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When does Burke go all in like AA?

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12-29-2012, 07:48 PM
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SoulAssassin
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When does Burke go all in like AA?

... Burkie go all-in like AA, throwing caution to the win, trading the guys we say are "untouchables", trading guys we all overvalue, making the big splash?

No one in a Leaf uniform should be untouchable. Any guy who can be packaged to bring in an upgrade can be gone. Add and drive on Burke, your fan base deserves it.

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12-29-2012, 07:51 PM
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Auzzie19
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honestly, I see him being fired if Leafs are bottom 10 again. Everyone knows him and his style of dealing We need someone fresh.

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12-29-2012, 07:52 PM
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Damn salary cap.

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12-29-2012, 07:54 PM
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Baseball trades do not equate to hockey trades. Salary Cap is one thing. Not trading draft picks in the MLB is another. Tons more factors. If the NHL was like the MLB, Burke would have likely done it already, and if the MLB were like the NHL, AA would not have been able to pull this robbery off.

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12-29-2012, 07:55 PM
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Bomber0104
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honestly, I see him being fired if Leafs are bottom 10 again. Everyone knows him and his style of dealing We need someone fresh.
Agreed.

He made his bed.

Now sleep in it.

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12-29-2012, 07:56 PM
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4evaBlue
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Damn salary cap.
Seems to be a foreign concept to some around here.

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12-29-2012, 07:57 PM
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SoulAssassin
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Its possible to make trades, even within the salary cap. LA and Boston are two good examples of teams stacked deep. Its about better managing salaries and evaluating player talent.

Grabo isnt bad, but for $5M Id take the cap space over him any day. He could have garnered you some value at the trade deadline last year.

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12-29-2012, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Damn salary cap.
pretty much on the money; pun intended.

can't compare hockey with baseball.... like apples and cabbages.

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12-29-2012, 08:01 PM
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p.l.f.
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all BB needs to do is trade for luongo getzlaf and ryan

lupul getzlaf kessel
ryan grabovsky kulemin

theoretically BB could trade jvr frattin kadri colborne bozak 2 etc since they wouldnt be needed so much other than as 3rd liners - throw in a few 1st rd picks - waive 16 million god willing (connolly lombardi komisarek mccarthur.....

whatever it takes

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12-29-2012, 08:09 PM
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Bomber0104
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all BB needs to do is trade for luongo getzlaf and ryan
So taking away from the Leafs of present and future to get those present assets helps the team how?

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12-29-2012, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Grabo isnt bad, but for $5M Id take the cap space over him any day. He could have garnered you some value at the trade deadline last year.
Actually the cap hit for Grabovski is $5.5 million. However even if he didn't sign that extension then how do we know Burke doesn't aquire someone else making the same or even more. So what's the point of having cap space if the money won't be spent on players?

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12-29-2012, 08:14 PM
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The Jays had the #2 ranked farm system in baseball. They were stacked. The Leafs aren't in that position right now.

The thing the Leafs can do is spend lots of money. They have a ton of cap room coming up next summer. Burke should try to make some bold moves that way.

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12-29-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Its possible to make trades, even within the salary cap. LA and Boston are two good examples of teams stacked deep. Its about better managing salaries and evaluating player talent.

Grabo isnt bad, but for $5M Id take the cap space over him any day. He could have garnered you some value at the trade deadline last year.
How much cap space do we need? We need players. There's no guarantee you can spend that cap space. They have so much opening up next summer anyways. Detroit had so much cap space and couldn't spend it last summer.

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12-29-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
pretty much on the money; pun intended.

can't compare hockey with baseball.... like apples and cabbages.
Yup.

I would expect though that there will be possibly two decent sized deals out of the gate once they finally get going again.

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12-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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SoulAssassin
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
So taking away from the Leafs of present and future to get those present assets helps the team how?
Would Leaf fans be happier with:

a) exactly how its gone since 67

OR

b) giving up all the future for ONE Stanley Cup during the time period from 68-2012??

Its about winning the cup man. Win now, worry about the rest later. What better chance in a 48 game schedule?

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12-29-2012, 09:29 PM
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p.l.f.
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i think that would be a contending team for more than just one yr
as long as getzlaf ryan were re-signed)
3yrs at least

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12-29-2012, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Would Leaf fans be happier with:

a) exactly how its gone since 67

OR

b) giving up all the future for ONE Stanley Cup during the time period from 68-2012??

Its about winning the cup man. Win now, worry about the rest later. What better chance in a 48 game schedule?
We're not deep enough anywhere to compete right now.


The Jays situation was perfect for them to make this splash. The Yankees are old and slowing down, the Red Sox are coming off an extremely poor season and aren't poised to be much of a factor, and the Rays are retooling a bit. Baltimore's....who knows. It's the time to go for it. The Jays shouldve been a borderline playoff team last year, but injuries destroyed us.


