only if I had in there was the buyout clause which will probably happen anyways.

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12-29-2012, 01:06 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Well, did you know that BOTH of the top UFAs signed with a team that only finished 1 place ahead of us? And the only if I had in there was the buyout clause which will probably happen anyways.
No amnesty clause will be included in any proposal accepted from the NHLPA.

You really think Fehr will let 30 of his clients out to dry?

No. He wont/

But the biggest assumption you are making is if the Leafs are capable of spending wisely.

The other year they had $8 million they signed Connolly and Lombardi.

The year before Komisarek, Beauchemain, Orr, and Gustavsson.

No evidence the Leafs are capable of landing big fish especially in the big tax region of Ontario.

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12-29-2012, 01:18 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No amnesty clause will be included in any proposal accepted from the NHLPA.

You really think Fehr will let 30 of his clients out to dry?

No. He wont/

But the biggest assumption you are making is if the Leafs are capable of spending wisely.

The other year they had $8 million they signed Connolly and Lombardi.

The year before Komisarek, Beauchemain, Orr, and Gustavsson.

No evidence the Leafs are capable of landing big fish especially in the big tax region of Ontario.
Damn, have you been following the talks? It's the NHL that doesn't want an amnesty clause, not the NHLPA.
Quote:
The NHL has said it doesn’t want transition rules like amnesty buyouts or limits on escrow in the new collective bargaining agreement.
Connolly-top 6 C with injury problems, was the 2nd best center out there.
Beachemin-top 4 D.
Komi-At the time, top 2 D playing with Markov.
Orr-4th liner, 1M isn't much.
Gustavvson-Highly regarded goalie prospect, all teams wanted to sign him. You'll eat your words after a season in Detroit.
Lombardi wasn't signed you -----. Go do some reasearch before you post.

And before, you were saying that you could sign a top UFA like Kessel, but now we can't in Canada?

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12-29-2012, 03:00 PM
  #236
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Personally speaking if Toronto was to trade Phil Kessel I would hope they at least get the same type of package deal that Philadelphia was able to get for Mike Richards and Jeff Carter.

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12-29-2012, 03:25 PM
  #237
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Hockey no longer needs to be watched in black and white... lets stop looking at is as such

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12-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Heista18 View Post
I'm not going to pretend I know what Winnipeg needs, but I know what the Leafs need. Let's take a look at this potential deal up close by comparing the two main pieces.

Mark Scheifele is a 6'3 centre who brings size and skill to the table, something they obviously seem to lack in Winnipeg's prospect pool. He utilizes a combination of size, speed, smarts, skill, and vision. Playing against the best centers in the OHL every game, he seems to be learning quickly. Although playing in a losing environment on his current team, he most definitely is putting up some nice numbers.

Phil Kessel on the other hand, is proven. We all know this. Kessel is a marvel to watch. He combines dazzling moves with excellent hockey sense, tremendous poise and confidence with the puck, a tireless work ethic, and a very professional approach to the game. Kessel is a player who can make those around him better and has the ability to make things happen. His excellent hockey sense can assure you he won't be caught in the wrong position enabling him to be the recipient of a big, injuring hit (Hello 70-82 game seasons for the club). One attribute that immediately jumps out about Kessel is his extraordinary skating ability. His explosive speed and effortless strides are what set him apart from just about every other player in the nation. Another characteristic that makes Kessel such a highly-regarded player is the way he thinks the game. He is immensely smart and contains great vision. He has shown that he can read and anticipate plays quite well. Furthermore, he is very good at finding open spaces on the ice, knows just where the developing play is going, and where he needs to be.

Usually lost in this solely "high offensive firepower shooter" from mostly other peoples perspective, is his passing ability. He is a superb and extremely creative playmaker. He makes outstanding tape-to-tape passes and has little trouble finding open passing lanes. He has also demonstrated a keen sense of making the right decisions with the puck.

Fortunately for me, I don't put as much weight in the proven section as most would, I understand players by watching them, reading their personality types and whether or not the young prospect being targeted will thrive and learn to fulfill his draft pedigree. I truly believe Mark will.

On another note, I don't believe he will ever surpass Kessel's point totals. I look at the overall grand theme of things, the team. The Leafs need a centre of his caliber more than Kessel's elite offensive play on the wing. It's what I believe would benefit us with wins in the long run through overall team Chemistry.

And so, Winnipeg Jets GM's, I ask you, what are your thoughts on this proposal:

Mark Scheifele
2nd round draft pick 2013
1st round draft pick 2014

-For-

Phil Kessel

Keep in mind I put some EFFORT in, please do the same if you'd like to reply.

Keep in mind, I am weighing heavily on perry joining us.
Well to TO. Fans kessel is as valuable as Gretzky so offer 10 picks and half the team and they would all say no.

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12-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #239
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Well to TO. Fans kessel is as valuable as Gretzky so offer 10 picks and half the team and they would all say no.
If you bothered reading the topic, you would know that there have been plenty of Toronto fans who want to trade Kessel for a reasonable price.

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12-29-2012, 04:21 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by YWGinYYZ View Post
It comes down to simple organizational needs, and contractual situation. Kessel is a UFA next year - he may not re-sign with the Jets if this trade (however unlikely) were to go down.

