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Phoenix LXVII; Route66 - Aftermath

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:14 PM
  #251
Killion
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Originally Posted by htpwn View Post
This is an older interview, but was being replayed tonight on the FAN590.

"Personally, I don't think the NHL should be in Phoenix."
-- Former MLSE President and CEO Richard Peddie.
Gee, thanks Dickie. And as you apparently didnt want them (or any other team for that matter) in Hamilton we should care about your opinion, what you "think"? All well & good to voice your opinion, but as an insider & CEO (since retired, and good riddance) of the wealthiest team in the league where were you when leadership was required as both Phoenix & Atlanta unravelled like a pair of cheap suits?

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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
There is actually no rational explanation for withholding the identity of the ownership group if they are committed and have the financial wherewithal. I still think this deal gets done in Glendale, but I would not be at all surprised if we find out that Jamison's attempts to pull together the necessary capital has fallen short.
... well, lets see here Whileee;

1) One or more of his investors are controversial (Tohonos)?

2) He was/is required to secure the Lease & AMC, finalize the sale price & relevant documents with the NHL under orders of non-disclosure, the "Grand Reveal" forthcoming only after the ink dries & monies change hands in Glendale & NY?

3) He's still having difficulty securing enough investors to cover the leagues reported $170M price tag and the app 50% of the sale price in order to cover ongoing expenses & potential losses of $85M in liquidity & or credit as generally required by the NHL?

4) One or more of his investors are holding back, awaiting the outcome of the Lockout & CBA, hoping for a more favourable split in HRR's along with increased RS, without which they wont be participating, thus extending any closings until such time as they are?

5) He's well short of the asking price, let alone having the readies to cover expenses & losses moving forward, wont be able to secure said funds until sometime in the spring of 2013, a hard deadline issued by the NHL privately, and meanwhile because the agreement with the COG is time sensitive he's stringing it out in order to buy more time, have the blocks in place?

6) And before someone else comes up with a #6 or #7, as in "he doesnt have the money and this is all a charade", without providing a plausible reason for his having perpetrated such a conspiracy, just dont bother. Doesnt make any sense for him to have done so.

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12-29-2012, 12:33 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Gee, thanks Dickie. And as you apparently didnt want them (or any other team for that matter) in Hamilton we should care about your opinion, what you "think"? All well & good to voice your opinion, but as an insider & CEO (since retired, and good riddance) of the wealthiest team in the league where were you when leadership was required as both Phoenix & Atlanta unravelled like a pair of cheap suits?



... well, lets see here Whileee;

1) One or more of his investors are controversial (Tohonos)?

2) He was/is required to secure the Lease & AMC, finalize the sale price & relevant documents with the NHL under orders of non-disclosure, the "Grand Reveal" forthcoming only after the ink dries & monies change hands in Glendale & NY?

3) He's still having difficulty securing enough investors to cover the leagues reported $170M price tag and the app 50% of the sale price in order to cover ongoing expenses & potential losses of $85M in liquidity & or credit as generally required by the NHL?

4) One or more of his investors are holding back, awaiting the outcome of the Lockout & CBA, hoping for a more favourable split in HRR's along with increased RS, without which they wont be participating, thus extending any closings until such time as they are?

5) He's well short of the asking price, let alone having the readies to cover expenses & losses moving forward, wont be able to secure said funds until sometime in the spring of 2013, a hard deadline issued by the NHL privately, and meanwhile because the agreement with the COG is time sensitive he's stringing it out in order to buy more time, have the blocks in place?

6) And before someone else comes up with a #6 or #7, as in "he doesnt have the money and this is all a charade", without providing a plausible reason for his having perpetrated such a conspiracy, just dont bother. Doesnt make any sense for him to have done so.
My take is that Jamison has been sincerely trying to get this finished, but has had a very difficult time herding together a compatible and credible investment group. If he had a tight group of investors together already, I think he would have revealed them by now. I think he is probably still hopeful and maybe even optimistic, but I won't be surprised if we find out that his best efforts fell short.

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12-29-2012, 12:43 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by calmdown View Post
Do you mean:
1. This is from the city manager, and mayor Scruggs made him repeat and he confirm, you call that misspoke?.