The Leafs aren't there yet. We need almost an entire new roster to compete with the Pittsburgh's, Rangers, Bruins of the East.

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12-29-2012, 09:29 PM
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The Apologist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Its possible to make trades, even within the salary cap. LA and Boston are two good examples of teams stacked deep. Its about better managing salaries and evaluating player talent.

Grabo isnt bad, but for $5M Id take the cap space over him any day. He could have garnered you some value at the trade deadline last year.
Grabbo is exactly what 5m gets you today. What would you use that cap space for? Why trade him unless you have someone else to fill the gap?

To answer the original question, when the NHL eliminates the cap. Are we really comparing the NHL to MLB now?

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12-29-2012, 09:33 PM
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Bomber0104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Would Leaf fans be happier with:

a) exactly how its gone since 67

OR

b) giving up all the future for ONE Stanley Cup during the time period from 68-2012??

Its about winning the cup man. Win now, worry about the rest later. What better chance in a 48 game schedule?
If we are guaranteed to win the CUp you take it every time.

There's no scenario that wins the Leafs the Cup now or anytime soon.

Not even worth talking about. Just makes me sad.

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12-29-2012, 09:39 PM
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Kyle Doobas
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Originally Posted by Auzzie19 View Post
honestly, I see him being fired if Leafs are bottom 10 again. Everyone knows him and his style of dealing We need someone fresh.
Couldn't disagree more. The last thing the Leafs need now is another change of direction.

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12-29-2012, 09:43 PM
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Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Couldn't disagree more. The last thing the Leafs need now is another change of direction.
So doesn't matter how bad the Leafs do year in year out.. just keep the same guys who keep getting us the same **** results...


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12-29-2012, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Jays had the #2 ranked farm system in baseball. They were stacked. The Leafs aren't in that position right now.

The thing the Leafs can do is spend lots of money. They have a ton of cap room coming up next summer. Burke should try to make some bold moves that way.
Many teams have a lot of cap space next year and everyone has the same cap and next year even more money will be going for Leafs' fans pockets to the competition to help fund the acquisition of free agents.

Leafs don't have the same prospect depth as some teams.

Leafs need to decide whether they want to continue the slow rebuild or if they want to spend some of their few prospects for a win now couple of assets.

At least they no longer have one of the most disliked coaches in charge, but they do have one that had issues with potential free agents.

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12-29-2012, 10:09 PM
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ULF_55
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Couldn't disagree more. The last thing the Leafs need now is another change of direction.
The last thing the Leafs fans need is someone who is not accountable.

What other franchise rewards continuous failure? Has there been a worse franchise since the implementation of the cap?

I think sometimes the franchise gets credit for the efforts of their fans.

The team has been garbage but the fans have been tremendous, and we should keep that fact straight.

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Old
12-29-2012, 10:10 PM
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Bomber0104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
The Jays had the #2 ranked farm system in baseball. They were stacked. The Leafs aren't in that position right now.

The thing the Leafs can do is spend lots of money. They have a ton of cap room coming up next summer. Burke should try to make some bold moves that way.
So are we to assume the Leafs are going to be smarter with their capspace than when they purchased:

Komisarek, Beauchemin, Orr, Exelby, Gustavsson, Bozak

and/or

Connolly, Lombardi, Steckel, Franson

You tell me?

That was a lot of money wasted.

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12-29-2012, 10:29 PM
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I posted what I thought would be the Leafs equivalent of the trade in one of the old threads a few days (weeks?) back. If I recall, it ended up being Nash (remember that the equivalent would be making these deals a few weeks after the championship was won), Johansen, Wisniewski and a couple others from Columbus for guys like Frattin, Ashton and MacArthur, signing Parise and then getting Ryan Smyth and Devin Dubnyk from the Oilers for Kadri and Blacker. In the end, we pretty much had Rielly, Colborne, Percy and Ross left from our top-10, and since the Leafs depth is not quite as good as the Jays, it means their prospect pool would be much more depleted than the Jays.

One thing I noticed immediately was that the other teams would be absolute fools to do the trades, not necessarily because the players weren't perfect matches (which they obviously were not), but because the difference in value between the top line established players and the fringe prospect players are much greater in hockey.

Of course, the best players (Ovechkin/Crosby/Lundqvist vs Pujols/Cabrera/Verlander) are probably as different from the fringe players in both leagues, but if you think of that second tier in baseball, guys like who the Jays got (Josh Johnson, Jose Reyes, etc) and try and compare them to similar players (in status/reputation, obviously) from the NHL (Kesler, Ryan, Sharp, etc), you generally are going to say the NHL players are more likely to be untouchable and will cost you serious value in return, while the MLB players might be movable for decent prospects that could be good but aren't certain to be.

The fact is, in the NHL, it's really hard to turn second-tier, borderline prospects into established top-end players. In the MLB, almost all trades are borderline prospects for established top-end players.

Of course, as mentioned quite early in this thread, the other obvious problem is the salary cap.

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