Read some of the comments from Jets posters as to why they don't feel Kessel is appropriate for the Jets roster at this stage of the game. Not one of the Jets fans who've chimed in have stated that Scheifele is "better" than Kessel, or that Kessel isn't a great winger. He would simply be wasted with the Jets current make-up, and would not propel the Jets to a(n) SCF visit, while leaving the prospect cupboard bare.

The Jets also have more need at centre than they do at wing. The Jets will have the same difficulty that the Leafs are having finding an appropriate centre for Kessel to play with. While Kessel is a great player, he just doesn't fit current needs for the Jets, and would end up being a short term rental.
Quoting for truth.

Winnipeg fans aren't hating on Kessel because we don't want to do the deal. Kessel is a great player, but we want to build through our own young players (like Scheifele) instead.

There's no trade to be had here.

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12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
  #241
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I would not be trading Scheifele for Kessel.

I am not a fan of Kessel and what he doesn't bring

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12-29-2012, 04:40 PM
  #242
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Kessal is the better player and will likely put up more points than Scheifele in their careers.

That being said, one year of Phil Kessal is not worth 7 years of Mark Scheifele. Too some teams it would be,, Vancouver and Pittsburgh for example. But Winnipeg is simply not in a position right now to ' go for it' as the expression goes.

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12-29-2012, 04:42 PM
  #243
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I would not be trading Scheifele for Kessel.

I am not a fan of Kessel and what he doesn't bring
lol this is just ridiculous. Schiefele for Kessel is an absolute steal for whoever is getting Kessel

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12-29-2012, 04:46 PM
  #244
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lol this is just ridiculous. Schiefele for Kessel is an absolute steal for whoever is getting Kessel
Yeah well assuming restricted contact rules take a player until 26 the Jets are basically guaranteed to have Scheifele until then.

Kessel is only guaranteed until 2013-14.

We don't know what Kessel wants or will do.

The Bruins even thought they'd have him for 7+ years but he flaked out.

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12-29-2012, 04:48 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No amnesty clause will be included in any proposal accepted from the NHLPA.

You really think Fehr will let 30 of his clients out to dry?
You seem to be a little confused. How are these guys getting left hung out to dry? They would be getting *more* money, not less.

If Scott Gomez is bought out of the last year of his $7.5 million contract he gets $7.5 million then he's an unrestricted free agent. He then signs a 1-year $1.5 million deal with the Winnipeg Jets and he makes $9 million next season instead of $7.5 Sounds like a sweet deal to me.

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12-29-2012, 04:52 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yeah well assuming restricted contact rules take a player until 26 the Jets are basically guaranteed to have Scheifele until then.

Kessel is only guaranteed until 2013-14.

We don't know what Kessel wants or will do.

The Bruins even thought they'd have him for 7+ years but he flaked out.
Any deal around Kessel would almost certainly hinge on an extension... just like the last Kessel deal.

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12-29-2012, 04:52 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
You seem to be a little confused. How are these guys getting left hung out to dry? They would be getting *more* money, not less.

If Scott Gomez is bought out of the last year of his $7.5 million contract he gets $7.5 million then he's an unrestricted free agent. He then signs a 1-year $1.5 million deal with the Winnipeg Jets and he makes $9 million next season instead of $7.5 Sounds like a sweet deal to me.
I misunderstood. My bad.

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12-29-2012, 04:54 PM
  #248
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Any deal around Kessel would almost certainly hinge on an extension... just like the last Kessel deal.
Difference though is UFA (future situation) versus RFA (past situation) y'see.

In UFA Kessel is not bound to his old team and is free to negotiate amongst all of the 30 teams

In RFA Kessel is bound to his old team and is only free to negotiate amongst any of the 30 teams that are willing to trade for his contracting rights. The Leafs were successful amongst the bidders with the Boston Bruins being under threat of an offer sheet (1st round, 2nd round, 3rd round pick compensation under the old CBA terms)

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12-29-2012, 05:33 PM
  #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweech View Post
Quoting for truth.

Winnipeg fans aren't hating on Kessel because we don't want to do the deal. Kessel is a great player, but we want to build through our own young players (like Scheifele) instead.

There's no trade to be had here.
Also QFT, but unfortunately Sweech, I think very few on the Leafs side are listening the reasoning regarding why this trade doesn't make sense for Winnipeg (or for the Leafs, for that matter).

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12-29-2012, 05:38 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Difference though is UFA (future situation) versus RFA (past situation) y'see.

In UFA Kessel is not bound to his old team and is free to negotiate amongst all of the 30 teams

In RFA Kessel is bound to his old team and is only free to negotiate amongst any of the 30 teams that are willing to trade for his contracting rights. The Leafs were successful amongst the bidders with the Boston Bruins being under threat of an offer sheet (1st round, 2nd round, 3rd round pick compensation under the old CBA terms)
It really doesn't matter... a contract will be negotiated prior to the trade. An extension for an RFA or an UFA doesn't change anything other than perhaps market value. Shea Weber kind of threw that out the door though.

Just like the Jays with Dickey, you work out a trade that you can agree upon and then give the team a certain time frame to work out an extension.

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