2. Does courts can choose if they want to judge or not judge a matter brought to them?

3. A judge take in account economical matters in a case over the law facts?

Would be curious to listen to a couple lawers here about this
I don't think that anyone actually knows the GWI's disposition on this. I think it is a plausible theory that they have moved on and lack an abiding interest in challenging the Jamison lease. However, I think that they might also want to wait and see whether they need to act. Perhaps they have somehow calculated that Jamison's purchase bid will fall short, in which case they would be wasting time, money and political capital to challenge the lease.

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12-29-2012, 12:59 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post

3) He's still having difficulty securing enough investors to cover the leagues reported $170M price tag and the app 50% of the sale price in order to cover ongoing expenses & potential losses of $85M in liquidity & or credit as generally required by the NHL? 4) One or more of his investors are holding back, awaiting the outcome of the Lockout & CBA, hoping for a more favourable split in HRR's along with increased RS, without which they wont be participating, thus extending any closings until such time as they are?

6) And before someone else comes up with a #6 or #7, as in "he doesnt have the money and this is all a charade", without providing a plausible reason for his having perpetrated such a conspiracy, just dont bother. Doesnt make any sense for him to have done so.
I view 3 & 4 as the same issue and, to me, it has the highest probability of where the transaction currently resides (and likely where it has resided for about a year now). I also appreciate your position on 6. The idea that this is all some charade orcastrated by Bettman and Jamison is one of the most profoundly idiotic things I have ever read.

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12-29-2012, 01:15 PM
  #255
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The law states too excessive, and it wouldn't be the 1st time someone from the CofG misspoke and didn't account for all the costs that the Arena Manager has to spend to run every facet of all operations. I would expect more usage out of the arena than when the league owned it, so the cost will be more. GWI will not pursue it in court. It is too risky and the courts wouldn't want to judge what is too excessive. Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena. GWI will not risk losing in court, they can't afford it while pursuing other objectives. You give them too much credit.
That fire burned out a while ago...
I have to laugh every time someone brings up the idea that if the team were to leave there would be severe damage to the local economy! Lets see, the last Coyotes game was played in May, since that time there has been local commerce occurring at Westgate, less at Jobing! Yet last time I looked Jobing was still standing, most of the vendors at Westgate were still in business and the COG still had access to the $17MM they want to give away to GJ for very little in return. I thought all of the pro-Coyote folks predicted armageddon without the local team?

Bottom line: the city and its citizens will be far better off without the city having to spend an additional $300MM, they don`t have, to keep a team that will embarrass itself once again even if a new owner is stupid enough to overpay for an asset that has little value to its customers or the league in which it plays!

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12-29-2012, 02:13 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
GWI will not pursue it in court. It is too risky and the courts wouldn't want to judge what is too excessive. Not at the risk that if the team leaves it would do more damage to the economy of the area and the City still needs to pay off the cost of the arena. GWI will not risk losing in court, they can't afford it while pursuing other objectives. You give them too much credit.
That fire burned out a while ago...
Wow... At the end of the day, all the GWI did was "huff and puff". I never saw THAT coming.

What is really shocking (based on what I read today)...

Under the new proposal by the NHL (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong), ALL teams will be required to spend somewhere in the area of $60M towards the cap in the first year. Yikes!

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12-29-2012, 02:57 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Wow... At the end of the day, all the GWI did was "huff and puff". I never saw THAT coming.

What is really shocking (based on what I read today)...

Under the new proposal by the NHL (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong), ALL teams will be required to spend somewhere in the area of $60M towards the cap in the first year. Yikes!
KevyD, I think that GWI has not even really "huffed and puffed" on the Jamison deal. I speculate that either they have lost interest, or they don't take Jamison's bid all that seriously. As I recall, they didn't get all that worked up about the IEH efforts either.

By the way, are you still sticking with the prediction that the NHL will drop the sale price precipitously but announce a higher sale price? (I can't remember what list number that was). If so, Jamison must really be scraping the barrel for investors if he can't even pull together enough investment for a low purchase price.

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12-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by mesamonster View Post
I have to laugh every time someone brings up the idea that if the team were to leave there would be severe damage to the local economy! Lets see, the last Coyotes game was played in May, since that time there has been local commerce occurring at Westgate, less at Jobing! Yet last time I looked Jobing was still standing, most of the vendors at Westgate were still in business and the COG still had access to the $17MM they want to give away to GJ for very little in return. I thought all of the pro-Coyote folks predicted armageddon without the local team?

