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Canadians insist they won't dive to get calls

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #51
fly4apuckguy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
Hogwash.
"Old time hockey" Eddie Shore was a known diver and embellisher. Players have always pushed the limits of what they could get away with.
I agree that there have always been divers, but at no time in Canadian or American hockey history was it used as an integral part of their game plan.

Rogue individuals vs. team concepts.

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12-29-2012, 04:06 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
Hogwash.
"Old time hockey" Eddie Shore was a renowned diver and embellisher. Players have always pushed the limits of what they could get away with, regardless of nationality.
Don't go breaking the fuzzy warm illusions of the good ol' days! It was SO much better back when our boys were breaking the ankles of the other teams best players

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12-29-2012, 04:09 PM
  #53
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Old
12-29-2012, 04:17 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Rexor View Post
Seems like an obvious attempt to put more pressure on the refs.



The worst are Catalans.
Again, everyone dives - it just easy for the bigots to blame other nations.

Did anyone catch Bale's antics of late? How about South Americans?

Gotta love the Brits, they still condemn diving and will call out their own, unlike Canadians on this board or Ray Ferraro that display double standards. It's smart if Canadian boys do it, but God forbid if Russians go down.

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12-29-2012, 04:29 PM
  #55
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I take diving over injuring opposing players any day. You can dive all you want, but if you deliberately injure the opposition you deserve to be given a two-hander with a stick across your face and disqualified.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I hope they don't. Didn't care for Schiefele's yesterday. It certainly isn't the Canadian way to do it, or at least there was a time (maybe not this generation) where Canadians as a general rule wouldn't act like European soccer players. I always hope we don't score when there is a powerplay from a ridiculous dive. I honestly do. I never like it when we start taking the cue of Russian and European teams. We're supposed to be better than that.
Here's an example of why national pride is bad. Xenophobic hateful generalizing ****ers on their high horses.

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12-29-2012, 04:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
I would say that diving is far worse; I cannot stand diving. On the other hand, if a player tries to injure another within the rules than it is all good. I used to love watching Scott Stevens, the old Phanuef in Calgary, and Bryan Marchment do bone crunching open ice hits.
Bobby Clarke, Patrice Cormier.

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12-29-2012, 04:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I take diving over injuring opposing players any day. You can dive all you want, but if you deliberately injure the opposition you deserve to be given a two-hander with a stick across your face and disqualified.


You need to step away from the keyboard.

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12-29-2012, 04:43 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I hope they don't. Didn't care for Schiefele's yesterday. It certainly isn't the Canadian way to do it, or at least there was a time (maybe not this generation) where Canadians as a general rule wouldn't act like European soccer players. I always hope we don't score when there is a powerplay from a ridiculous dive. I honestly do. I never like it when we start taking the cue of Russian and European teams. We're supposed to be better than that.
Seriously? Wow. Just wow.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Statement bolded for truth. Mikus was not hurt, never was hurt, faked the whole thing, and now we lose Lipon for a game (not necessarily a bad thing, actually).

Faking injuries works. That's sick but true.
You lose Lipon for a game because of stupid and dirty hit. And 1 game suspension is going pretty easy on him. Beranek hit was not even close to this and player who got hit (Armia?) also didn't get injured and Beranek was still suspended, Not like i'm complaining though, because it was still a headshot.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:57 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I agree that there have always been divers, but at no time in Canadian or American hockey history was it used as an integral part of their game plan.

Rogue individuals vs. team concepts.
You are incorrect.

In years past, players were required to pace themselves because shift length was much much longer. Embellishment was often used as a means to get a team precious rest time. It could be a very strategic move in certain situations. It's likely what Eddie Shore's theatrics were about more so than attempting to draw a penalty.
Diving, embellishing, theatrics, is as old as the game of hockey. This means, as with everything else in the game, its origins are uniquely Canadian.


Last edited by Hanji: 12-29-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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Old
12-29-2012, 05:01 PM
  #62
fly4apuckguy
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Originally Posted by helgo View Post
You lose Lipon for a game because of stupid and dirty hit. And 1 game suspension is going pretty easy on him. Beranek hit was not even close to this and player who got hit (Armia?) also didn't get injured and Beranek was still suspended, Not like i'm complaining though, because it was still a headshot.
The hit Lipon made, while illegal, was not a viscious hit by any stretch. Obviously the player was faking being hurt. He got up and scored like ten seconds later.

I agree with the one game suspension in an IIHF tournament, though, because the rule about any contact to the head is pretty clear.

