The Business of HockeyDiscuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Franchise sales, valuations, TV contracts, ratings, expansion, relocation, the CBA and work stoppage discussion goes here.
Toronto will be a serious relocation candidate when they have a stadium, but I just don't think it will be the Bills. I think there are multiple American cities ahead of them, though, and that's not even counting LA (which is inevitable). I think you'd see San Antonio and Orlando ahead of them, to be honest.
Tom Golisano and Terry Pegula have both said they'd pull a Paul Allen and buy the Bills (if the price was right, of course) out of a sense of civic responsibility. I have no reason to doubt either of them.
Nobody here is going to build a stadium to gamble on football. It cost half a billion to build Rogers. There is noway they will do it again.
Toronto will be a serious relocation candidate when they have a stadium, but I just don't think it will be the Bills. I think there are multiple American cities ahead of them, though, and that's not even counting LA (which is inevitable). I think you'd see San Antonio and Orlando ahead of them, to be honest.
Tom Golisano and Terry Pegula have both said they'd pull a Paul Allen and buy the Bills (if the price was right, of course) out of a sense of civic responsibility. I have no reason to doubt either of them.
Just can't see a situation where a team will relocate tbh. With everyone splitting what 9 billion now, you'd have to be really bad at running a team to lose money.
The Jags would of been a likely candidate to move,or so I thought. but a new owner quickly bought them and are staying
In no way do I see the Bills moving ever and SO is Buffalo territory.. Personally I don't think the NFL wants a team in Canada. They certainly don't need one here.
Just can't see a situation where a team will relocate tbh. With everyone splitting what 9 billion now, you'd have to be really bad at running a team to lose money.
The Jags would of been a likely candidate to move,or so I thought. but a new owner quickly bought them and are staying
In no way do I see the Bills moving ever and SO is Buffalo territory.. Personally I don't think the NFL wants a team in Canada. They certainly don't need one here.
Put them intouch with Gary, you know grow the game and all. So they lose a few billion on Toronto over the next 20 years. No big deal think of the bigger picture.
the Skydome... without the hotel has a capacity of over 65-70K. Build the Jays a new stadium.. and convert the Skydome into a football only venue is one way of doing it. An interesting * though is the land the skydome sits on is prolly worth over 300m + in the cities current market.
the Skydome... without the hotel has a capacity of over 65-70K. Build the Jays a new stadium.. and convert the Skydome into a football only venue is one way of doing it. An interesting * though is the land the skydome sits on is prolly worth over 300m + in the cities current market.
Currently Skydome has approx 95 guaranteed events per year in the form of 85 (regular+preseason) MLB games and 10 (regular+preseason) CFL games. That's 26% of the year booked, before you start counting "them Idol shows that kids like". Cut that down to 10 NFL games per year, and it'll become a financial black hole.
the Skydome... without the hotel has a capacity of over 65-70K. Build the Jays a new stadium.. and convert the Skydome into a football only venue is one way of doing it. An interesting * though is the land the skydome sits on is prolly worth over 300m + in the cities current market.
The play is real simple.
If an NFL team is coming to Toronto, you rip out the hotel to build some cheap seats. Both teams play in the Skydome, and the new seats would only be sellable for football games.... similar to how the Argos block off sections to try and concentrate the crowd.
Bro seriously? Hockey can be deduced to fighting and catering to those with add, do you want to go there. Do you even like other sports?
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch
He has the right to his opinion
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch
None at all...I was just saying people are entitled to what they like.
Ringmaster316 could have quite easily said "too bad i wanted the bills to go to Toronto" and left it at that. It's one thing to like what you like and quite another to like what you like and then express disdain for something tangentially related.
If he has the right to express his hope that the CFL is killed off then so too do people who want to call him out on being a d-bag for bringing it up in the first place in a thread that had nothing to do with the CFL until he opened his gob.
Just curious but do basketball fans all over canada cheer mostly for the Raptors since they are Canada's only NBA team. I just can't see the NFL in Toronto as a gamble. To me its a sure bet. Just build an outdoor baseball stadium and turn the skydome into a football stadium.