Bottom line: the city and its citizens will be far better off without the city having to spend an additional $300MM, they don`t have, to keep a team that will embarrass itself once again even if a new owner is stupid enough to overpay for an asset that has little value to its customers or the league in which it plays!
A big push has been Tanger Outlets. I live in the West Valley, and the closest stores of my interest are at Tanger. Coyotes games just help get the people into the bars and restaurants by the arena. Every time I go to a game(I usually try to attend 6 games a year, was living 2 hours away before this year), I go to dinner and a few drinks before the game, and the bars and restaurants are always packed. I don't know if it's $25 million a year, but they do provide a boost for sure. If there was an owner that could bring in more people, more events, etc., the area could be better off down the road. It might not be an immediate effect, but down the road it could be a positive.

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12-29-2012, 03:03 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
KevyD, I think that GWI has not even really "huffed and puffed" on the Jamison deal. I speculate that either they have lost interest, or they don't take Jamison's bid all that seriously. As I recall, they didn't get all that worked up about the IEH efforts either.

By the way, are you still sticking with the prediction that the NHL will drop the sale price precipitously but announce a higher sale price? (I can't remember what list number that was). If so, Jamison must really be scraping the barrel for investors if he can't even pull together enough investment for a low purchase price.
I stand by it all.

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12-29-2012, 03:08 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Whileee View Post
KevyD, I think that GWI has not even really "huffed and puffed" on the Jamison deal. I speculate that either they have lost interest, or they don't take Jamison's bid all that seriously. As I recall, they didn't get all that worked up about the IEH efforts either.
... well, cant say much, but I can pretty much assure you you'd be wrong with that speculation my friend. Yes indeedy. On very good authority that they'll not be idling in the driveway over this one. No Siree Bob.

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12-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #261
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... well, cant say much, but I can pretty much assure you you'd be wrong with that speculation my friend. Yes indeedy. On very good authority that they'll not be idling in the driveway over this one. No Siree Bob.
Do you have a link? I've emailed and tweeted to GWI with no response.

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12-29-2012, 04:01 PM
  #262
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Do you have a link? I've emailed and tweeted to GWI with no response.
Nope. No link. No pictures. No proof.... take it or leave it,
not sellin anything, but ya, sources beyond solid.

... oh, and they likely wont respond to anyone with a Canadian
IP address (unless accredited media), so dont waste your time.

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12-29-2012, 04:29 PM
  #263
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Nope. No link. No pictures. No proof.... take it or leave it,
not sellin anything, but ya, sources beyond solid.

... oh, and they likely wont respond to anyone with a Canadian
IP address (unless accredited media), so dont waste your time.
I go back and forth between the states and Canada. My Twitter profile doesn't say Canada and my yahoo address is .com not .ca. This isn't Joyce Clark, Goldwater has fans in Canada. Even though we may disagree on everything else, on this issue we are united.

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12-29-2012, 06:09 PM
  #264
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... well, cant say much, but I can pretty much assure you you'd be wrong with that speculation my friend. Yes indeedy. On very good authority that they'll not be idling in the driveway over this one. No Siree Bob.
I have been wondering whether they've been idling and keeping their powder dry in case the Jamison deal falls flat on its own. But there is a deep well of bitterness between the GWI and the COG, so walking away without firing so much as firing a shot across the bow would be quite inconsistent with their previous actions and rhetoric. The fact that Jamison's lease agreement is coupled with tax increases and future cuts to police and fire protection should be red meat for the likes of the GWI as well.

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12-29-2012, 06:17 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by KevyD View Post
Wow... At the end of the day, all the GWI did was "huff and puff". I never saw THAT coming.

What is really shocking (based on what I read today)...

Under the new proposal by the NHL (and feel free to correct me if I am wrong), ALL teams will be required to spend somewhere in the area of $60M towards the cap in the first year. Yikes!
At the end of the day? GWI still have an open contempt case against the City (IIRC) and they've no executed lease to show that the City has given the money away yet; none of that really qualifies as end of day circumstances. Seems more like a work in progress in fact.