That would be a two minute elbowing penalty with no further discipline in any North American peewee hockey game, though, let's be honest. No self-respecting peewee player with a helmet would lie there on the ice pretending he was injured, so the kid would get an elbowing minor and all would be forgotten two minutes later.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:07 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by gretskidoo View Post
Here's an example of why national pride is bad. Xenophobic hateful generalizing ****ers on their high horses.
What he said is not politically correct but it is the truth. Good ol' Canadian boys played hard, try to injure and intimidate the other teams, played hurt and never ever dove.
Think Wendel Clark

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:13 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
You are incorrect.

In years past, players were required to pace themselves because shift length was much much longer. Embellishment was often used as a means to get a team precious rest time. It could be a very strategic move in certain situations. It's likely what Eddie Shore's theatrics were about more so than attempting to draw a penalty.
Diving, embellishing, theatrics, is as old as the game of hockey. This means, as with everything else in the game, its origins are uniquely Canadian.
The only reason I am quoting this is so that later on I can find the most outrageous post I have ever read and have another good laugh.

My dad actually knew Eddie Shore and his family. Tubby Shore was a really good friend of my dad's, in fact. He would always wear his Boston Bruins jacket around town with so much pride. he passed away not too long ago. Tubby was from Strasbourg, like me, like my dad. Eddie was from Fort Qu'Appelle, I think, but he spent a lot of time in places like Cupar, Lipton, Dysart, and places like that near where I live. He is a legend around my hometown.

Now, maybe you are referring to Eddie Shack, and not Eddie Shore. I kind of think you mean Shack because Shack was more well-known for his theatrics. Eddie Shore was known for basically being the toughest SOB that ever lived.

By the way, I also met Eddie Shack and hung out with him a bit at after a charity game he played with the Habs oldtimers several years back. That was the same night I hung out in the dressing room after the game with Maurice and Henri Richard. My dad was manager of the rink the game was played in, so I got to hang out, get stuff signed, and talk about old time hockey. One of the best nights of my life.

The point is, while guys like you sit at a computer and pretend to know what you are talking about, others truly are deeply rooted in the game. Be careful who you preach to about hockey history, that's all I am saying.

But you can think whatever you like. This is a message board, and you have the right to an inaccurate opinion, I suppose.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:21 PM
  #65
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In the past, I could say that East Europeans dived more and much less Westerners, but today everybody dives. The only difference is that Canadians are more subtle and sneaky, but they do dive. East Europeans are not worse, they just sometime exaggerate too much making their dives too obvious. Basically, the Canadians are better actors than the Russians and the Czechs.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:31 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
In the past, I could say that East Europeans dived more and much less Westerners, but today everybody dives. The only difference is that Canadians are more subtle and sneaky, but they do dive. East Europeans are not worse, they just sometime exaggerate too much making their dives too obvious. Basically, the Canadians are better actors than the Russians and the Czechs.
No this isn't correct. Europeans do still dive far more...it's like soccer now. Everyone dives, but Brazil and Italy dive far more than England.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck21t View Post
In the past, I could say that East Europeans dived more and much less Westerners, but today everybody dives. The only difference is that Canadians are more subtle and sneaky, but they do dive. East Europeans are not worse, they just sometime exaggerate too much making their dives too obvious. Basically, the Canadians are better actors than the Russians and the Czechs.
What are you even talking about?

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:36 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
whenever diving comes up on these boards i always wonder how many of those giving opinions have ever played hockey.

i play div 1 mens hockey at burnaby 8 rinks and every single player on our team would rather die than dive. the same goes for each team we play.

throughout my time playing junior hockey every single player on my team would rather die than dive.

believe it or not, there are times when what apears top be a dive is really a caught edge, or a slight off balance resulting in the player falling.. which at the NHL level turns into thread after thread about that player diving.

there is no question in my mind that most (generally speaking) canadian players who have come up the ranks through triple a then junior a etc etc have the canadian hockey culture of being tough and not diving branded on their skull - for the most part they truly would rather die than dive.
Good post. I repeatedly see players get called out for diving who clearly aren't guilty. I've known some pretty competitive players who always push themselves to the edge. You can have the best balance and be a great skater, but if there is a size mismatch and you are pushing around someone at top speed, you are likely leaning more heavily on them. You can lose an edge or have them shift your balance quickly and it will seem like you went down easy, when really it isn't the case. There are other reasons for going down too. Fatigue is sometimes the easiest answer.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:41 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
The only reason I am quoting this is so that later on I can find the most outrageous post I have ever read and have another good laugh.