Basketball fans in Canada? Speaking as someone from outside of Toronto: most people I know couldn't care less about basketball at all, let alone the Raptors in particular. Same with baseball and the Blue Jays.
the Skydome... without the hotel has a capacity of over 65-70K. Build the Jays a new stadium.. and convert the Skydome into a football only venue is one way of doing it. An interesting * though is the land the skydome sits on is prolly worth over 300m + in the cities current market.
There's no real proof you could sandwich an extra 10,000 seats in the 500 level to get to 65,000. More likely you could only add a couple thousand seats. The lower levels in the outfield (200 and 300 level) would be used for restaurants or more private boxes so they wouldn't rip those out for more seats.
Anyways, it would just mean more obstructed seats in all probability. The hotel is so close to the field that if you converted it to seats it you would not be able to see the nearest endzone at all (maybe even more than that). There are already thousands of obstructed seats in the stadium. Getting rid of the hotel to add more obstructed seats is a non-starter.
Just curious but do basketball fans all over canada cheer mostly for the Raptors since they are Canada's only NBA team. I just can't see the NFL in Toronto as a gamble. To me its a sure bet. Just build an outdoor baseball stadium and turn the skydome into a football stadium.
For the first bolded, it's doubtful Rogers would contribute a significant amount to a new baseball stadium, say $300 - $400 million to a probable $400 to $500 million stadium. Government won't contribute much if anything at all.
As for Rogers Centre, there are too many obstructed seats and the facility is too small to transform into an adequate NFL stadium. Let's say they tried. They would have to spend several hundreds of millions of dollars to completely gut the facility to make it NFL-friendly. Even then, it's unlikely it would work. It's just too small. It would be like the Phoenix Coyotes staying at their old arena in downtown Phoenix by trying to convert a basketball-only facility (with the small building footprint to go with it) into a hockey facility with no obstructed seats. Too impractical.
Basketball fans in Canada? Speaking as someone from outside of Toronto: most people I know couldn't care less about basketball at all, let alone the Raptors in particular. Same with baseball and the Blue Jays.
Very few people outside of the GTA care about the Raptors. However, quite a few people in Canada follow the Blue Jays despite 19 years without a sniff of the playoffs.
Blue Jays have a very small loyal fanbase across Canada nothing big.
If you find any Basketball fans most of them are Lakers fans.
Blue Jays averaged over 500,000 viewers per game on Sportsnet in 2011. I'm pretty confident a large portion of that is outside the GTA. Considering there are 162 games a year (and I believe all are televised) and not every Canadian subscribes to Sportsnet and Sportnet 1, those are pretty solid numbers.
Very few people outside of the GTA care about the Raptors. However, quite a few people in Canada follow the Blue Jays despite 19 years without a sniff of the playoffs.
Anecdotally, that sounds about right from my experience too. The Jays have had a pretty small but loyal fanbase, but recent events have made people more excited about the Jays that they've been in years. Baseball in general has been experiencing a bit of a comeback in Canada from what I've seen.
Basketball is still pretty niche, especially the NBA. March Madness is usually bigger from what I've seen.
Put them intouch with Gary, you know grow the game and all. So they lose a few billion on Toronto over the next 20 years. No big deal think of the bigger picture.
NFL isn't a gamble in Toronto. Tons of NFL fans there. It's a guaranteed success. There's no need to grow the game, the fans are already there.
... sitting at home, watching other NFL games on TV while a live game is being played at Rogers Centre in front of a relatively small crowd, many of whom are there because they got freebie tickets.
For the first bolded, it's doubtful Rogers would contribute a significant amount to a new baseball stadium, say $300 - $400 million to a probable $400 to $500 million stadium. Government won't contribute much if anything at all.
As for Rogers Centre, there are too many obstructed seats and the facility is too small to transform into an adequate NFL stadium. Let's say they tried. They would have to spend several hundreds of millions of dollars to completely gut the facility to make it NFL-friendly. Even then, it's unlikely it would work. It's just too small. It would be like the Phoenix Coyotes staying at their old arena in downtown Phoenix by trying to convert a basketball-only facility (with the small building footprint to go with it) into a hockey facility with no obstructed seats. Too impractical.
Rogers can ditch the roof and build it for 250 million
Very few people outside of the GTA care about the Raptors. However, quite a few people in Canada follow the Blue Jays despite 19 years without a sniff of the playoffs.