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12-29-2012, 06:20 PM
  #266
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The fact that Jamison's lease agreement is coupled with tax increases and future cuts to police and fire protection should be red meat for the likes of the GWI as well.
All I can really say is that their quite deliberately laying low, burnishing their knives on a whetstone by the light of the Moon when everyones asleep or otherwise awake, blithe to the pending storm. It would serve no purpose at this time to telegraph their intentions, as accusations of interference, more rotten peaches from the GWI would harm rather than help their "cause" at this particular moment in time. Better they should just wait for the mouse to take the cheese... if even capable.

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12-29-2012, 06:45 PM
  #267
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Peddle's a good reason why the Leafs haven't made the playoffs in a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Peddie
sounds like it's more about money than about the product on the ice.
Personally, I don't think that MLSE are true to their fans!
Cool, but you fail to address the actual topic at hand.

Here we have an insider who is talking openly about the troubles of the Coyotes. That is fairly significant, is it not? Even if you do not want to hear what is being said?

This a man who served as a Governor at the NHL for over a decade, who served on the Executive Committee (if I'm not mistaken), who surely has a close relationship with NHL leadership and other Governors, yet has no idea what the league is doing in Phoenix. He not only disagrees with the NHL's position of keeping the team where it is, he doesn't even understand it (aside from "Commissioners do not like to move teams"). The interview makes this whole fiasco come across as Bettman's pet project, unchecked by ownership.

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12-29-2012, 06:59 PM
  #268
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Would be curious to listen to a couple lawers here about this
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Originally Posted by CasualFan View Post
I doubt that you'll find one who cares enough to correct all of the inaccuracies. Besides, whats the probability that the original poster is formative enough to even comprehend the actual mechanics? 0%?
Well he did use the sarcasm smiley...

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12-29-2012, 08:16 PM
  #269
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Well he did use the sarcasm smiley...
Yeah, but I'm slow. And I've been naive enough to assume a level of discourse :highfive:

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12-29-2012, 09:51 PM
  #270
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All I can really say is that their quite deliberately laying low, burnishing their knives on a whetstone by the light of the Moon when everyones asleep or otherwise awake, blithe to the pending storm. It would serve no purpose at this time to telegraph their intentions, as accusations of interference, more rotten peaches from the GWI would harm rather than help their "cause" at this particular moment in time. Better they should just wait for the mouse to take the cheese... if even capable.
We could all say something along those lines. The question is how are you coming upon this information. Is it speculation? Do you know someone in or close to Goldwater? Or did you read this somewhere?

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12-29-2012, 10:49 PM
  #271
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All I can really say is that their quite deliberately laying low, burnishing their knives on a whetstone by the light of the Moon when everyones asleep or otherwise awake, blithe to the pending storm. It would serve no purpose at this time to telegraph their intentions, as accusations of interference, more rotten peaches from the GWI would harm rather than help their "cause" at this particular moment in time. Better they should just wait for the mouse to take the cheese... if even capable.
GWI doesnt need to brandish its sword, most people forgot that the pre-signature suit last go round was pre-mature, with some strong dicta indicating the lease agreement was as kosher as bacon and hot dogs (pigs' lips and *******s varietal)

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12-29-2012, 11:02 PM
  #272
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We could all say something along those lines. The question is how are you coming upon this information. Is it speculation? Do you know someone in or close to Goldwater? Or did you read this somewhere?
It's called legal judgment, what lawyers are paid big bucks for. If you want some insight, sacrifice your social life for 4 yrs, pay a quarter mil, prepare to read till your eyeballs fall out and be ready for classes where 1 test is your whole grade....then be ready for the summer after, 16 hrs a day studying for a test that will only cover 5% of what youve studied.

K.

Read the decision after the hulsizer debacle, you will know why.

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12-29-2012, 11:09 PM
  #273
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It's called legal judgment, what lawyers are paid big bucks for.
Bingo... manisback.

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12-29-2012, 11:17 PM
  #274
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Bingo... manisback.
If we asked a judge repeatedly for the same relief saying "its for the public" we surely would be sore and probably blow some appellate deadline.

I hate idiots who think nothing because mouths are shut, but dont realize **** is going on behind the scenes, especially when a judge said it was too early last time and said it would likely fail if indeed the city went forward.

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12-29-2012, 11:24 PM
  #275
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... especially when a judge said it was too early last time and said it would likely fail if indeed the city went forward.
GWI got bit last time around. They wont make the same mistake twice.

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