That is actually pretty shocking for the size of those markets...
Race shouldn't make any difference.
I can't speak for where the Oil Kings and the Hitmen play but here in Vancouver the Giants play out of the old pacific coliseum in east van which is a vast Chinese neighborhood.
Well it does, immigrants from a brown none hockey country aren't going to go watch hockey.
That is actually pretty shocking for the size of those markets...
Race shouldn't make any difference.
I can't speak for where the Oil Kings and the Hitmen play but here in Vancouver the Giants play out of the old pacific coliseum in east van which is a vast Chinese neighborhood.
I grew-up in Toronto and took the subway to school. I am a city kid.
PARTS of Toronto are still Hockey Hot-Beds, but with 52% of the City being non-English-speaking immigrants, Toronto is a Hockey Town like New York City is a hockey town. It depends what part of town you are in !
The 905 Belt is the Hockey epicentre of the GTA now ...
Earlier this month when I drove to and from Orlando, Florida part of the route I take is the 407 ETR and I live in Thornhill which is a suburb of Toronto. Along the 407 I always happen to see the Powerade Centre where the Brampton Battalion play and the location couldn't be any farther from Toronto itself.
OP didn't claim anything, he just posted an article with that headline. The author of the article needs a lesson in logic and reasoning or he was just making a boisterous claim for page hits. The fact that the Battalion relocated out of Bramton shows that GTA might not be an OHL town anymore. Nothing more.
You're right "Brampton Battalion relocation proves Toronto isn't a hockey town" is the title for the article, not the OP's own words. OP has been littering the same sentiment in this thread though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Toronto is a leaf town, not a hockey town IMHO. To many professional hockey teams have failed or struggle in Toronto/GTA.
What baffles me is the fact that OP is from Toronto. There are so many hockey fans in Toronto who don't cheer for the Leafs, yet "Toronto is a leaf town, not a hockey town". Ask most people on the street about hockey, whether black, white, or orange and you're likely to get into a conversation about how bad the Maple Leafs perform, yet "Toronto is a leaf town, not a hockey town". It's not unusual to see the Maple Leafs on the front covers of newspapers yet, Toronto is not a hockey town.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the ACC is much easier to get to than Ricoh?
Quite honestly, I would say Toronto is more of a Leafs city, than a hockey city in general. I lived in Toronto for about a year (so not a long sample of time) and the city would shut down for Leafs games. I hate the Leafs with a passion, so I couldn't careless about their games, so during the playoffs I went for a walk in my neighbourhood and the streets were deserted. However, when any other Toronto team (of any sport) was playing this was not the case. It is telling that for one of the Eastern Conference Final games played in Carolina, the Leafs had at least a half full (if not three quarters) ACC for fans watching the game on TV. Granted, it was like $5/ticket, which is why my girlfriend and I went to it too. (I was one of about three people in the arena not cheering for the Leafs.)
I would think that if the city was more hockey fans in general, than Leafs fans only, the Marlies wouldn't even play at Ricoh, MLSE would have them play at the ACC. There would be an OHL team somewhere within the City of Toronto too. Neither of these is the case and I think it is a case of it is the Leafs or bust. The other thing I would point to is that it is much more difficult via public transit to get to Ricoh (or St. Mike's arena when the Majors were there) than it is to get to the ACC. However, the flipside of the Marlies is that the Leafs don't promote them heavily, like they do the NHL team. I would think that there are likely a portion of people who live in Toronto that are unaware the Marlies even exist.
However, this is not a phenomenon that is unique to Toronto. Most major cities seem to embrace their "major league" team and neglect the lower levels of play in the same sport. Montreal seems to have the same problem, how many QMJHL teams have came and left due to poor attendance?
Los Angeles has the same issue with basketball, the Clippers and Lakers (and UCLA and USC) draw well, but the D-League's DFenders moved to the Toyota Sports Center and play out of a gym that has a capacity of 300 as nobody turned out.
Very few cities see the phenomenon experienced in Calgary, Vancouver or Edmonton. However, in the Hitmen and Oil Kings case, I think a lot of the attendance for the WHL games comes via the tickets included with Oilers or Flames season tickets. The Giants in Vancouver, I have no specific explanation for since they aren't owned by the Canucks. The only thing I can figure is it is a case of an f you toward the Canuck ownership by fans priced out of the NHL.
What, a couple of people? Do you know how many immigrants I've encountered you never watch hockey?
I have no specific evidence of immigrants actually playing, but it is telling when CBC airs Hockey Night in Canada every Saturday (and every playoff game they carry) in Punjabi. They wouldn't waste the satellite space and money broadcasting the game in Punjabi, if they didn't have an audience that watched it. Since the majority of the games shown on HNIC are Leafs games (and when there is a split broadcast the Punjabi games are the Leafs games), I would suggest that a good portion of immigrants in Toronto are hockey fans.
I would think that if the city was more hockey fans in general, than Leafs fans only, the Marlies wouldn't even play at Ricoh, MLSE would have them play at the ACC.
The problem with that is the Maple Leafs also share the Air Canada Centre with the Toronto Raptors and Toronto Rock. So there aren't enough dates to accomodate the Marlies for a full AHL season. However during the 2012 Calder Cup Playoffs the Richo was sold out for all the Marlies home games right until Games 3 & 4 of the Calder Cup Finals. So the people of Toronto came out to support them.
The problem with that is the Maple Leafs also share the Air Canada Centre with the Toronto Raptors and Toronto Rock. So there aren't enough dates to accomodate the Marlies for a full AHL season. However during the 2012 Calder Cup Playoffs the Richo was sold out for all the Marlies home games right until Games 3 & 4 of the Calder Cup Finals. So the people of Toronto came out to support them.