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Originally Posted by blueandgoldguy
Blue Jays averaged over 500,000 viewers per game on Sportsnet in 2011. I'm pretty confident a large portion of that is outside the GTA. Considering there are 162 games a year (and I believe all are televised) and not every Canadian subscribes to Sportsnet and Sportnet 1, those are pretty solid numbers.
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Originally Posted by Brodie
let's all generalize the views of 30 million people based on that infallible ALL MAH BROS logic
I have to both agree/disagree. Jays have decent ratings, majority of that is the GTA. One of the things I like about Toronto is that we got the teams here in the big boy leagues. Other places don't have that.
NFL isn't a gamble in Toronto. Tons of NFL fans there. It's a guaranteed success. There's no need to grow the game, the fans are already there.
Were you at the Bills game? I was and I'm not a fan, the same can be said for the person I was with. Our tickets were free as were many others around us. Imagine how few there were that actually paid. The stadium was maybe 75% filled.
Our row even got a free Bills toque. 24.95 value. So it was sort of worth attending afterall.
Were you at the Bills game? I was and I'm not a fan, the same can be said for the person I was with. Our tickets were free as were many others around us. Imagine how few there were that actually paid. The stadium was maybe 75% filled.
Our row even got a free Bills toque. 24.95 value. So it was sort of worth attending afterall.
The Bills aren't Toronto's team. Toronto considers itself in a class above Buffalo. It's the biggest, most powerful, most important city in Canada. Buffalo isn't the most important city in it's own state.
If the Bills relocated to Toronto and became the Toronto Bills (or something else) -- fan interest would explode overnight.
It'd be like if the San Diego Chargers had a deal to play some games in LA. LA considers itself above San Diego. LA wants its own team, not the scraps from a smaller, lesser city.
What's holding up an NFL team in Toronto is politics -- not economics or fan interest. An NFL team in Toronto is a mortal threat to the CFL. Toronto would benefit but the rest of Canada would suffer -- at least that's what they fear.
The Bills aren't Toronto's team. Toronto considers itself in a class above Buffalo. It's the biggest, most powerful, most important city in Canada. Buffalo isn't the most important city in it's own state.
If the Bills relocated to Toronto and became the Toronto Bills (or something else) -- fan interest would explode overnight.
It'd be like if the San Diego Chargers had a deal to play some games in LA. LA considers itself above San Diego. LA wants its own team, not the scraps from a smaller, lesser city.
What's holding up an NFL team in Toronto is politics -- not economics or fan interest. An NFL team in Toronto is a mortal threat to the CFL. Toronto would benefit but the rest of Canada would suffer -- at least that's what they fear.
Overnight I agree it would explode. However, two years down the road when they're still playing at Rogers Center with no atmosphere, nowhere to tailgate, and have yet to make playoffs, fan interest would dwindle.
I disagree with you, economics is most certainly what is holding up an NFL team in Toronto. Who will pay for a multi-million, if not billion, dollar stadium (with only 8 home games a year)? Who is going to own and pay the expansion/relocation fee? how many viewers in the States are going to tune into the Toronto games (ie: take for example the Blue Jays and Raptors viewership south of the border). CFL viewership would still be more than NFL, even if Toronto did get a team.
Not to mention the untapped markets in LA and Mexico City
Overnight I agree it would explode. However, two years down the road when they're still playing at Rogers Center with no atmosphere, nowhere to tailgate, and have yet to make playoffs, fan interest would dwindle.
I disagree with you, economics is most certainly what is holding up an NFL team in Toronto. Who will pay for a multi-million, if not billion, dollar stadium (with only 8 home games a year)? Who is going to own and pay the expansion/relocation fee? how many viewers in the States are going to tune into the Toronto games (ie: take for example the Blue Jays and Raptors viewership south of the border). CFL viewership would still be more than NFL, even if Toronto did get a team.
Not to mention the untapped markets in LA and Mexico City
Exactly, Americans are more risk takers or maybe big spenders is a better term. Canadians are cautious and there is no way anybody is laying out money like Jerry Jones in Dallas. Canada just doesn't have the big spenders. The U S probably has a few hundred Billionaires. Canada has a few.
Cut that down to 10 NFL games per year, and it'll become a financial black hole.