My dad actually knew Eddie Shore and his family. Tubby Shore was a really good friend of my dad's, in fact. He would always wear his Boston Bruins jacket around town with so much pride. he passed away not too long ago. Tubby was from Strasbourg, like me, like my dad. Eddie was from Fort Qu'Appelle, I think, but he spent a lot of time in places like Cupar, Lipton, Dysart, and places like that near where I live. He is a legend around my hometown.

Now, maybe you are referring to Eddie Shack, and not Eddie Shore. I kind of think you mean Shack because Shack was more well-known for his theatrics. Eddie Shore was known for basically being the toughest SOB that ever lived.

By the way, I also met Eddie Shack and hung out with him a bit at after a charity game he played with the Habs oldtimers several years back. That was the same night I hung out in the dressing room after the game with Maurice and Henri Richard. My dad was manager of the rink the game was played in, so I got to hang out, get stuff signed, and talk about old time hockey. One of the best nights of my life.

The point is, while guys like you sit at a computer and pretend to know what you are talking about, others truly are deeply rooted in the game. Be careful who you preach to about hockey history, that's all I am saying.

But you can think whatever you like. This is a message board, and you have the right to an inaccurate opinion, I suppose.

If I recall correctly, there's an old thread on the history board discussing Shore's theatrics.



This is from Eddie Shore and That old time Hockey. By C. Michael Haim:

Also, by every account, Shore was not above a little theatrics.
Smeaton knew Shore and his little 'acts', and they afforded the big Bruin zero leway. Press reports from the era seem to have Shore forever "writhing" in pain on the ice, only to recover miraculously moments later to regain his "zip". While fortitude and smelling salts accounted for many of Shore's speedy recuperations, this was not always the case. "Shore was a very colorful hockey player", Fredrickson explained, "who put everything he had into the game but also used every subterfuge he could to win the sympathy of the crowd. He'd fake getting hurt and would lay down and roll around in agony. Then he'd get up and be twice as good as ever.



http://books.google.com/books?id=ISD...ed=0CDEQ6AEwAA


Perhaps you'd like me to online research some old articles that verify the above?

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:41 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
whenever diving comes up on these boards i always wonder how many of those giving opinions have ever played hockey.

i play div 1 mens hockey at burnaby 8 rinks and every single player on our team would rather die than dive. the same goes for each team we play.

throughout my time playing junior hockey every single player on my team would rather die than dive.

believe it or not, there are times when what apears top be a dive is really a caught edge, or a slight off balance resulting in the player falling.. which at the NHL level turns into thread after thread about that player diving.

there is no question in my mind that most (generally speaking) canadian players who have come up the ranks through triple a then junior a etc etc have the canadian hockey culture of being tough and not diving branded on their skull - for the most part they truly would rather die than dive.
This is a fantastic post, and as a former player, I think the same thing.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:42 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I take diving over injuring opposing players any day. You can dive all you want
Injuring opposing players intentionally doesn't belong in sports and it's beyond me how anybody can embrace it. However, diving doesn't belong in sports either and it's sickening to see somebody say "you can dive all you want".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Seriously? Wow. Just wow.
Every athlete is supposed to be better than that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
My dad actually knew Eddie Shore and his family. Tubby Shore was a really good friend of my dad's, in fact. He would always wear his Boston Bruins jacket around town with so much pride. he passed away not too long ago. Tubby was from Strasbourg, like me, like my dad. Eddie was from Fort Qu'Appelle, I think, but he spent a lot of time in places like Cupar, Lipton, Dysart, and places like that near where I live. He is a legend around my hometown.
So you have personally met Eddie Shore and he came across as a straight guy - and that's your argument/proof/whatever that he didn't dive? Seriously?

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:42 PM
  #72
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What they should have stated:

Canada's players insist they will not target heads or misuse their stick even though the referees at the world junior hockey championship seem to be susceptible to such moves.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:43 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
This is a fantastic post, and as a former player, I think the same thing.
Agreed, but not all players see it the same way, including Canadians. I find either you're a diver or you aren't though.

I was once going for the puck with the defender beside me and I lost my edge in the corner... resulted in a tripping penalty and a diving penalty on me all because I lost my edge.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:45 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
What are you even talking about?
I'm talking about what I see on TV and my eyes are seeing Canadians diving almost as much as others.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:45 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
I take diving over injuring opposing players any day. You can dive all you want, but if you deliberately injure the opposition you deserve to be given a two-hander with a stick across your face and disqualified.
So diving is OK because it's a victimless crime?

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