I'm sure if the Marlies were to get consistent Rock sized attendance, the Marlies would be in and my Rock would be out. The Rock really don't pose a huge issue with the schedule since they rarely play two games in a weekend and are on the road every other weekend. I mean Staples Center makes it work with two NBA teams and the Kings (as well as all the other events going on there). It might mean that the Marlies get a 2 PM game on a Saturday afternoon as a curtain raiser for the Leafs game though.
I'm sure if the Marlies were to get consistent Rock sized attendance, the Marlies would be in and my Rock would be out. The Rock really don't pose a huge issue with the schedule since they rarely play two games in a weekend and are on the road every other weekend. I mean Staples Center makes it work with two NBA teams and the Kings (as well as all the other events going on there). It might mean that the Marlies get a 2 PM game on a Saturday afternoon as a curtain raiser for the Leafs game though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Staples Center schedule a lot of Kings games on weekend afternoons, then at night it's changed over for a Lakers or Clippers game? If so I guess that's how they make things work there during the regular season.
While it's true the Rock crowds don't come close to a Maple Leafs or Raptors crowd they are still a less expensive game to see and maybe if the Marlies played at the Air Canada Centre more often with great crowds it could push the Rock out. However I doubt it's something we will see happen.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Staples Center schedule a lot of Kings games on weekend afternoons, then at night it's changed over for a Lakers or Clippers game? If so I guess that's how they make things work there during the regular season.
While it's true the Rock crowds don't come close to a Maple Leafs or Raptors crowd they are still a less expensive game to see and maybe if the Marlies played at the Air Canada Centre more often with great crowds it could push the Rock out. However I doubt it's something we will see happen.
Yes, in one 48 hour period during the playoffs, there was a NBA game one evening, the Kings at noon and a NBA game at 7 and then I think the other NBA team played the next evening. Staples Center uses two setups, one for the Clippers and one for the Lakers and different floors, baskets etc. so a Clippers to a Lakers game isn't a quick turn around.
You misunderstood what I was saying. The Rock draw pretty well, I believe last year was their lowest average attendance since moving into the ACC and they drew a shade over 10,000. If the Marlies could get those sized crowds consistently, MLSE would kick the Rock out in a heartbeat. Why? More profit for them. The Rock I believe pay rent to the tune of $40,000 per game at the ACC, but receive the profits from concessions for their games (plus ticketsales). So with the Marlies at the ACC, MLSE would lose out on the rent, but would get all the profits from concessions which would even out the loss of rent. Plus, they wouldn't need to rent Ricoh from the CNE (or City of Toronto) for Marlies games.
Yes, in one 48 hour period during the playoffs, there was a NBA game one evening, the Kings at noon and a NBA game at 7 and then I think the other NBA team played the next evening. Staples Center uses two setups, one for the Clippers and one for the Lakers and different floors, baskets etc. so a Clippers to a Lakers game isn't a quick turn around.
You misunderstood what I was saying. The Rock draw pretty well, I believe last year was their lowest average attendance since moving into the ACC and they drew a shade over 10,000. If the Marlies could get those sized crowds consistently, MLSE would kick the Rock out in a heartbeat. Why? More profit for them. The Rock I believe pay rent to the tune of $40,000 per game at the ACC, but receive the profits from concessions for their games (plus ticketsales). So with the Marlies at the ACC, MLSE would lose out on the rent, but would get all the profits from concessions which would even out the loss of rent. Plus, they wouldn't need to rent Ricoh from the CNE (or City of Toronto) for Marlies games.
Could it be done having the Marlies playing full time at the Air Canada Centre? Anything is possible and I think it's something they should look into. However the one thing against that is the 41 home games for the Maple Leafs and the Raptors. So they some how need to work around that.
I realize how things are done at the Staples Center and I think it's great they can have 1 NHL team and 2 NBA teams playing in the same arena, even having multiple sports being played on both days. It's something done in Philadelphia with the Flyers and Sixers. However let's remember the Air Canada Centre is different and they need to work out having an NHL, NBA and AHL team playing there full time. So just because other arenas can play Hockey and Basketball on the same day doesn't mean it will work everywhere else.
I have no specific evidence of immigrants actually playing, but it is telling when CBC airs Hockey Night in Canada every Saturday (and every playoff game they carry) in Punjabi. They wouldn't waste the satellite space and money broadcasting the game in Punjabi, if they didn't have an audience that watched it. Since the majority of the games shown on HNIC are Leafs games (and when there is a split broadcast the Punjabi games are the Leafs games), I would suggest that a good portion of immigrants in Toronto are hockey fans.
I have no stats to back it up but from my experience growing up in the GTA I would estimate that less than 15% are actually hockey fans.
Soccer and basketball dominate the immigrant communities.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it impossible to have a shared ice rink? The ice needs to be melted, the floor re painted or surfaced, then the ice needs to be frozen again to complete the transformation. There would have to be day intervals for this to even be plausible and considering AHL is very weekend heavy and Toronto plays a majority of Saturdaygames at home, there would be a lot of clashing.
I have no specific evidence of immigrants actually playing, but it is telling when CBC airs Hockey Night in Canada every Saturday (and every playoff game they carry) in Punjabi. They wouldn't waste the satellite space and money broadcasting the game in Punjabi, if they didn't have an audience that watched it. Since the majority of the games shown on HNIC are Leafs games (and when there is a split broadcast the Punjabi games are the Leafs games), I would suggest that a good portion of immigrants in Toronto are hockey fans.
I would beg to differ, I know a lot of second and third generation immigrants still not into hockey, and many friends from Brampton and Markham (both immigrant heavy) are not into hockey either. A lot of the European immigrants have embraced it, but the Asian and middle eastern populations have a small percentage that follow and or play the sport.
